Waghorn..... (4 Viewers)

Skyblueweeman · Aug 13, 2021

shmmeee said:
I mean what if the team all dies in a horrible team bath incident?

I just think your highest paid player should be bringing something obvious to the first team. O’Hare was the first name on the team sheet last year and earned his status easily.

You're being silly with the whole team dieing.

We've got a pretty poor injury record and Hamer is partial to a disciplinary issue. We need depth all over - especially up top when we had both Walker and Godden out for quite a part of last season. Who knows how Walker will be affected by Long Covid or how Godden will come back from his foot injury.

Having an experienced man up top is far more preferable that someone who has little experience in this division and looked shy in front of goal (bar the odd screamer once every 20 games). I like Max, but those who say Waghorn isn't a good signing, need their heads read.

shmmeee · Aug 13, 2021

Skyblueweeman said:
You're being silly with the whole team dieing.

We've got a pretty poor injury record and Hamer is partial to a disciplinary issue. We need depth all over - especially up top when we had both Walker and Godden out for quite a part of last season. Who knows how Walker will be affected by Long Covid or how Godden will come back from his foot injury.

Having an experienced man up top is far more preferable that someone who has little experience in this division and looked shy in front of goal (bar the odd screamer once every 20 games). I like Max, but those who say Waghorn isn't a good signing, need their heads read.

You don’t pay your top earner for “depth” though. And I’m being no more silly than asking what if three players become unavailable.

For the cost of Waghorn we could’ve got a reserve striker and a backup CB, a position were actually short in as we can’t play a flat back four so currently have zero cover for three positions whereas we can and have played one up front and have four strikers before we get to kids.

Wel have to agree to disagree but I don’t see the sense in it for a team with a limited budget playing the systems we do.

Skyblueweeman · Aug 13, 2021

shmmeee said:
You don’t pay your top earner for “depth” though. And I’m being no more silly than asking what if three players become unavailable.

For the cost of Waghorn we could’ve got a reserve striker and a backup CB, a position were actually short in as we can’t play a flat back four so currently have zero cover for three positions whereas we can and have played one up front and have four strikers before we get to kids.

Wel have to agree to disagree but I don’t see the sense in it for a team with a limited budget playing the systems we do.

Is he the top earner??

You're right, we could've got a reserve striker...but what use is a reserve striker when we were crying out for experience last term when Walker and Godden were out injured. Back up CB I agree with.

I'm sure MR and his team saw the sense in it...they obviously know quite a bit more than the situation than you or I.

shmmeee · Aug 13, 2021

Skyblueweeman said:
Is he the top earner??

You're right, we could've got a reserve striker...but what use is a reserve striker when we were crying out for experience last term when Walker and Godden were out injured. Back up CB I agree with.

I'm sure MR and his team saw the sense in it...they obviously know quite a bit more than the situation than you or I.

That’s technically true but a very boring answer for a football forum

Rumours from Derby were they couldn’t keep him because of their wage constraint (which I believe is £11.5k/wk) and there’s been rumours this end he’s become the highest earner (and we know O’Hare was on £10k so sort of tallies up).But yeah rumours and conjecture.

My working theory is Robins had less money than expected and once he’d signed Sheaf, Györkeres and Waghorn found himself short. The players heavily rumoured were more of the quality of those three and less the Brights and Clarke-Salters of the world. Just a theory though.

clint van damme · Aug 13, 2021

Skyblueweeman said:
O'Hare and Gyo get injured, Hamer gets a 3 game ban. What then?

Football is more than the 11 on the pitch.

Get someone from out the stand?

ajsccfc · Aug 13, 2021

I always come prepared for that day. And let me tell you when that day comes, finally people will stop shouting FULL KIT WANKER at me and instead shout at me for being the worst player they've ever seen.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 13, 2021

Skyblueweeman said:
Is he the top earner??

You're right, we could've got a reserve striker...but what use is a reserve striker when we were crying out for experience last term when Walker and Godden were out injured. Back up CB I agree with.

I'm sure MR and his team saw the sense in it...they obviously know quite a bit more than the situation than you or I.

We bought Gyokeres in. Did we need both him and Waghorn along with Godden and Walker when we're so light at the back?

skybluesam66 · Aug 13, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
We bought Gyokeres in. Did we need both him and Waghorn along with Godden and Walker when we're so light at the back?

if we dont do that, we then bring somebody on to the bench at biamou/Baka level when Godden is injured - so it is balancing, but yes the defence is worrying , particularly the ones who participated against northampton

Skyblueweeman · Aug 13, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
We bought Gyokeres in. Did we need both him and Waghorn along with Godden and Walker when we're so light at the back?

Yeah, that's a fair point actually. My counter would be that I think you need 4 decent strikers at a club to help with success. A mixture of youth, experience, pace, prowess, strength, instinct etc. With Walker/Gooden/Gyo/Waghorn, you have that. With Walker/Godden/Gyo/Baka or Max, I'm not sure you do.

But I do agree with you to an extent.

I also agree with you and Shmmee about the defence. But I always go back to the same point - MR and his backroom team will be aware of this and doing something about it. If we can all see it, it's naive to think he doesn't.

Jamesimus · Aug 13, 2021

First team defenders should have been the recruitment priority over the summer and to be honest, I don't think it was / or it just hasn't worked out.

I hope Waghorn turns out to be an astute signing.

SBAndy · Aug 13, 2021

Skyblueweeman said:
Yeah, that's a fair point actually. My counter would be that I think you need 4 decent strikers at a club to help with success. A mixture of youth, experience, pace, prowess, strength, instinct etc. With Walker/Gooden/Gyo/Waghorn, you have that. With Walker/Godden/Gyo/Baka or Max, I'm not sure you do.

But I do agree with you to an extent.

I also agree with you and Shmmee about the defence. But I always go back to the same point - MR and his backroom team will be aware of this and doing something about it. If we can all see it, it's naive to think he doesn't.

Its clear he sees the problem, but from the outside looking in it seems that he hasn’t got the resources to do what he wants about that problem.

Edit: and I think it’s worth adding in here that I’ve nothing against the signing of Waghorn per se, and I do agree that having 4 strikers vying for first team berths is a good position to be in. But if you spent most of your money on tuning a car’s engine only to find out you could only afford 2 wheels then you’re gonna struggle to justify it.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 13, 2021

Skyblueweeman said:
Yeah, that's a fair point actually. My counter would be that I think you need 4 decent strikers at a club to help with success. A mixture of youth, experience, pace, prowess, strength, instinct etc. With Walker/Gooden/Gyo/Waghorn, you have that. With Walker/Godden/Gyo/Baka or Max, I'm not sure you do.

But I do agree with you to an extent.

I also agree with you and Shmmee about the defence. But I always go back to the same point - MR and his backroom team will be aware of this and doing something about it. If we can all see it, it's naive to think he doesn't.

I agree that MR will know we need to improve defensively and will be looking to do so. It may be that the targets MR has identified haven't worked out or the budget isn't quite what he wanted because he expected some of our squad to have moved on who haven't.

Ordinarily I agree about four strikers (two players for each position in a squad), we have started this season with a front two as opposed to the lone striker and Godden's long term fitness is a potential problem.

But given we tend to play with 3 CB's and after the first choices of Fadz, Rose and Hyam you've got Pask, Drysdale I'd say that that was more of an issue in terms of squad depth.

I'd have just preferred the transfer fees/wages of Gyo and Waghorn used more evenly over the squad rather than just on the strikers.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 13, 2021

Skyblueweeman said:
Yeah, that's a fair point actually. My counter would be that I think you need 4 decent strikers at a club to help with success.

We've really only got three first team forwards just atm, too.

Sick Boy · Aug 13, 2021

CDK said:
Max the underdog who grafted for the team loved the club scorer of few goals but wonderful unforgettable pearlers.
Waghorn fresh into the club and it takes time to get use to new players new staff but think he will adjust and a proven scorer at this level he had a poor season last season in a shit team he's now at a club with higher standards and think he will deliver .
Max a treasured memory gone but not forgotten.

Fucking hell.

Deleted member 9744 · Aug 13, 2021

The guy has played one match, and to be honest I thought he was ok. Let's give him a chance.

I know Moore was being written off based on a few friendlies but he did well on Sunday. Just shows first impressions are not always right, and anyway Waghorn wasn't terrible on Sunday.

shmmeee · Aug 13, 2021

Deleted member 9744 said:
The guy has played one match, and to be honest I thought he was ok. Let's give him a chance.

I know Moore was being written off based on a few friendlies but he did well on Sunday. Just shows first impressions are not always right, and anyway Waghorn wasn't terrible on Sunday.

Dabo was dogshit on his debut IIRC.

SBT · Aug 13, 2021

clint van damme said:
Get someone from out the stand?

Kick for Cash: Expert Edition

Hobo · Aug 13, 2021

Forget WHAT if we hadn't scored two goals on Sunday and Bong hadnt been red carded?

Forget WHAT if everyone gets injured? There are always what if's past and future and they are meaningless.

Waghorn is an upgrade on Bakayoko and Biamou - unless the criteria is we have to upgrade and have to pay them League 2 wages?

BigadamL · Aug 13, 2021

Read the very first comment and already know this thread is ridiculous. What a cock wobble for even starting it. Prat

We'll_live_and_die · Aug 13, 2021

Greggs said:
So fucking what?! Get off your high horse

Greggs said:
He was Sunday, dickhead.

People are allowed a different opinion and create a debate without being insulted. It’s kinda the idea of the forum you know mate.

covmark · Aug 13, 2021

CDK said:
Max the underdog who grafted for the team loved the club scorer of few goals but wonderful unforgettable pearlers.
Waghorn fresh into the club and it takes time to get use to new players new staff but think he will adjust and a proven scorer at this level he had a poor season last season in a shit team he's now at a club with higher standards and think he will deliver .
Max a treasured memory gone but not forgotten.

Jesus wept. Possibly the biggest load of drivel I've ever read haha.

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CDK · Aug 13, 2021

covmark said:
Jesus wept. Possibly the biggest load of drivel I've ever read haha.

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I thought it would cause some mischief and amusement lol people take drivel seriously on here!

covmark · Aug 13, 2021

CDK said:
I thought it would cause some mischief and amusement lol people take drivel seriously on here!

Fair enough. There's so much drivel on here, it's hard not to take it seriously.

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shepardo01 · Aug 13, 2021

shmmeee said:
Rumours from Derby were they couldn’t keep him because of their wage constraint (which I believe is £11.5k/wk) and there’s been rumours this end he’s become the highest earner (and we know O’Hare was on £10k so sort of tallies up).But yeah rumours and conjecture.

sure I read it was lower than that.... only allowed to sign contracts on 4.5k max...

CCFC54321 · Aug 13, 2021

I very much doubt that we are paying players after 1 year in the championship and no supporters in attendance for one season £10,000 a week.

id imagine the highest earner is on no more than £5k maximum and that’ll include o’hare and waghorn.

Waghorn came here as it is local to him along with o’hare. We are one of the lowest paying in the championship and I very much doubt we are paying massive salary’s like £10,000 a week.

SlowerThanPlatt · Aug 13, 2021

CCFC54321 said:
I very much doubt that we are paying players after 1 year in the championship and no supporters in attendance for one season £10,000 a week.

id imagine the highest earner is on no more than £5k maximum and that’ll include o’hare and waghorn.

Waghorn came here as it is local to him along with o’hare. We are one of the lowest paying in the championship and I very much doubt we are paying massive salary’s like £10,000 a week.

Some of our players in League 1 would have been on close to 5k - Godden apparently doubled his wages to come here

stay_up_skyblues · Aug 13, 2021

CCFC54321 said:
I very much doubt that we are paying players after 1 year in the championship and no supporters in attendance for one season £10,000 a week.

id imagine the highest earner is on no more than £5k maximum and that’ll include o’hare and waghorn.

Waghorn came here as it is local to him along with o’hare. We are one of the lowest paying in the championship and I very much doubt we are paying massive salary’s like £10,000 a week.

I very much doubt you’re right mate. No way COH, Waghorn and others would have signed for £5k a week.

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee · Aug 13, 2021

Waghorn seems to be taking a fair bit of unnecessary stick. Him and Gyokores looked a handful against Wolves but less so against Forest. That’s always going to happen to 2 new players in a new system. The one worry I understand would be they can both play but are there enough goals? That’s why there’s also Godden and Walker. Shmeeees has his knickers in a twist about us strengthening up top over defensively and has posted about it about 70 billion times, and while I can definitely understand the need to strengthen at the back, I’d much rather trust Drysdale and Pask at the back than have Biamou or Bakayoko up top. We were without our two centre forwards last season and our back up was dreadful. This season I feel like we have depth up top and while we’re slightly light at the back, (less so since JCS signed) the back up is stronger as a unit than what we had up top last season

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Gint11 · Aug 13, 2021

I couldn’t care less what Waghorn earns, or how it compares to other players, especially when we don’t actually know the numbers.

He’s been brought in to score goals and provide the team experience and know-how and will do that. End of thread.

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 13, 2021

Greggs said:
People keep saying he's an upgrade.. Please provide evidence.
Also, remember last season was Max's first season at this level.
Thank you

Does Biamou not having a club yet count as evidence to you?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Aug 13, 2021

shepardo01 said:
sure I read it was lower than that.... only allowed to sign contracts on 4.5k max...

You're not fucking helping things here.

Gint11 · Aug 13, 2021

It’s a silly argument that never merited 4 pages of thread. Of course we are all allowed our opinions BUT

Compare Waghorns and Biamous overall career and it’s not even in question.

SlowerThanPlatt · Aug 13, 2021

Gint11 said:
It’s a silly argument that never merited 4 pages of thread. Of course we are all allowed our opinions BUT

Compare Waghorns and Biamous overall career and it’s not even in question.

How many National League goals does Waghorn have?

Mucca Mad Boys · Aug 13, 2021

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee said:
Waghorn seems to be taking a fair bit of unnecessary stick. Him and Gyokores looked a handful against Wolves but less so against Forest. That’s always going to happen to 2 new players in a new system. The one worry I understand would be they can both play but are there enough goals? That’s why there’s also Godden and Walker. Shmeeees has his knickers in a twist about us strengthening up top over defensively and has posted about it about 70 billion times, and while I can definitely understand the need to strengthen at the back, I’d much rather trust Drysdale and Pask at the back than have Biamou or Bakayoko up top. We were without our two centre forwards last season and our back up was dreadful. This season I feel like we have depth up top and while we’re slightly light at the back, (less so since JCS signed) the back up is stronger as a unit than what we had up top last season

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Forest are pretty well known for being compact defensively so it probably wasn’t the best game for Gyo and Waghorn. They’ll provide a lot of value against teams who either play out from the back and/or play a high defensive line.

For me, I’d start one of them with either Walker/Godden. The latter two striker are our best finishers and will give us more of a clinical edge.

shmmeee · Aug 13, 2021

shepardo01 said:
sure I read it was lower than that.... only allowed to sign contracts on 4.5k max...

My info was from a Derby forum so you’re probably right.

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