Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Equally frustrating is being offside at least once or twice despite having just come on.
Equally frustrating is being offside at least once or twice despite having just come on.The worst was the simple pass across the pitch to either Doyle or panzo and he played it to their right wing back. Utterly shocking from a professional footballer
I think a big problem is Robins reluctance to use his subs, which means that fringe players rarely get minutes, which is why we always look so disjointed when we make subs. Cardiff used all 5 of there's, we used 2.
Tonight Waghorn didn't play well, and I would have thrown Tavares on, but he needs more minutes to get used to the system and find some rhythm.
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As I’ve said before, he should have gone on loan in the summer. People go on like he’s 17 or 18 but in reality he’s going on 22 and has hardly played league football considering his age.But you can’t weaken the team on the pitch just to give him game time, if we get a few newbies in and Godden fit I’d loan him out to a division two outfit or even the non- league below that then a make a judgement in the summer
By the time Waghorn was his age he was a regular starter for Leicester. He’s had a decent career, he’d be more suited to League One now though.Waghorn is awful at least with Tav there is a bit of pace to get behind defenders.
I can't believe I'm reading all this. Tonight was not the night for Tav. He's ideal to bring on with his pace to get in behind tired defenders but tonight they sat so deep it wouldn't have been possible. The mistake imo when Waghorn came on was taking off Sheaf and pushing Allen back, it should have been a defender for 4 at the back and an extra man in the middle.
In the absence of O'Hare, and against a Cardiff team lacking confidence, I would have started Waghorn over Palmer last night so that Waghorn got much needed minutes and so that we had a decent attacking change up in midfield for the 2nd half.
Whether you think Waghorn is shit or not, he's one of very few senior professionals on our bench and unless this takeover happens and King has actually got some money to invest, or we sell Gyokeres early in the window and manage to bring 3 or 4 new faces in, we're going to have to use him.
I think Robins is going to have to have a long hard think about continuing with the box midfield too without O'Hare in it. Don't think Allen and Palmer will ever be consistently effective together in it.
In the absence of O'Hare, and against a Cardiff team lacking confidence, I would have started Waghorn over Palmer last night so that Waghorn got much needed minutes and so that we had a decent attacking change up in midfield for the 2nd half.
Whether you think Waghorn is shit or not, he's one of very few senior professionals on our bench and unless this takeover happens and King has actually got some money to invest, or we sell Gyokeres early in the window and manage to bring 3 or 4 new faces in, we're going to have to use him.
I think Robins is going to have to have a long hard think about continuing with the box midfield too without O'Hare in it. Don't think Allen and Palmer will ever be consistently effective together in it.
I think he is on the basis of his cost relative to his contribution on the pitchI mean he doesn't even make the top 10
Hughes cost a lot but did score 15 goalsHonestly, Waghorn has done worse for us than Cody, Beacon and Reid. Eastwood was better but he cost £££
Hughes cost a lot but did score 15 goals
Bit of a distorted view of the past few months. Godden and Gyokeres played 13 matches together got 13 points. The next 12 playing one striker 21 points.The way we started to win earlier in the season was to play with two strikers. Godden and Gyökeres. The problem is, unless you play Waghorn (or Tavares), we haven't got another striker at the moment.
We can win without COH, but I agree with you regarding the box. Continue to play it with Allen and Palmer and I can't see us getting anywhere.
Hughes to be fair was a lot better than waghorn. Even McDonald scored some goals.In no particular order
Lee Hughes
Tim Sherwood
Kevin Kyle
Leon McKenzie
Freddie Eastwood
Cody McDonald
Stuart Beavon
Kyel Reid
Chris Birchall
Arjan de Zeeuw
I could go on at some length but I think 10 is sufficient
Let’s try to put some context to Waghorn
Played the first 10 games or so last season, played his part in a great start alongside Gykores
2 months out with a shoulder injury
Badly affected by Covid
Only given cameo appearances off the bench
Cannot get a game upfront due to Gykores and Godden scoring regularly
This season
We play one upfront and that striker is the leagues top goalscorer leaving n9 opportunity to play upfront
6 weeks out with a hamstring injury
When given game time its 10 mins here and there playing in a number 10 role which isn’t his position
No doubt he has struggled but with such a stop start career here is it all his fault ?
Agree on this - some of the abuse he gets is unwarranted though.You're right about his start, I was impressed with him.
But its been down hill since then. I think covid really hit him badly.
I think we need to try and get rid and free up his wages but I doubt we'll be able to.
To be fair, Bidwell should have been there. The ball was the right one but Bidwell was out of position. It looked terrible though.The worst was the simple pass across the pitch to either Doyle or panzo and he played it to their right wing back. Utterly shocking from a professional footballer
Agree on this - some of the abuse he gets is unwarranted though.
He will be here until the end of the season and then move on.You're right about his start, I was impressed with him.
But its been down hill since then. I think covid really hit him badly.
I think we need to try and get rid and free up his wages but I doubt we'll be able to.
Waghorn has suffered with COVID and a series of long term injuries. Hughes was fully fit and cost us a net £2.5 million in the space of a season at a time when we were already heavily in debt.Hughes to be fair was a lot better than waghorn. Even McDonald scored some goals.
Waghorn has suffered with COVID and a series of long term injuries. Hughes was fully fit and cost us a net £2.5 million in the space of a season at a time when we were already heavily in debt.
McDonald scored 8 in 47 and cost a fair whack relative to what else we spent that season. Hilssner as I said elsewhere has cost us £750k over his contract and not played a single game.
It doesn't matter what Waghorn was like when he was in his early 20s. We have the current version and he has been disastrous. That pass to no one last night wasn't the play of a League 1 player. His atrocious appearance at Sheffield United wasn't either. Would be a very foolish League 1 team that took him on.By the time Waghorn was his age he was a regular starter for Leicester. He’s had a decent career, he’d be more suited to League One now though.
Except whichever game we try this in, most likely.I'd give Tavares a try in OHare's position, nothing to lose.
I don't know why Waghorn gets so much support compared yo players like Walker and Biamou. He has been hopeless. I didn't even think he was good at getting start of last season. He was seen as ok because the team was doing well but he scored one goal. People credited him for Gyokeres form but I think that was all due to Gyokeres himself and had nothing to do with Waghorn.Let’s try to put some context to Waghorn
Played the first 10 games or so last season, played his part in a great start alongside Gykores
2 months out with a shoulder injury
Badly affected by Covid
Only given cameo appearances off the bench
Cannot get a game upfront due to Gykores and Godden scoring regularly
This season
We play one upfront and that striker is the leagues top goalscorer leaving n9 opportunity to play upfront
6 weeks out with a hamstring injury
When given game time its 10 mins here and there playing in a number 10 role which isn’t his position
No doubt he has struggled but with such a stop start career here is it all his fault ?
i think its a case of trying to get value for money cos Waggy will be on some wedge just to sit out his contractWaghorn was shite. I too would like to see tavares given more minutes.
If he ain't good enough he ain't good enough but I don't get the sense robins has no faith in him full stop.
Waghorn hopefully get better with more minutes.
It annoys me how we always seem to lose our flow when we go 2 up tho. we shud be familiir with.
Bit of a distorted view of the past few months. Godden and Gyokeres played 13 matches together got 13 points. The next 12 playing one striker 21 points.
Hasn’t Godden got another 2 years left after this one?Waghorn and Walker have no future at the club that much seems obvious.
Assuming Gyokeres leaves in the summer we're going to need to sign 3 strikers before next season. Godden can have one more year as backup.
And Waghorn !At the moment imo Tavares ain’t good enough.
burroughsWho would you play in midfield instead of bidwell pal
Hasn’t Godden got another 2 years left after this one?
Very true. Waghorn does not need me to explain his poor play, he demonstrates it for all to see. You make the point well about his match fitness and learning his trade, but for me he must have his self confidence shot to pieces. To see Waghorn (and when fit - Walker) constantly put ahead of him, and go on and do nothing, must be soul destroying. If MR won't play him, he should go out on loan to prove himself. The comparison with Ponticelli is a bit unfair, as Jordan had quite a few opportunities before he was let go.I really think Taveres should have come on tonight instead of Waghorn. Since he has been here what has he done (or did MR think we would get a penalty eventually and better him than Vic?
As for Taveres, he may or may not make the cut, but unless you give him a go how do you know?
I thought tonight was the ideal time to bring him on.
Nothing was working against their 10 defensive players, so maybe try some pace to get behind them and cross to Vic to get a proper chance and score.
With Cardiff happy for a point it was the right time to try him and see if he really offers something different.
If it never worked fine, neither did Waghorn but he will be gone at the end of the season, Taveres could still be here so let's see what he offers to the team.
I know many will say the new Ponticelli, but until he has a chance how do we know?
5-10 mins here and there will show nothing (many players have been shit in training, but been great in game time), either give him a go or fuck him off so you don't destroy his career.
Tonight, Waghorn came on, what does he offer?
We don't play him in the U21's/U23's whatever it is now ( so how does he get match fit and continue to learn)?.
By sitting on the bench and never playing how will he get better, or us learn anything about him in a match situation?
no faith ?I know it's a mistake but what is snonfsith ? prob just me being dumb.
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