Wake up supporters - you are being conned! (1 Viewer)

James Smith · Jul 7, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
What happens when Ccfc have to pay rent to the sisu owned stadium. Will you support that?

Not that it will get built anyway, sisu are losers, pure and simple. They don't know how to win, they only know how to destroy.

Brilliant you've just nailed it.....SISU are the Mysterons

"SISU Sworn enemies of ACL/Cov Council. Possessing the ability to recreate an exact likeness of a Stadium. But first, they must destroy ... Leading the fight, one man fate has made indestructible. His name: PWKH."

For our younger viewers for whom this might make no sense see this for further info

[video=youtube;bV8YbLvGrb0]www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV8YbLvGrb0[/video]

and then get the box set of DVD's.

Gerr Anderson R.I.P

Number9shirt · Jul 7, 2013

skyblueindorset said:
For the zillionth time, the council didn't put us into admin. It was Sisu. <img src="images/smilies/facepalm.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Facepalm" smilieid="61" class="inlineimg" />

Number9shirt · Jul 7, 2013

skyblueindorset said:
For the zillionth time, the council didn't put us into admin. It was Sisu. <img src="images/smilies/facepalm.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Facepalm" smilieid="61" class="inlineimg" />

Wasn't ACL going to put Ltd into Admin but SISU got there first?

Chinny_Hill · Jul 7, 2013

Grendel said:
No normal football fan would ever think that. The football club would be all that matters. Without it 99% of the community will ever use it.

It's this pathetic attitude that has helped create the problems.

The definition of irony is you using the term "normal fan"

James Smith · Jul 7, 2013

just-here-4-coffee said:
So, what you're saying as far as I understand is;

'SISU can make decisions with the best interests of the club's long term survival and be held accountable by all, but a charity that supports a move against this should not be held accountable for it's business decisions because it is a charity'

Charities aren't teddybears you know, It's well publicised that charities aren't always operated in a moral and scrupulous way! Not that i'm saying that about Higgs because in truth I don't know enough and unlike most, don't like to talk about things I don't understand.

No and neither is the Charity Commission that would likely crucify the trustees if they made decisions that weren't in the best interests of the charity.

MichaelCCFC · Jul 7, 2013

Hi Coffee

It's always really boring when people agree so v interested to hear your arguments. Trouble with an anonymous forum is there are lots of wums, trolls etc and instant suspicion about 'plants' and the like. I'm always open about who I am and am always genuinely interested in other people's point of view. So let's get a really good discussion going - be open about who you are, why you think the overwhelming majority of people who have responded to polls saying they don't support moving out of Cov are wrong, and why you believe a new stadium will be built when there is no evidence of a planning application having been submitted never mind getting through the lengthy process of obtaining planning permission, and when any of the sites so far rumoured have a zero chance of receiving permission?

Cheers,

Michael

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 7, 2013

No chance rfc once we play a home game out of Coventry the club Ccfc ceases to exist to many of us

Harry Grout · Jul 7, 2013

Agreed our allegiance is to the Club - CCFC. Trouble is that CCFC appears to have become a plaything between SISU, the Council and ACL. Nobody should 'support' one of these bodies over the others, all that matters is CCFC. But are any of these genuinely acting in the best interests of CCFC, both now and longer term? Sadly I think not.

Personally I do not trust any of them, their ambitions nor their long term plans for CCFC. If anything, this lack of trust has been strengthened by recent developments. It's all out war between the main protagonists with the 'my cock's bigger than yours' approach, and CCFC almost become an irrelevance. I might have a little more sympathy for SISU if I wasn't so apprehensive of what might happen if they were to gain control of the Ricoh. I don't think CCFC would be top of their list.

I started supporting The City many years ago - not Coventry Council, ACL or SISU. They're all a bunch of self-seeking and arrogant glory hunters and I wish they would all bugger off.

RFC · Jul 7, 2013

James Smith said:
It's not a HOME game if it's in Northampton.

WRONG, it's a HOME game and all being well I'll be there!

bigfatronssba · Jul 7, 2013

RFC said:
 
 
WRONG, it's a HOME game and all being well I'll be there!

How is Northampton home?

shropshirecov · Jul 7, 2013

There's plenty of valid points on the original post, although the investment argument is weak.

The problem as I see it is the club have been milked by various 3rd party interests for years. Whoever agreed the original deal, with the level of rent and the catering, car parking, etc profits generated by the club going elsewhere, they must've been on drugs.

Why didn't sisu renegotiate, or at least try to when they took over, I'll never know.

We're now left with a stadium that's gonna be empty because its too expensive and the structure is such that parts that could've aided a tenants business have been sold off.
People running the football club are a PR disaster and their unpopularity is fuelling ACL's position.

stupot07 · Jul 7, 2013

Number9shirt said:
 
 
Wasn't ACL going to put Ltd into Admin but SISU got there first?

Correct. .

RFC · Jul 7, 2013

Total and utter nonsense, our Club will die if WE DON'T SUPPORT IT (due to FL 'Fair Play Rules), supporter for almost 60 years.

It's a 'fait accompli' that the owners find themselves in this position mainly due to the intransigence of both ACL & COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL but in all honesty no-one comes out of this debacle with ANY CREDIT
IMHO!

bigfatronssba said:
 
 
The day the club leaves Coventry is the day it dies. Fortunately most other fans feel this way also and we will be the ones that rid this cancer from our club.

stupot07 · Jul 7, 2013

mattylad said:
Your post falls down on one simple fact which is they haven't invested anything! they have loaned and charged both interest and management fees for those loans. They expect every penny back.

If it were an investment then they would understand that sometimes these don't pay off.

This is the same for 99% of football club owners/investors, they loan money to the clubs not gift it to them. Leicester owe £75m (since 2010) to King Power, yet people perceive they have invested in the club. Forest owed Doughty £75m when he died, etc.

bigfatronssba · Jul 7, 2013

RFC said:
Total and utter nonsense, our Club will die if WE DON'T SUPPORT IT (due to FL 'Fair Play Rules), supporter for almost 60 years.
 
It's a 'fait accompli' that the owners find themselves in this position mainly due to the intransigence of both ACL & COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL but in all honesty no-one comes out of this debacle with ANY CREDIT 
IMHO!

Ffp is the exact reason why we shouldn't be moving.

The customers want to watch their team in Coventry. As CEO its the responsibility of Tim Fisher to provide that. If he can't then he should resign or face the consequences.

blueflint · Jul 7, 2013

just-here-4-coffee said:
I am largely a reader of this forum, not a poster (I'm unsure of precisely what my post count is, but it will be low), but I have to make an exception in this case.

I've avoided this forum like the plague now for some time because frankly it's depressing watching the majority of supporters peddle the agenda of the club's landlords and particularly the council who have been heavily involved with the skullduggery surrounding our club, principally because they seem to have you all convinced that their hands are not blood stained, despite the punitive measures they have taken against your football club!

It is no secret that SISU have consistently left us wanting more during their tenure, but yet two facts remain;

1. They have invested a large sum of money in our club (albeit whilst annotating it on the balance sheet as loans).
2. Everybody seemed to be happy with progress this year under SISU until this stadium debacle.

Ultimately, SISU are in the right here, as painful as it might be to admit it. It has been well publicised that there are impending problems for clubs under the 'financial fair play' rules. Predominantly this is very simple, we can only spend what we make in ticket sales/sponsorship etc on sustaining the club and maintaining a competitive playing squad.
At present we make precious little, and consequently, we will really feel the bite when these rules come into force. If you think a ten point deduction is hard to swallow, the consequences of not fitting in with these rules will have our club in a serious nosedive and have us tumbling down the leagues quicker than you can say 'maybe that coffee guy was right'.

Simply put for the primate contingent of this forum; some derp once upon a time made a real balls up when negotiating rent for our stadium and as a result, the cash we get in return for the tickets we sell aren't sufficient to support the club without the owners putting money in - which it is not viable long term for those owners to do because in time they will be prohibited from doing so.
The owners are business people, and bought in with the idea one day of either taking a considerable dividend or planning an exit strategy to sell the club on. This is their right and I support that. We aren't playing subbuteo here, we're playing football manager...

The club had every right to request that the arena bosses revisited the rent agreement. It is in their best interests for the club to prosper! The club and the stadium are supposed to behave like husband and wife. The stadium is cheating on the club at the moment with the council! I'm sure if the club became champions league chasers, then the arena would be looking for a substantial rent increase! This works both ways....

This exercise on SISU's part, is simply to demonstrate to the arena bosses that their arena cannot survive without the club. I support that, and you should too!

If we were smart supporters instead of sheeples, your lean would be on the arena bosses and not the club. You'd all turn out in force at Northampton to support our team at home games and frighten the life out of the arena bosses. Additionally you'd all be emailing the businesses that operate on the arena site encouraging them to demand a rent decrease in line with the footfall reduction as a result of CCFC departing from the site.

Our football club can only survive if we procure the stadium or have a rent agreement that allows us access to a lion share of the money that the supporters invest in watching the team!

The council stifled the club's attempt to get serious with the arena bosses by spending FOURTEEN MILLION POUNDS OF TAXPAYERS MONEY propping up ACL. Surely on this forum there are some people who have suffered from council cuts - be it redundancy, policing deficiencies, or perhaps they turn your streetlights off at night turning your area into a criminals wet dream? How can they spend 14M of your money like that, and nobody raise any objection?

Ultimately, if you were to protest against the council, perhaps their intervention would be punishable. Perhaps they'd have to recover their 14M and ACL would have to remortgage that 14M - Almost impossible with no viable tenants!

Perhaps then the arena will need to be sold to the people who would most benefit from it. Not SISU - your football club!

This is all a big game of smoke and mirrors, and SISU will get their way because they are a bunch of sharks - but the supporters are making it unnecessarily difficult for them - Your allegiance is to the club, not the council - I guarantee most here have been wronged by the council some way, at some time in their lives.

The club, (in my opinion) will unlikely play long-term at Northants. But if we turned out there in force to support our team, instead of these protests of about five people that frankly look pitiful, perhaps we can affect positive change over our clubs future and restore it to former glory.

Does anyone understand how irksome it is, every time our captain posts about tennis/golf/his holiday/his pets it is for you all to turn it into some innuendo filled rant about the club and the owners.

I'm sure you will all have your problems with this post, but I could no longer be silent.

PUSB!

Twitter #ashturnerdotcom

what a load of cobblers pardon the pun

valiant15 · Jul 7, 2013

Looks like its going to die then. Best of look supporting fc sisu in Northamptonshire.

James Smith · Jul 7, 2013

RFC said:
 
 
WRONG, it's a HOME game and all being well I'll be there!

Ah 'HOME' as in the Low Cost Airline sense of the word where Frankfurt Hahn is described as Frankfurt West, cos it's only 117km away?:laugh:

https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=50.033333,8.570556&q=loc:50.033333,8.570556&hl=en&t=m&z=14

RFC · Jul 7, 2013

How long is it going to take for ACL & CCC to realise that THEY need CCFC more than the SKY BLUES need them?

Like the majority I have no wish to travel to Northampton (or anywhere else for that matter) but in both the Long-Term & Short-Term my Football Club will only exist by owning & receiving ALL revenue 'streams', NOT MY WORDS OR OPINION but those of RAY RANSON, PAUL FLETCHER & our last Manager Mark Robins, who posted on Huddersfields website that Coventry City Council must do a lot more to help the Sky Bkues!

James Smith · Jul 7, 2013

RFC said:
How long is it going to take for ACL & CCC to realise that THEY need CCFC more than the SKY BLUES need them?

Like the majority I have no wish to travel to Northampton (or anywhere else for that matter) but in both the Long-Term & Short-Term my Football Club will only exist by owning & receiving ALL revenue 'streams', NOT MY WORDS OR OPINION but those of RAY RANSON, PAUL FLETCHER & our last Manager Mark Robins, who posted on Huddersfields website that Coventry City Council must do a lot more to help the Sky Bkues!

And why don't we own at least half of ACL at the moment?

valiant15 · Jul 7, 2013

RFC said:
How long is it going to take for ACL & CCC to realise that THEY need CCFC more than the SKY BLUES need them?

Like the majority I have no wish to travel to Northampton (or anywhere else for that matter) but in both the Long-Term & Short-Term my Football Club will only exist by owning & receiving ALL revenue 'streams', NOT MY WORDS OR OPINION but those of RAY RANSON, PAUL FLETCHER & our last Manager Mark Robins, who posted on Huddersfields website that Coventry City Council must do a lot more to help the Sky Bkues!

Why don't they buy the rights back then?

James Smith · Jul 7, 2013

valiant15 said:
Why don't they buy the rights back then?

They were in negotiations with the Higgs and then just walked away.....who knows why.

Grendel · Jul 7, 2013

James Smith said:
They were in negotiations with the Higgs and then just walked away.....who knows why.

No lots if things remain a mystery. Like why some posters only ever post when the football clubs landlord comes under attack.

luwalla · Jul 7, 2013

mattylad said:
Your post falls down on one simple fact which is they haven't invested anything! they have loaned and charged both interest and management fees for those loans. They expect every penny back.

If it were an investment then they would understand that sometimes these don't pay off.

Sorry but that's how business works, owners invest with an expectation of recouping tht investment ( plus some ) down the line..

And pretty much all owner investment is marked down as a director loan.. Again, that's how business work.

Not being sarcastic, but if you dont understand how business, and in particular business investment, works.. Them you really should refrain from posting as If you do

Jack Griffin · Jul 7, 2013

The OP is totally misguided.

1. SISU are poor managers of this club, they've alienated 90% of the fan base, caused one relagation (so far) and are about to lose the club its academy status.
2. The idea that anyone was satisfied with a management that relegated the club and failed even to get into the top six last season with a top 3 budget is laughable.
3. FFP applies to everyone, but in this league the key to a good budget is remaining in Coventry where the crowds are a match for anyone in this division, so leaving is guaranteed to result in poor crowds, a low budget and a weak team that will probably be relegated.
4. SISU made promises about taking an interest in the Arena and investing in the regeneration of the Area, they reneged on these, hopefully this will all come out in court.
5. SISU are not 'demonstrating' anything to ACL, they are screwing with peoples livelihoods for their own selfish gain. Only a despicable person or an idiot could support them in this.
6. No one should go to Northampton, the only way to get rid of this cancer is to attack them in every way possible, withholding money from them is a key plank in the strategy to remove them.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 7, 2013

Grendel said:
No lots if things remain a mystery. Like why some posters only ever post when the football clubs landlord comes under attack.

Well Northampton can be our new landlords now. Doing our best to give money to any club other than our own.

bigfatronssba · Jul 7, 2013

luwalla said:
Sorry but that's how business works, owners invest with an expectation of recouping tht investment ( plus some ) down the line..

And pretty much all owner investment is marked down as a director loan.. Again, that's how business work.

Not being sarcastic, but if you dont understand how business, and in particular business investment, works.. Them you really should refrain from posting as If you do

Sisu also need to understand how business works. Alienate your customers and you have no business.

Sky Blue Kid · Jul 7, 2013

just-here-4-coffee said:
If they hadn't chalked it up as a loan then they wouldn't be the main creditor in this administration jazz - and we'd be completely at the mercy of ACL.

They're writing a ton of it off under admin recovery proposals, so actually, I think my post was valid sir. They aren't looking to bleed the club, only to retain control and recover some of the money they've put in. Why shouldn't they, they aren't a charity?

Your name isn't Adam Adamant is it? Only you seem to have been asleep for a very long time and only just woken up. You are correct in assuming they aren't a charity...but ACL(Partners) are. Once again as already been stated, They have put "Sweet FA" into CCFC, they have LOANED it, and charged a significant amount for the privilege.
I can see you now......Cloak, Cane, and a bemused look on your face after seeing what a car looks like!:facepalm:

Grendel · Jul 7, 2013

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well Northampton can be our new landlords now. Doing our best to give money to any club other than our own.

On that point it doesn't really matter - the payments are not going to the club a despite a misguided belief to the contrary the taxpayer receives no benefit either.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 7, 2013

Grendel said:
On that point it doesn't really matter - the payments are not going to the club a despite a misguided belief to the contrary the taxpayer receives no benefit either.

Well we seem happy to continue selling no season tickets and to push merchandise from a shitty stall so income clearly isn't important.

James Smith · Jul 7, 2013

Grendel said:
No lots if things remain a mystery. Like why some posters only ever post when the football clubs landlord comes under attack.

I come on here because I am angry, angry at the moment because the owners of my club are moving that club away from the city to another town. It's tragic the way our club is being abused by the owners and some fans are happy to let that happen. We've been at our lowest position for decades with the highest level of debt, thanks to their brilliant stewardship. Then they bang on about FFP and the requirements that brings at the same time as hobbling our income with a groundshare outside the city. This of course is to say nothing of the proposal to spend money we don't have on a stadium we arguably don't need. Then having right royally pissed off the landlords who despite everything haven't kicked us out, they don't say sorry for their behaviour just that they will stay if the previous deal is put back on the table. Bit late for that isn't it? As I said before the fact that the Higgs are still prepared to deal with them is nothing short of baffling.

Our club is the one that I grew up watching, I can remember my dad taking me to my first match at Highfield Road and the last. I can remember the trips to Hillsborough and Wembley for both the FA cup and the charity Shield. I cry every time I listen to my copy of Sky Blue Magic when the final whistle blows and again when Killer lifts the cup. Over the years I've taken some stick as a Sky Blues Fan from friends and colleagues, the latest jibe being "How do you think your home form will be away next season?" I don't take it personally, and even the friends making those comments are shocked by what's happening to us. On here I've been accused by you of being PWKH, a council worker, working in the ACL politburo in the Ministry for talking drivel etc. but I'm not actually that bothered, I get called names by my toddler nieces and nephews so nothing new there.

I thought that we couldn't get more screwed by the owners than we did under BR, and it pains me to say it but we are now. You're damn right that I pick up on things where I think someone is posting something that's wrong. If things look a bit suspect on either side of this mess then we should be questioning them about it. The fact that PWKH comes on here and presents the ACL/Charity side and is more open and comes across as a nice bloke doesn't mean that we should take everything he says as the unblemished truth.

The thing is though he and ACL have been more open with us and explained things when asked, they've also filed their accounts on time! That's one of the reasons that I quote him as a source, I've not yet found somewhere where he's been untruthful with us. At some points it is ACL/his word against CCFC/SISU and you have to make your own mind up in that case. Yes he and whoever else it was were a bit silly with balloon gate but other than that they've held what I can only describe as the moral high ground in all this. The club are starting to get around to engaging with the fans via the fans forums but it should have been done earlier and the owners should have noticed that they were getting unpopular a long time ago.

I believe that ACL should be owned by the club and that the club needs the revenue from the 365 days a year Arena business. What I don't think is that a SISU owned club should have any part of this and thankfully I don't think the council will let them.

rupert_bear · Jul 7, 2013

Not reading all the replies got a tennis match to watch but whatever people think about who is to blame etc,etc. sisu have commited THE most cardinal sin simply by intending to move OUR club out of OUR city with no thought or feelings about the affect it is having on supporters. If they want to build a new stadium somewhere else in the city or even on the immediate outskirts fine. There is nothing stopping them doing that using the Ricoh in the meantime and then moving out. What they are doing is playing with fans emotions almost teasing them, mean and vindictive and I believe planned a while ago. Exactly why to me is a bit of a mystery

bigfatronssba · Jul 7, 2013

James Smith said:
I come on here because I am angry, angry at the moment because the owners of my club are moving that club away from the city to another town. It's tragic the way our club is being abused by the owners and some fans are happy to let that happen. We've been at our lowest position for decades with the highest level of debt, thanks to their brilliant stewardship. Then they bang on about FFP and the requirements that brings at the same time as hobbling our income with a groundshare outside the city. This of course is to say nothing of the proposal to spend money we don't have on a stadium we arguably don't need. Then having right royally pissed off the landlords who despite everything haven't kicked us out, they don't say sorry for their behaviour just that they will stay if the previous deal is put back on the table. Bit late for that isn't it? As I said before the fact that the Higgs are still prepared to deal with them is nothing short of baffling.

Our club is the one that I grew up watching, I can remember my dad taking me to my first match at Highfield Road and the last. I can remember the trips to Hillsborough and Wembley for both the FA cup and the charity Shield. I cry every time I listen to my copy of Sky Blue Magic when the final whistle blows and again when Killer lifts the cup. Over the years I've taken some stick as a Sky Blues Fan from friends and colleagues, the latest jibe being "How do you think your home form will be away next season?" I don't take it personally, and even the friends making those comments are shocked by what's happening to us. On here I've been accused by you of being PWKH, a council worker, working in the ACL politburo in the Ministry for talking drivel etc. but I'm not actually that bothered, I get called names by my toddler nieces and nephews so nothing new there.

I thought that we couldn't get more screwed by the owners than we did under BR, and it pains me to say it but we are now. You're damn right that I pick up on things where I think someone is posting something that's wrong. If things look a bit suspect on either side of this mess then we should be questioning them about it. The fact that PWKH comes on here and presents the ACL/Charity side and is more open and comes across as a nice bloke doesn't mean that we should take everything he says as the unblemished truth.

The thing is though he and ACL have been more open with us and explained things when asked, they've also filed their accounts on time! That's one of the reasons that I quote him as a source, I've not yet found somewhere where he's been untruthful with us. At some points it is ACL/his word against CCFC/SISU and you have to make your own mind up in that case. Yes he and whoever else it was were a bit silly with balloon gate but other than that they've held what I can only describe as the moral high ground in all this. The club are starting to get around to engaging with the fans via the fans forums but it should have been done earlier and the owners should have noticed that they were getting unpopular a long time ago.

I believe that ACL should be owned by the club and that the club needs the revenue from the 365 days a year Arena business. What I don't think is that a SISU owned club should have any part of this and thankfully I don't think the council will let them.

Best post of the thread.

RFC · Jul 7, 2013

James Smith said:
And why don't we own at least half of ACL at the moment?

Very good question, why don't you put that one to CCC & the Higgs Trust? Also possible ACL who've signed away an important revenue stream (catering) to Compass for how many years??????????

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 7, 2013

RFC said:
Very good question, why don't you put that one to CCC & the Higgs Trust? Also possible ACL who've signed away an important revenue stream (catering) to Compass for how many years??????????

Have SISU ever formally offered to either party?

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