Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Two cheeks from the same arse wasps owners and sisu
That's how it reads to me. The council are saying they can have the land if they can get someone to build a hotel on it so no need to lease it until they have someone on the hook. When they're at that stage it will just be bridging finance to cover the build cost prior to leasing it to whatever chain they have lined up.As I posted earlier on in the thread, I don't think they'll be funding anything. I assume their plan is to sub-let the land once they've got the long leasehold.
That's how it reads to me. The council are saying they can have the land if they can get someone to build a hotel on it so no need to lease it until they have someone on the hook. When they're at that stage it will just be bridging finance to cover the build cost prior to leasing it to whatever chain they have lined up.
No doubt the cost of the lease to the hotel will more than cover the cost of the lease for the land.
Does raise the question why do Wasps need to be involved. See no reason the council can't do this themselves and get a better return for the taxpayer.
Nice to see at least part of them outside Coventry.The insects appear to have Old Leamingtonians lined up for a training ground location.
The threat to Allard Way and continuance of the Academy there seems well and truly over.
Not there, that's my route home - don't want to be clogged up by building work for wannabe cuckoos.Nice to see at least part of them outside Coventry.
I think there've been talking to leanington for a while but never appears to moving forward. My thoughts are they can’t do as they don’t have the finances available.The insects appear to have Old Leamingtonians lined up for a training ground location.
The threat to Allard Way and continuance of the Academy there seems well and truly over.
They'll be gone soon enough once we oust them from the Ricoh.Not there, that's my route home - don't want to be clogged up by building work for wannabe cuckoos.
I do have a couple of questions oldskyblue58 about how do bonds work. Let’s say each bond costs 100 each when the term is up should I get 106.50 each?
What happens when the bond is worth 90.00 would I only get back 95.85 and would lose 4.15 per bond.
If wasps don’t have the cash flow to pay everyone backs what happens??
Thanks
- the 6.5% coupon is the annual interest rate. So no you don't get 106.50 when term is up. There is a sliding scale of bonus for early redemption at the issuers option up until 13/11/2021. After that I think it is face value. That's if Wasps pay the bonds off to clear their debt before the redemption date 13/05/2022.
- at the moment the bonds are traded on the LSE and if you sell it will be though the LSE and you get the market price on the day of sale currently around £94 per £100 of bond
- if Wasps cant find a way to repay then bondholders call the loan in, the stadium is at risk and most probably Wasps go bust
please be true!!!- the 6.5% coupon is the annual interest rate. So no you don't get 106.50 when term is up. There is a sliding scale of bonus for early redemption at the issuers option up until 13/11/2021. After that I think it is face value. That's if Wasps pay the bonds off to clear their debt before the redemption date 13/05/2022.
- at the moment the bonds are traded on the LSE and if you sell it will be though the LSE and you get the market price on the day of sale currently around £94 per £100 of bond
- if Wasps cant find a way to repay then bondholders call the loan in, the stadium is at risk and most probably Wasps go bust
I still think the last point is most pertinent. Wasps were moved here by Richardson as he didn't want to continue funding them, hence why he paid himself back as part of the bond scheme. If wasps continue to make a loss then what is his motivation for continuing? Then you have a situation where you're trying to find a buyer for a club with dwindling crowds/revenues and a huge debt repayment due.Just a few thoughts really
- if they are investing in training ground then the prospect of them moving from the area, relocating at Brentford etc is made even more unlikely(even if Brentford will be ready December 2019). The training ground has to tie in with the location of the players, youth set up, academy and the RFU allocated area.
- the Ricoh is up for sale, well if they are not moving (there is only rumour & conjecture) then one of the things I can think of is that it will be sold and leased back possibly through a pension fund. But what is for sale (if at all)? The lease, ACL, ACL 2006, the business, the group, the club? In any case CCC are going to need to be involved. Or is it misinterpretation and it is the stadium sponsorship & change of name that is up for sale.
- given the new long term agreement with Delaware North how does any stadium sale tie in with that? Are Compass actually clear of the site because it looks like they still hold a charge
- the stadium income (profitable) has so far contributed greatly to the playing spend (unprofitable) is there a way to sell the stadium and still be viable? Biggest problem they have is cashflow. Seems they have reduced player wages but does the rest stack up
- They are apparently long leasing the OL's site - not unusual, they were going to lease the area at the Higgs and leased the old ground at Twyford, they are renting Broadstreet, do they need to own the Freehold of anywhere? The cost burden is already there so wont be 100% rent cost increase at new site.
- I think it is telling that there is an emphasis on the OL's community work in the press release - my guess is that the site is looking to attract grants & sports funding which of course offsets the build costs. Community usage will be key to obtaining funding. OL's are the freeholder that Wasps would be long leasing from. Wasps would use the site weekdays I would assume but evening usage will also be available to OL's
- How big is the OL's site? is it just the 5 acres originally bought...... is that enough space. We don't have site of any plans as to what is actually being sought
- are Wasps still under a duty to publish accounts 4 months after year end (ie 31st October) ? If published that will give us a better picture
- Looking at the Bond details there have been some transactions but there seems no real market for them despite the 6.5% coupon. Still valued at 94 so still below face value
- Crowds seem to have dropped further but I think that is the same across all clubs and rugby clubs are not as dependent on crowds as for example CCFC because of the large central distribution. Wasps are currently sitting 3rd in the division despite what some would say not having funds to pay players - and yet they brought players in (what will hit them is the injuries & call ups). The players brought in are all in the first team squad, nearly all have played. Wage costs and wage cost inflation is a worry for all professional rugby clubs.
- a proper and permanent training set up is important to all teams, it attracts outside talent yes, but it also enables the development of home grown players (just look at the CCFC academy, this is no different for Wasps). That keeps costs down.
- the lack of a new finance deal for the whole division must be a worry to all clubs. Only Exeter turned a profit in the last round of financials. Also the dominance of Exeter & Saracens is that a good thing or does it need more teams in the mix?
- how far is Richardson prepared to back it all?
Thanks for that. That was really helpul- the 6.5% coupon is the annual interest rate. So no you don't get 106.50 when term is up. There is a sliding scale of bonus for early redemption at the issuers option up until 13/11/2021. After that I think it is face value. That's if Wasps pay the bonds off to clear their debt before the redemption date 13/05/2022.
- at the moment the bonds are traded on the LSE and if you sell it will be though the LSE and you get the market price on the day of sale currently around £94 per £100 of bond
- if Wasps cant find a way to repay then bondholders call the loan in, the stadium is at risk and most probably Wasps go bust
just out of interest OSB, does the refinance of the loan look less likely now?
In your opinion how low can the bonds price drop before prospective bond holders would say it is too risqué of an investment to hold.
It does look everytime they need to pay their bond holders the price of the bonds drops even further. Also, the difference of the bond price from before, to after they have paid the bond holders, is increasing negatively.
Would this be a correct assessment?
Slightly unusual market as well as some bondholders have the conflict of interest of being a supporter. Without that perhaps there would have been a greater sell off after the audit and the price would have plummeted.So the fact that the bonds are 94p is saying Wasps have a greater than even chance of a failure to make full repayment at some point.
If it was a rock solid investment they would be above sale price (like they were immediately after issue and for some time) wouldn't they?
Their 'mistake' with the accounts would have probably come under more scrutiny as well when they had that vote if more non-fans held bonds.Slightly unusual market as well as some bondholders have the conflict of interest of being a supporter. Without that perhaps there would have been a greater sell off after the audit and the price would have plummeted.
If their financial situation is grim. Should they not be doing everything to keep us as tenants? I would say that we bring 300,000 + i imagine that would bring in around £1.5 to £2 million a year. Surely that’s a serious amount of revenue they would be losing...So we’re fast approaching 12 months on from there last disarray with the financial results and they were only staying afloat due to there owner pumping more money in and I don’t see any significant change to see any improvement to there finances. In fact I’d say if anything there gates are getting lower so less income.
Unless there is some significant income I can’t see there financial status getting anything but worse.
I was in corporate today and a few comments going around referenced wasps financial situation. It’s grim.
Lol, no way was it half full from some of the pics I've seen. 10/11k more like.15,400 there.
Oh yeah, sorry, my bad. That included freebies.Did the count everyone twice?
This should help them keep count?Oh yeah, sorry, my bad. That included freebies.
Without the freebies it was 1,400.
The insects appear to have Old Leamingtonians lined up for a training ground location.
The threat to Allard Way and continuance of the Academy there seems well and truly over.
Him and Fisher must have attended the same business school
Jon Robinson Senior Digital Staff Writer
Wasps CEO hails start of phase two of growth strategy
5 Nov 2018 Midlands Business
The chief executive of the group behind Premiership rugby club Wasps has outlined his plans for the next stage of their growth after completing the first phase which started with the relocation from London to Coventry in 2014.
In a wide-ranging exclusive interview with Insider, Nick Eastwood set out his growth aspirations for the wider group which also controls Wasps' home, the Ricoh Arena, as well as Wasps Netball.
The former Rugby Football Union finance director said a planning application for the rugby club's new training ground, which will form the centre piece of the phase, is expected to be submitted in the coming months.
Eastwood admitted that the group "underestimated the complexity" of the project, having had expected to already have completed the scheme by now.
However, the chief executive said the multimillion-pound facility will be of the "best quality" and will help provide more positive results on the pitch.
He added that the club are about three years away from selling out the 32,609-seater stadium and the group is also set to concentrate on growing the Ricoh Arena's conferencing and events offering.
Nick Eastwood
In its latest available financial accounts, the group slashed its pre-tax losses from £9.3m to £3.7m and Eastwood said having a significant part of the business not focused on rugby would enable it to become profitable in the near future.
He also remained open for a new partner to take a stake in the Premiership after the league rejected the advance of CVC Capital Partners in September.
Eastwood said: "We are delighted with our performance so far and we have been blown away by the level of support we have received from the area.
"We have only completed three seasons in the Ricoh and I would say that we have come to the end of phase one which was about us settling in to our new city.
"The training centre will be a major part of the second phase and we are ready to go with the plans.
"We want to continue to build up the conference and exhibition side of the business as the Ricoh Arena is a bit of a hidden secret and not always at the front of people's minds.
"At the moment we are about 60 per cent non-rugby and 40 per cent rugby and having a significant part of the group not focused on the sport will help us become profitable and grow further in the future.
"The salary cap is an import part of helping this club and others to close the profitability gap as it means our costs will remain broadly the same for the next three years, allowing our revenue to grow.
"I can see a significant merit in inviting a new partner into the league by letting them take a stake in it and providing global resources that we can't do on our own.
"The US for example is a massive market with huge opportunity."
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