Wasps downward spiral... (53 Viewers)

MalcSB · Jul 1, 2022

The Trustee has been challenged by one of the bond holders as to why no action has been taken with the bonds in default from both the original and revised dates. No reply has been forthcoming as yet, I wonder what penalties there are for Trustees who fail to fulfil their duties?

Who would lend, or grant, money to a failing organisation who renege/ default on agreements with investers?

MalcSB · Jul 1, 2022

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I really hope this is SISU

Could have been Wasps themselves, or Richardson. At one point the bonds were being sold at 40% of issue/ redemption price.

Gynnsthetonic · Jul 1, 2022

That Shugs is fuckin deluded, worse than our our Dubai Dodger

Peter Billing Eyes · Jul 2, 2022

Gynnsthetonic said:
That Shugs is fuckin deluded, worse than our our Dubai Dodger

Yeah, the Rammstein and Killers gigs were rescheduled from pre-pandemic. Concert organisers won’t touch the CBS with a barge pole with all this uncertainty, so good luck with that cash flow, Shugs.

CCFC54321 · Jul 2, 2022

MalcSB said:
The Trustee has been challenged by one of the bond holders as to why no action has been taken with the bonds in default from both the original and revised dates. No reply has been forthcoming as yet, I wonder what penalties there are for Trustees who fail to fulfil their duties?

Who would lend, or grant, money to a failing organisation who renege/ default on agreements with investers?

The question keeps getting asked by people I work with is how on earth can you pay back….

£35m of bond funding
£13m to CCC/WM
PLUS approx £20m current operating costs to the business?

Its impossible with their current business strategy. Am I missing something here?

oldfiver · Jul 2, 2022

CCFC54321 said:
The question keeps getting asked by people I work with is how on earth can you pay back….

£35m of bond funding
£13m to CCC/WM
PLUS approx £20m current operating costs to the business?

Its impossible with their current business strategy. Am I missing something here?

They are expecting the £13m to be a Grant (non repayable) if they put that to pay Bonds it is enormous income boost

oldfiver · Jul 2, 2022

shepardo01 said:
OF, in layman's terms, what does this mean!?
Edit...
OK... if I understand correctly, if holders worth 25% of the full amount owed decide, they can call for immediate payment.

In essence -yes. The BH can instruct him call the loans in

oldfiver · Jul 2, 2022

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I really hope this is SISU

I doubt it you are looking for upto £8.5m gamble for what reward? That's a lot if Taylor Walkers!

CCFC54321 · Jul 2, 2022

oldfiver said:
They are expecting the £13m to be a Grant (non repayable) if they put that to pay Bonds it is enormous income boost

When local businesses are struggling and a city centre that’s like steptoes backyard we potentially could give a London rugby club £13m. How morally disgusting.

They get that £13m then some understanding of how they got it needs to be carried out.

oldfiver · Jul 2, 2022

CCFC54321 said:
When local businesses are struggling and a city centre that’s like steptoes backyard we potentially could give a London rugby club £13m. How morally disgusting.

They get that £13m then some understanding of how they got it needs to be carried out.

Well I suggest you will be writing to Martin Reeves. CEO at CCC , Chairman CWLEP and roaring success as a Director of ARENA Coventry

Peter Billing · Jul 2, 2022

Surely to access WMCA public cash there must be a minimum starting point that the business is financially viable before they even assess the application. The total debt must be pushing somewhere around £70m in the next accounts. What will it be next year, £80m? What will it be in 5 years time?

Moff · Jul 2, 2022

oldfiver said:
Well I suggest you will be writing to Martin Reeves. CEO at CCC , Chairman CWLEP and roaring success as a Director of ARENA Coventry

I would imagine there would be a lot of complaints to the Local Government Ombudsman…..and possibly something Private Eye may do some digging on, as I know they have cast their eyes on Wasps and CCC before.

Grendel · Jul 2, 2022

Peter Billing said:
Surely to access WMCA public cash there must be a minimum starting point that the business is financially viable before they even assess the application. The total debt must be pushing somewhere around £70m in the next accounts. What will it be next year, £80m? What will it be in 5 years time?

They will as ever have a jolly good 5 year business plan

chiefdave · Jul 2, 2022

Grendel said:
They will as ever have a jolly good 5 year business plan

They're close to being sold out for every game don't you know. Must be true it was reported in the Telegraph.

Grendel · Jul 2, 2022

chiefdave said:
They're close to being sold out for every game don't you know. Must be true it was reported in the Telegraph.

Well they have been good at getting media onside to be fair, frankly the stadium will never make money. If Richardson is dumb enough to keep ploughing it into a lost cause that’s his problem - we should have got a 50 year lease then none of this would Matter

Terry Gibson's perm · Jul 2, 2022

Grendel said:
Well they have been good at getting media onside to be fair, frankly the stadium will never make money. If Richardson is dumb enough to keep ploughing it into a lost cause that’s his problem - we should have got a 50 year lease then none of this would Matter

I agree that the stadium doesn’t seem to be able to make money, that’s what confuses me with Sisu being so desperate to get it at one time (maybe still). The teams in the prem that are getting lots of money aren’t getting it through their stadia it’s all about the tv money and merchandise.

fernandopartridge · Jul 3, 2022

Peter Billing said:
Surely to access WMCA public cash there must be a minimum starting point that the business is financially viable before they even assess the application. The total debt must be pushing somewhere around £70m in the next accounts. What will it be next year, £80m? What will it be in 5 years time?

I award public contracts for a living, it would be an exceptional circumstance to award any money to somebody in as poor a financial position as Wasps even as a grant. Ultimately, what is the public benefit of granting funding to them?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 3, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
I award public contracts for a living, it would be an exceptional circumstance to award any money to somebody in as poor a financial position as Wasps even as a grant. Ultimately, what is the public benefit of granting funding to them?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Because they have friends in the right places-or at least they used to.

Flying Fokker · Jul 3, 2022

CCFC54321 said:
When local businesses are struggling and a city centre that’s like steptoes backyard we potentially could give a London rugby club £13m. How morally disgusting.

They get that £13m then some understanding of how they got it needs to be carried out.

Have you been to Coventry City Centre lately? It is better than you suggest. Pool Meadow/Fairfax Street is a bit ‘tired’ and no doubt other locations fit the profile.

But the prospet of money being spent on Wasps ahead of the rest of Coventry is disgusting.

Gynnsthetonic · Jul 3, 2022

Like I've said before Cov Rugger want to redevelop The Butts, surely an ideal time to apply for a grant, after all they are an iconic Rugby Club steeped in history. 13m should do it.

Grendel · Jul 3, 2022

The video interviewing Eastwood at the point of takeover is well worth a listen

He’s Tim fisher I am sure

Wasps Apply For Public Funding | Rugbydump

amp.rugbydump.com

clint van damme · Jul 3, 2022

Grendel said:
The video interviewing Eastwood at the point of takeover is well worth a listen

He’s Tim fisher I am sure

Wasps Apply For Public Funding | Rugbydump

amp.rugbydump.com

He really is!

Gynnsthetonic · Jul 3, 2022

Eastwood mentioned they were losing 3m a year, the move to Coventry instantly ramped up to 10m a year, it doesn't make sense

Gynnsthetonic · Jul 3, 2022

Still can't believe Eastwood, Vaughan or Richhardson haven't come out with any statements these past 6 weeks, totally silent, the bond holders have only had snippets from the financial trustees.

MusicDating · Jul 3, 2022

Grendel said:
The video interviewing Eastwood at the point of takeover is well worth a listen

He’s Tim fisher I am sure

Wasps Apply For Public Funding | Rugbydump

amp.rugbydump.com

Shugs 01/07/22 - 'The stadium is very far from being a white elephant. It will still be the differentiator between us and most other clubs. The stadium is Wasps future. I’m relieved we’ve got owners with such vision.'

They constantly point out how bad our owners are (we know thanks), but just accept everything their owners say without question. Bonkers.

duffer · Jul 3, 2022

MusicDating said:
Shugs 01/07/22 - 'The stadium is very far from being a white elephant. It will still be the differentiator between us and most other clubs. The stadium is Wasps future. I’m relieved we’ve got owners with such vision.'

They constantly point out how bad our owners are (we know thanks), but just accept everything their owners say without question. Bonkers.

The fact that a large part of the bond went to paying back Richardson, and that he's clearly not intending to loan them the money back again, should tell Wasps supporters a story.

Their 'white knight' has had enough, and for all of the upbeat statements about refinancing the bond repayments, they've had years to organise it but still come up short.

They're now scrabbling around for public money, most likely in the hope of somehow increasing the security they can offer another lender, but as yet there's no evidence that it will come off.

A more robust trustee might well have pulled the plug already on the bond default, but a bit like SISU's administrator, you have to wonder how independent someone appointed by Wasps themselves will really be.

Also of course, there may be the genuine concern that the true value of the stadium isn't actually enough to settle the bond repayments, so even if the trustee forced a sale the bondholders won't get a full repayment.

Any bondholder who isn't nervous, hasn't thought it through. Wasps have put themselves into a horribly precarious position, because of their hubris. "Richest club England/Europe/The World", oh dear.

Grendel · Jul 3, 2022

duffer said:
The fact that a large part of the bond went to paying back Richardson, and that he's clearly not intending to loan them the money back again, should tell Wasps supporters a story.

Their 'white knight' has had enough, and for all of the upbeat statements about refinancing the bond repayments, they've had years to organise it but still come up short.

They're now scrabbling around for public money, most likely in the hope of somehow increasing the security they can offer another lender, but as yet there's no evidence that it will come off.

A more robust trustee might well have pulled the plug already on the bond default, but a bit like SISU's administrator, you have to wonder how independent someone appointed by Wasps themselves will really be.

Also of course, there may be the genuine concern that the true value of the stadium isn't actually enough to settle the bond repayments, so even if the trustee forced a sale the bondholders won't get a full repayment.

Any bondholder who isn't nervous, hasn't thought it through. Wasps have put themselves into a horribly precarious position, because of their hubris. "Richest club England/Europe/The World", oh dear.

he did loan the money back again

Gynnsthetonic · Jul 3, 2022

duffer said:
The fact that a large part of the bond went to paying back Richardson, and that he's clearly not intending to loan them the money back again, should tell Wasps supporters a story.

Their 'white knight' has had enough, and for all of the upbeat statements about refinancing the bond repayments, they've had years to organise it but still come up short.

They're now scrabbling around for public money, most likely in the hope of somehow increasing the security they can offer another lender, but as yet there's no evidence that it will come off.

A more robust trustee might well have pulled the plug already on the bond default, but a bit like SISU's administrator, you have to wonder how independent someone appointed by Wasps themselves will really be.

Also of course, there may be the genuine concern that the true value of the stadium isn't actually enough to settle the bond repayments, so even if the trustee forced a sale the bondholders won't get a full repayment.

Any bondholder who isn't nervous, hasn't thought it through. Wasps have put themselves into a horribly precarious position, because of their hubris. "Richest club England/Europe/The World", oh dear.

No way is the stadium valuation anything like the figures they are banding around, at least 13m worth of dilaps for a start so that will come the totally amount

Gynnsthetonic · Jul 3, 2022

Grendel said:
he did loan the money back again

How much though, can't see him loaning any more.
The initial bond also paid the interest payments

Grendel · Jul 3, 2022

Gynnsthetonic said:
How much though, can't see him loaning any more.
The initial bond also paid the interest payments

He loaned the whole £10 million back didn’t he?

oldfiver · Jul 3, 2022

Gynnsthetonic said:
How much though, can't see him loaning any more.
The initial bond also paid the interest payments

Last accounts show ,£18.3m with interest accruing at 4% over Barclays Base Rate

Gynnsthetonic · Jul 3, 2022

Grendel said:
He loaned the whole £10 million back didn’t he?

Perhaps the WMCA loan will pay him back lol

slyblue57 · Jul 3, 2022

Whilst this reads great news that the London Wasps seem financially fucked does any one really believe that our beloved Coventy council will let them go bust ?

oldfiver · Jul 3, 2022

slyblue57 said:
Whilst this reads great news that the London Wasps seem financially fucked does any one really believe that our beloved Coventy council will let them go bust ?

No too much embarrassment

Unless the embarrassment can come first?

Grendel · Jul 3, 2022

oldfiver said:
No too much embarrassment

Unless the embarrassment can come first?

Some key council members aren’t that enthused anymore - I believe Duggins is though - but Jon Mutton is the thinking mans Duggins - the councillors are so stupid how do any of these people get elected.

Jane Innis is a hoot

Wasps downward spiral... (53 Viewers)

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