Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (264 Viewers)

Skyblueweeman · Nov 10, 2022

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's that word again.

Yep. I cannot recall the make up of the board of SFC at the time - although I presented to a couple of them to get the job as Business Development Manager. But there was definitely consensus to accept Sisus bid. Lowe was roundly hated in Soton at the time - likely still his.

Ironic as his greed has likely saved them from our situation over the last 15 or so years.

They were then equally lucky that Markus Liebherr wanted a slice of the Soton logistics pie in the Docks so cozied up to the City Council and then made a bid for the club and the rest is history.

MalcSB · Nov 10, 2022

To cut a long story short, there appears to be a mechanism whereby ACL can be purchased and the charge lifted without full repayment, and that’s the route being pursued.

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Grendel · Nov 10, 2022

MalcSB said:
To cut a long story short, there appears to be a mechanism whereby ACL can be purchased and the charge lifted without full repayment, and that’s the route being pursued.

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Which isn't really much of a surprise

wingy · Nov 10, 2022

Re higgs I think the debt in the club was,£4M and actual cash to the project was,£2M.
Either that or the other way round?

Colin Steins Smile · Nov 10, 2022

MalcSB said:
To cut a long story short, there appears to be a mechanism whereby ACL can be purchased and the charge lifted without full repayment, and that’s the route being pursued.

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It seems that MA had done his homework on the clauses within the bond. It makes me wonder if he bought one in the last year on the resale market, to clarify t&C's?

wingy · Nov 10, 2022

Route to disrupt the process for Sisu to exploit should they be minded to ?

Nick · Nov 10, 2022

Colin Steins Smile said:
It seems that MA had done his homework on the clauses within the bond. It makes me wonder if he bought one in the last year on the resale market, to clarify t&C's?

Or Richardson knew all along.....

The Philosopher · Nov 10, 2022

In perspective this is one poster on that forum that is saying this.

It’s hard to believe that all of the bond investors would have missed that point.

Let’s see.

tisza · Nov 10, 2022

Who actually pays the Trustee? Can't see "him" doing all this work for nothing.

fernandopartridge · Nov 10, 2022

The Philosopher said:
In perspective this is one poster on that forum that is saying this.

It’s hard to believe that all of the bond investors would have missed that point.

Let’s see.

It is a fact. The floating charge the Trustees have over the assets converts to a fixed charge in an administration event (as I guess it needs to be to calculate what they might be entitled to). From the bond prospectus:

A ‘fixed charge’ unlike a mortgage, does not transfer title, ownership or possession of the secured assets and/or interests to the Trustee (or to anyone else). Instead it allows the person giving the security to continue to own the secured assets and/or interests during the period in which the Bonds are outstanding. However, such usage is subject to certain conditions designed to maintain the value of the secured assets or interests and prevent the disposal of these assets or interests without the consent of the mortgagee (i.e. the Trustee acting on behalf of the Bondholders). On the occurrence of any enforcement event (for example, if the Issuer were to fail to make a payment of interest when due under the Bonds), the Trustee may (if directed to do so by Bondholders and subject to its being indemnified and/or secured and/or pre-funded to its satisfaction) either require the mortgagor company (i.e. the company granting the mortgage) to sell the secured assets or interests or it may take possession of the secured assets and either sell the assets or interest in it on its own or else appoint a receiver to sell the secured assets. Pursuant to the fixed charge, the Trustee, acting on behalf of the Bondholders, would have a claim over the proceeds of the sale of such secured assets in priority to any other creditors of the mortgagor company. The Trustee would, in such an event, hold all proceeds of the secured assets on trust for itself, the paying agents under the Bonds, the Account Bank and the Bondholders.

A receiver is selling the secured assets.

The Philosopher · Nov 10, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
It is a fact. The floating charge the Trustees have over the assets converts to a fixed charge in an administration event (as I guess it needs to be to calculate what they might be entitled to). From the bond prospectus:

A ‘fixed charge’ unlike a mortgage, does not transfer title, ownership or possession of the secured assets and/or interests to the Trustee (or to anyone else). Instead it allows the person giving the security to continue to own the secured assets and/or interests during the period in which the Bonds are outstanding. However, such usage is subject to certain conditions designed to maintain the value of the secured assets or interests and prevent the disposal of these assets or interests without the consent of the mortgagee (i.e. the Trustee acting on behalf of the Bondholders). On the occurrence of any enforcement event (for example, if the Issuer were to fail to make a payment of interest when due under the Bonds), the Trustee may (if directed to do so by Bondholders and subject to its being indemnified and/or secured and/or pre-funded to its satisfaction) either require the mortgagor company (i.e. the company granting the mortgage) to sell the secured assets or interests or it may take possession of the secured assets and either sell the assets or interest in it on its own or else appoint a receiver to sell the secured assets. Pursuant to the fixed charge, the Trustee, acting on behalf of the Bondholders, would have a claim over the proceeds of the sale of such secured assets in priority to any other creditors of the mortgagor company. The Trustee would, in such an event, hold all proceeds of the secured assets on trust for itself, the paying agents under the Bonds, the Account Bank and the Bondholders.

A receiver is selling the secured assets.

That needs reading a few times.

MalcSB · Nov 10, 2022

The Philosopher said:
In perspective this is one poster on that forum that is saying this.

It’s hard to believe that all of the bond investors would have missed that point.

Let’s see.

It’s one poster posting contents of a letter from ACL saying what is planned to happen, not one poster’s opinion of what may happen.

Nick · Nov 10, 2022

The Philosopher said:
In perspective this is one poster on that forum that is saying this.

It’s hard to believe that all of the bond investors would have missed that point.

Let’s see.

What's with the overdrive of being an expert on saying a lot without saying much but usually being wrong?

You do realise you don't have to acknowledge every single post, especially when you look to be wrong or unaware of a lot of it?

jordan210 · Nov 10, 2022

I wonder if MA purchased a whole load of bonds when the price dropped and now basically has control of them.

shmmeee · Nov 10, 2022

So fucking bored of talking finance on a football forum.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 10, 2022

shmmeee said:
So fucking bored of talking finance on a football forum.

tbf, the chats on 4-4-2 vs wingbacks on accountantsrus.com are something to behold

Brighton Sky Blue · Nov 10, 2022

shmmeee said:
So fucking bored of talking finance on a football forum.

What? We’re talkin’ softball

chiefdave · Nov 10, 2022

The Philosopher said:
It’s hard to believe that all of the bond investors would have missed that point.

Wonder what percentage of those who purchased bonds were people with experience of investing who would understand this type of thing and what percentage were Wasps fans who believed the rubbish about being the biggest and richest club in the world and now have a big hole in their finances.

Liquid Gold · Nov 10, 2022

chiefdave said:
Wonder what percentage of those who purchased bonds were people with experience of investing who would understand this type of thing and what percentage were Wasps fans who believed the rubbish about being the biggest and richest club in the world and now have a big hole in their finances.

Hopefully a huge percentage of the latter.

fernandopartridge · Nov 10, 2022

jordan210 said:
I wonder if MA purchased a whole load of bonds when the price dropped and now basically has control of them.

He doesn't need control of them

tisza · Nov 10, 2022

chiefdave said:
Wonder what percentage of those who purchased bonds were people with experience of investing who would understand this type of thing and what percentage were Wasps fans who believed the rubbish about being the biggest and richest club in the world and now have a big hole in their finances.

Think that's a key issue. Probably a lot of fans/rugby people at the beginning. Also a few sharks probably started buying up when bond price fell.

MalcSB · Nov 10, 2022

tisza said:
Think that's a key issue. Probably a lot of fans/rugby people at the beginning. Also a few sharks probably started buying up when bond price fell.

Two things - (a) not all Wasps fans will have bought bonds and (b) Wasps don’t have many fans to start with.

tisza · Nov 10, 2022

Don't see what leg the bondholders have to stand on. Unless they have sufficient funds to run the company, pay creditors Inc the interest due now surely ACL would have to be liquidated.?

skybluetony176 · Nov 10, 2022

shmmeee said:
So fucking bored of talking finance on a football forum.

I know. Especially when the arguments are Wafer thin.

tisza · Nov 10, 2022

MalcSB said:
Two things - (a) not all Wasps fans will have bought bonds and (b) Wasps don’t have many fans to start with.

Hard to imagine too many "professional" investors getting involved in a bond that's primary function was to clear debt

Mcbean · Nov 10, 2022

tisza said:
Hard to imagine too many "professional" investors getting involved in a bond that's primary function was to clear debt

basically free cash

Calista · Nov 10, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
I know. Especially when the arguments are Wafer thin.

An intentional confectionery pun Tony?

Samo · Nov 10, 2022

Calista said:
An intentional confectionery pun Tony?

Probably, this thread is choc full of them!

MalcSB · Nov 10, 2022

tisza said:
Hard to imagine too many "professional" investors getting involved in a bond that's primary function was to clear debt

It was a good interest rate with what they thought was good security.

Colin Steins Smile · Nov 10, 2022

Calista said:
An intentional confectionery pun Tony?

Tony's been too Smarty for some of us

skybluetony176 · Nov 10, 2022

Calista said:
An intentional confectionery pun Tony?

I’m doing my best to switch the thread back confectionery pun’s. Basically I’m trying to turn it on a Daim.

skybluetony176 · Nov 10, 2022

Colin Steins Smile said:
Tony's been too Smarty for some of us

Yeah I’m a Smartie pants.

Colin Steins Smile · Nov 10, 2022

skybluetony176 said:
I’m doing my best to switch the thread back confectionery pun’s. Basically I’m trying to turn it on a Daim.

I think you need to wispa it

skybluetony176 · Nov 10, 2022

I think the bond holders should have paid attention to the old adage. Never a borrower or Lindor be.

usskyblue · Nov 10, 2022

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