steveo1987
Well-Known Member
Kentwasp, drunkenwasps voice of reason, a very sobering post.
Wasps downward spiral... (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter CCFC54321
- Start date
I think their overall debt is closer to £65m Stand corrected…
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I wonder if Appleton or someone of his ilk is going to rock up and miraculously wasps regain the lease and business via administration and get rid of millions in debt at some point
Haha, who knows ! The problem for Wasps is that the bond holders will want repaying as much of their cash as possible and have security over the stadium (I think), so whoever is dealing with the administration/liquidation will be expected to achieve best value for the stadium lease, which makes a stitch up difficult. However, as I’ve half joked before, it still wouldnt surprise me if, given the chance, SISU low ball their offer and someone else picks it up…and maybe end up as landlord to us and Wasps
The difference with the CCFC/SISU administration was that SISU were the only ones with security via one of their other smoke and mirrors entities, so controlled the process/ appointment….then Appleton played the ‘missing golden share’ game to put other interested parties off. As SISU group were by far the largest and only secured creditor and therefore the party with the main economic interest in a sale, they got away with it
Not sure Wasps/Wasps current owners have the same luxury
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
My view on the bond holders is tough if they lose their money they were greedy hunting a big return and hopefully they get nothing back.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
From my understanding from the Prospectus, and I could be wrong here, is that security of the bond is held over the wasp group of companies.
If CCC takes the head lease back, then it will probably be easier for bondholders getting resettlements from the wasps group of businesses rather than the head lease, which has a huge clause in it.
If CCC takes the head lease back, then it will probably be easier for bondholders getting resettlements from the wasps group of businesses rather than the head lease, which has a huge clause in it.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
"We've just begged local government to keep us afloat, should I be worried?"
What do you think you dense twat.
I think they've had their brains squeezed by putting them between another bloke's legs too many times.
What do you think you dense twat.
I think they've had their brains squeezed by putting them between another bloke's legs too many times.
The CableGuy
Well-Known Member
If the WMCA agree to this they're fools. And I will open my own business, run it into the ground and goto the WMCA asking for 'public funds'.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I don't buy the argument that the money will be for dilapidations. The timing is just too convenient when they have all this money to pay and are late on it.
I understand that they may not be able to secure additional refinancing without it being sorted but they would have known that in advance, you'd think they'd have been in discussions with lenders for at least a year now. It would be incredible incompetence to let it go until after the repayment period to try and find a solution.
My guess is that they can only refinance x and they need to £13m to avoid insolvency. If they get it it will kick the can down the road but the same problems will still exist and this situation will be just over the horizon.
Surely local government won't be able to countenance it as they know it opens them up for other claims from a myriad of businesses along with legal claims of state aid.
I understand that they may not be able to secure additional refinancing without it being sorted but they would have known that in advance, you'd think they'd have been in discussions with lenders for at least a year now. It would be incredible incompetence to let it go until after the repayment period to try and find a solution.
My guess is that they can only refinance x and they need to £13m to avoid insolvency. If they get it it will kick the can down the road but the same problems will still exist and this situation will be just over the horizon.
Surely local government won't be able to countenance it as they know it opens them up for other claims from a myriad of businesses along with legal claims of state aid.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Didn't they already get millions in public funds for some bullshit around the conference hall?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Which they've not spent and not delivered, you wonder where that's gone if it's been drawn down
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Just read that Wasps thread too and I'm astounded how ignorant they are.
Honestly it's like people are questioning dear leader in N Korea.
Simon Gilbert is complaining that CCFC weren't sold the stadium even though he spent years working against CCFC in an attempt to get at sisu in tandem with Wasps' best mates at the council.
The critical thinking skills are almost 0 with it being goodies (them) vs baddies (sisu) and nothing else.
Honestly it's like people are questioning dear leader in N Korea.
Simon Gilbert is complaining that CCFC weren't sold the stadium even though he spent years working against CCFC in an attempt to get at sisu in tandem with Wasps' best mates at the council.
The critical thinking skills are almost 0 with it being goodies (them) vs baddies (sisu) and nothing else.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Surely that would have been ring fenced though.
Looks good in accounts but has no material impact.
Unless there has been some misuse of funds or corruption in the contract, neither of which can be ruled out with this relationship.
shepardo01
Well-Known Member
OSB replied to my post earlier basically saying that there is no scrutiny once you have the money. They could get the 13mil after applying for grounds/infrastructure upkeep, then bam... the Bond are all ok and paid (obviously they'll need more, but guessing the 13m applied for is that figure for a special bond related reason!)
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Young Wasps, there's a need to feel down
I said, Young Wasps, fuck off out of our ground
You can't stay there, as I'm sure you will find
You've finally run out of time
You'll get no cash from the WMCA...
I said, Young Wasps, fuck off out of our ground
You can't stay there, as I'm sure you will find
You've finally run out of time
You'll get no cash from the WMCA...
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
That wouldn't exactly encourage somebody to lend them money, either
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's quite amusing. Especially the guy claiming insider knowledge stating the hierarchy at the club aren't worried in the slightest.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
If that's true its quite astounding to be honest.
Nick
Administrator
Was that new entrance at the back included? I think they have started that but not seen it up close.
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
looking in on this, it looks like even if they get 13m, they’re still losing 10m a year. All it’s doing is kicking the can down the road. This is ending badly and I for one can’t wait…
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Wasn't aware of that - surely auditors have to account for grant spend?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
It might be bad news for CCFC so really I should be happy with things as they are for now but to be honest, it's really fucking enjoyable!
shepardo01
Well-Known Member
More interesting stuff from Mr Gilbert- Martin Reeves approaching WMids on behalf of Wasps without others knowing - stinks ..... again!!!
shepardo01
Well-Known Member
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Who pissed on Gilbert's chips? Did someone tell him duggins calls him legohead behind his back?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The first grant came from the WMCA via the CWLEP!
shepardo01
Well-Known Member
Council trying to get everyone else "on point"...
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Ha. This all seems doomed from the start then, you'd think.
Rationally, it's hard to make any kind of financial case, and a social case is pretty bloody hard for a club that didn't exist in the city until very recently!
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It was half fishing before, but CRFC to pick up the Wasps club business after an admin and take their top flight place, CCFC to pick up the stadium - everyone's a winner?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
He's massively conflicted, ex ACL director heavily involved in the ACL / CCC / SISU dispute, massively invested his own reputation in the Wasps project. If only the Tories hadn't obliterated the independent Audit functions overseeing xentral and local government...