Wasps downward spiral... (24 Viewers)

oldfiver · May 30, 2022

Grendel said:
They must not have been for a reason as the group accounts have been filed haven’t they?

I think you wrote this in a rush?

The Registrars notice does not give any reason for the Warning - you are assuming it is for late filing. However, the accounts are "only" 5 weeks late - normally the CH Computer would not have sent out such a statement in such a short time

As to why not filed while Group has, is the puzzle. If there is a difficuly on the ACL accounts it indicates it was present before the end of March - not just recently

But this is WASPS - from the beginning they have done what they wanted and so far it has worked

oldfiver · May 30, 2022

Philosorapter said:
So far, they haven't been issued with a notice for a winding up order,

Strictly they have not been served with a Winding Up Notice - just a warning that if a certain event does not happen by May 31 then the Registrar will proceed

oldfiver · May 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Wasps holdings ltd are not and they are the holding company

Also notice is 2 months after the date

The problem will be is if the Registrar posts a Winding Up notice others can join in

At Companies Court any aggrieved person can join with or substitute the original applicant

Grendel · May 30, 2022

oldfiver said:
I think you wrote this in a rush?

The Registrars notice does not give any reason for the Warning - you are assuming it is for late filing. However, the accounts are "only" 5 weeks late - normally the CH Computer would not have sent out such a statement in such a short time

As to why not filed while Group has, is the puzzle. If there is a difficuly on the ACL accounts it indicates it was present before the end of March - not just recently

But this is WASPS - from the beginning they have done what they wanted and so far it has worked

Surely the most likely scenarios are either complete restructure of the companies with the rugby club becoming stand alone or a buyer of the main lease?

Grendel · May 30, 2022

oldfiver said:
The problem will be is if the Registrar posts a Winding Up notice others can join in

At Companies Court any aggrieved person can join with or substitute the original applicant

Maybe and I’m sure there are some very aggrieved people but I doubt many will as they have a vested interest

Philosoraptor · May 30, 2022

Hope this hasn't already been posted.

Kneeza · May 30, 2022

Grendel said:
hes freelance now isn’t he

Yes he is.
And he's more motivated by Tigers these days. They're a successful club, after all.

duffer · May 30, 2022

No well run business finds itself on the end of a winding up order (edit: sorry, striking off order, I'm getting ahead of myself here!), or suddenly finds it can't pay a debt which it promised to honour a matter of weeks earlier.

I'm not saying that this is the end for Wasps, but quite clearly they're finding themselves under unexpected pressure. I can't say that I'm not enjoying it, maybe it's time for them to find that nomad gene and hit the road.

Grendel · May 30, 2022

Philosorapter said:
Hope this hasn't already been posted.

They were warning people to get there early

Gynnsthetonic · May 30, 2022

The silence is deafening from both Wasps and the Local Media

duffer · May 30, 2022

Gynnsthetonic said:
The silence is deafening from both Wasps and the Local Media

Maybe our new mayor is wondering if he's backed the wrong horse too...

Gynnsthetonic · May 30, 2022

duffer said:
Maybe our new mayor is wondering if he's backed the wrong horse too...

Perhaps all the councillors who voted are wondering the same, I do see occasionally Maton the Mayor at the CCFC games. I wonder if Cllr Duggins is still walking round in his Wasps scarf though?

CCFC54321 · May 30, 2022

oldskyblue58 · May 30, 2022

oldfiver said:
I think you wrote this in a rush?

The Registrars notice does not give any reason for the Warning - you are assuming it is for late filing. However, the accounts are "only" 5 weeks late - normally the CH Computer would not have sent out such a statement in such a short time

As to why not filed while Group has, is the puzzle. If there is a difficuly on the ACL accounts it indicates it was present before the end of March - not just recently

But this is WASPS - from the beginning they have done what they wanted and so far it has worked

Agree with most of that. However Companies House has been getting stricter about deadlines and winding up orders are being sent so they go live at around 2 months after the due date for late filing of financials.

Should not get to that though without good reason.

I agree I think something has come to light after group accounts filed (early due bond terms) and filing the subsidiary ones. It could be restructuring or it could be there are doubts about refinancing and therefore the going concern.

Grendel · May 30, 2022

oldskyblue58 said:
Agree with most of that. However Companies House has been getting stricter about deadlines and winding up orders are being sent so they go live at around 2 months after the due date for late filing of financials.

Should not get to that though without good reason.

I agree I think something has come to light after group accounts filed (early due bond terms) and filing the subsidiary ones. It could be restructuring or it could be there are doubts about refinancing and therefore the going concern.

It’s pretty shoddy to release a statement to investors saying they’d be paid on time when they must have surely been away the financing would not have been in place at that time

TomRad85 · May 30, 2022

Philosorapter said:
Hope this hasn't already been posted.

Wow! I knew it was dead in there but that's tragic... well its not its fucking hilarious, but you know what I mean.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

skybluesam66 · May 30, 2022

oldskyblue58 said:
Agree with most of that. However Companies House has been getting stricter about deadlines and winding up orders are being sent so they go live at around 2 months after the due date for late filing of financials.

Should not get to that though without good reason.

I agree I think something has come to light after group accounts filed (early due bond terms) and filing the subsidiary ones. It could be restructuring or it could be there are doubts about refinancing and therefore the going concern.

sounds like the going concern may be the issue - Auditors not wanting to sign it off, whereas financing becomes an issue if not signed off

skybluesam66 · May 30, 2022

TomRad85 said:
Wow! I knew it was dead in there but that's tragic... well its not its fucking hilarious, but you know what I mean.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

we used to get more than that for a Tuesday night league 2 game

oldfiver · May 30, 2022

oldskyblue58 said:
Agree with most of that. However Companies House has been getting stricter about deadlines and winding up orders are being sent so they go live at around 2 months after the due date for late filing of financials.

Should not get to that though without good reason.

I agree I think something has come to light after group accounts filed (early due bond terms) and filing the subsidiary ones. It could be restructuring or it could be there are doubts about refinancing and therefore the going concern.

Agree with CH and getting tighter on filing - but if you allow for someone agreeing to this it is barely 5 weeks. Then they issue warnings first not straight to WU threats

WASPS Holdings was signed off in November 2021 so presumably there was no problem with ACL then.

If something has come to light since then - it does not stop the accounts being filed with appropriate caveats and audit statement.

oldfiver · May 30, 2022

duffer said:
Maybe our new mayor is wondering if he's backed the wrong horse too...

Didn't he sell the horse?

Grendel · May 30, 2022

oldfiver said:
Agree with CH and getting tighter on filing - but if you allow for someone agreeing to this it is barely 5 weeks. Then they issue warnings first not straight to WU threats

WASPS Holdings was signed off in November 2021 so presumably there was no problem with ACL then.

If something has come to light since then - it does not stop the accounts being filed with appropriate caveats and audit statement.

Surely the settlement confirmation of the bond through refinancing is the issue - don’t ACL 2006 have most of the liability on their account?

oldfiver · May 30, 2022

Grendel said:
Surely the settlement confirmation of the bond through refinancing is the issue - don’t ACL 2006 have most of the liability on their account?

WASPS HOLDING CO and ACL have guaranteed the Bond Payments
ACL 2006 has supplied the Lease as Security

Currently ( I think) WASPS FINANCE PLC is in default which will ripple upwards once the various guarantees are called

If what you say is correct then at November 5 when WASPS were signed off - all was OK. Between then and March 31 something changes - because they did not file. But the Bondholders not informed but that should not stop the filing

Also I have not seen the usual 6 monthly financial review to December 2021 ?

But May 14th they announce they cannot pay the Bond but show confidence it will be paid

Gynnsthetonic · May 30, 2022

Could the lease be sold to another company where both CCFC and Wasps both pay rent, would the freeholder have any say in the matter, and how much could the lease be sold for realistically?

Grendel · May 30, 2022

Gynnsthetonic said:
Could the lease be sold to another company where both CCFC and Wasps both pay rent, would the freeholder have any say in the matter, and how much could the lease be sold for realistically?

The main lease certainly can be sold and ccfc and wasps RFC would be protected as sub tenants

I’m sure no one would be offering more than £35 million

The real question surely is if the whole wasps business closed as it couldn’t meet the bond commitments who owns the lease and what then happens

Grendel · May 30, 2022

I’m sure Italia said he invested £1,000 in the bonds. We should all be with him at this difficult time

Terry Gibson's perm · May 30, 2022

Grendel said:
I’m sure Italia said he invested £1,000 in the bonds. We should all be with him at this difficult time

Best start a crowd funding page for him should raise about 50p.

duffer · May 30, 2022

oldfiver said:
WASPS HOLDING CO and ACL have guaranteed the Bond Payments
ACL 2006 has supplied the Lease as Security

Currently ( I think) WASPS FINANCE PLC is in default which will ripple upwards once the various guarantees are called

If what you say is correct then at November 5 when WASPS were signed off - all was OK. Between then and March 31 something changes - because they did not file. But the Bondholders not informed but that should not stop the filing

Also I have not seen the usual 6 monthly financial review to December 2021 ?

But May 14th they announce they cannot pay the Bond but show confidence it will be paid

All was OK assuming Wasps represented their financial position to their auditors honestly.

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, to lose one set of accounts might be regarded as misfortune, to lose two looks like carelessness.

oldfiver · May 30, 2022

Grendel said:
The main lease certainly can be sold and ccfc and wasps RFC would be protected as sub tenants

I’m sure no one would be offering more than £35 million

The real question surely is if the whole wasps business closed as it couldn’t meet the bond commitments who owns the lease and what then happens

Wasps Bonds

Learn more about investing in Wasps Finance and purchasing a Bonds.

www.wasps.co.uk

Click on prospectus

Page 17

oldfiver · May 30, 2022

duffer said:
All was OK assuming Wasps represented their financial position to their auditors honestly.

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, to lose one set of accounts might be regarded as misfortune, to lose two looks like carelessness.

or :

"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."

Philosoraptor · May 30, 2022

oldfiver said:
Wasps Bonds

Learn more about investing in Wasps Finance and purchasing a Bonds.

www.wasps.co.uk

Click on prospectus

Page 17

I was wondering where that was. I was looking for the CCC agreement over the head lease, but couldn't find it anywhere.

CCFCSteve · May 30, 2022

Grendel said:
The main lease certainly can be sold and ccfc and wasps RFC would be protected as sub tenants

I’m sure no one would be offering more than £35 million

The real question surely is if the whole wasps business closed as it couldn’t meet the bond commitments who owns the lease and what then happens

If wasps/leaseholder goes bust it would be for the administrator or liquidator of the leaseholder to sell the long leasehold for the benefit of creditors inc bond holders.

Ultimately it’s likely any administrator or liquidator would work with freeholder (CCC) to find best solution ie buyer of stadium or new leaseholder for stadium

duffer · May 30, 2022

skybluesam66 said:
we used to get more than that for a Tuesday night league 2 game

I think we used to get more for the reserves, at least in the days they played at HR.

FulltimeWum · May 30, 2022

If Leicester beat them this weekend they miss out on Euro big cup.

Grendel · May 30, 2022

oldfiver said:
Wasps Bonds

Learn more about investing in Wasps Finance and purchasing a Bonds.

www.wasps.co.uk

Click on prospectus

Page 17

Im aware of the lease forfeiture clause but what does it in practice mean. It states the default position in essence is a return to the council and also will protect sub leases - us and wasps RFC I assume - but it also says something about anyone having security over ACl - is that just bondhders or could the parent company also claim to have that?

I assume the long chain of companies were set up by Richardson for a purpose

Gynnsthetonic · May 30, 2022

FulltimeWum said:
If Leicester beat them this weekend they miss out on Euro big cup.

Are Wasps waiting until the after final game until making any announcements?

Wasps downward spiral... (24 Viewers)

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