Wasps owner rules out allowing CCFC to have a stake in ACL as well as buying the... (1 Viewer)

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

martcov said:
Not bothered what they were thinking. Fact is we are there ( at the Ricoh under Wasps teure ) at the moment and don't have an alternative. We have to take it as it is.

True, it is what it is. Wasps won't be moving back any time soon, there are those who still seem to think though that this is a great outcome, or at least thats how they come across.

All I want is an acknowledgement that this is a shitty outcome for the club and CCFC long term will likely be worse off for Wasps being here. Some people refuse to even acknowledge that there is anything wrong with the current rental/ownership arrangement as it and treat Wasps arrival as some sort of blessing. italiahorse

EastLancsCov · Apr 17, 2015

Ashdown said:
Just as an aside, a guy in the Hinckley pub I was in last night informed me that Leicester Tigers were bringing up to 21000 supporters to the Wasps fixture on the 9th May !! Not sure how true that figure is but the away support will flood into Cov.

Haha.
That's anti Wasps propaganda at its finest.

hutch1972 · Apr 17, 2015

So they have "upped the sporting profile of the city substantially and everyone appreciates them being here", i dont think so you smug twat.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

Ashdown said:
Just as an aside, a guy in the Hinckley pub I was in last night informed me that Leicester Tigers were bringing up to 21000 supporters to the Wasps fixture on the 9th May !! Not sure how true that figure is but the away support will flood into Cov.

not going to lie, I will piss myself laughing if that turns out to be true

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
We don't have to assume the worst, it's there in black and white - we're not going to get a share of the stadium. Everyone here who banged on about needing to talk to Wasps to try to get a share should surely accept that it's not going to happen.

It seems clear that Wasps think they need the 24/7/365 revenues to make their club a success, but apparently you think CCFC can thrive without them.

The choice here seems pretty clear to me - we can stay as Wasps tenants and continue to struggle, or set up elsewhere and most likely continue to struggle. Some choice.

And yet there's still a pretence from some that the decision to sell to Wasps wouldn't impact the club.

I've never said it wouldn't impact the club. I've never said CCFC would thrive without the incomes.
I have said we are where we are, we can't do much about it so we might as well concentrate on things we can control.

So, good management of the team by TM will be a start. Survive first, keep TM, improve the team, then start winning, start challenging and see what happens.

Fans should do all they can to push these items by attending, hopefully (eventually) enjoying, then buying season/match tickets, merchandise etc
Sisu should make it easy to purchase season tickets, take advantage of the Ricohs ticketing, improve walk up, give us items of quality that we want to buy, sell it at matches professionally.

I'm sure a team at the top of L1 will get well supported and start to buy like we used to do. Success will improve sales all round. Whether it's enough who knows ?
Do these things, and there's plenty more, and lets see where it takes us.
Who knows we may even be a saleable asset for Sisu !!

hutch1972 · Apr 17, 2015

CCFC said:
not going to lie, I will piss myself laughing if that turns out to be true

I said the same yesterday, they get 25k at home games and with it being their 1st visit and so close that figure could be possible. LMFAO

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

stupot07 said:
As I've said before, now wasps are here I can't see a long term future (10-15+ years time) for us at the Ricoh.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

You may be right but at point do you give up?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

I don't think they will bring 21k, could be around 12k though.

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

CCFC said:
I've yet to see a reasonable argument that convinces me otherwise, or even allows me to understand your alternative point of view. Todays article only reinforces my belief

Just go and watch matches and enjoy your team.
The Ricoh looks (almost) exactly the same as it was 5 years ago when it felt like ours, when the rent was 10 times what it is now, when we had no access to any income, when we worried about our team and nothing else.

You can't change anything.
Have a good moan and groan about it. Take it out on Wasps, me or others if it makes you feel better.

What's done is done

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

italiahorse said:
You may be right but at point do you give up?

You don't, you just suck it up and get on with it according to you?

That why I'm mentally preparing myself for us to now be a small club who are in L1 and hopefully the occasional spell in the championship.

martcov · Apr 17, 2015

CCFC said:
True, it is what it is. Wasps won't be moving back any time soon, there are those who still seem to think though that this is a great outcome, or at least thats how they come across.

All I want is an acknowledgement that this is a shitty outcome for the club and CCFC long term will likely be worse off for Wasps being here. Some people refuse to even acknowledge that there is anything wrong with the current rental/ownership arrangement as it and treat Wasps arrival as some sort of blessing. italiahorse

As it stands it is a disaster. Wasps arrival is not a blessing for city fans, but was foreseeable when our owners kept insisting that we don't want the Ricoh ( except unencumbered ) - and have confirmed that they wouldn't have accepted the deal Wasps have.

I have no idea how TF gets out of the current situation, but for the present we have to rent - I accept the rental agreement, which is not too bad, short term because of the lack of alternative.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

italiahorse said:
Just go and watch matches and enjoy your team.
The Ricoh looks (almost) exactly the same as it was 5 years ago when it felt like ours, when the rent was 10 times what it is now, when we had no access to any income, when we worried about our team and nothing else.

You can't change anything.
Have a good moan and groan about it. Take it out on Wasps, me or others if it makes you feel better.

What's done is done

Thats what I'm planning to do, just continue as I was with my expectations now lowered according to the situation we are in.

albatross · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
We don't have to assume the worst, it's there in black and white - we're not going to get a share of the stadium. Everyone here who banged on about needing to talk to Wasps to try to get a share should surely accept that it's not going to happen.

It seems clear that Wasps think they need the 24/7/365 revenues to make their club a success, but apparently you think CCFC can thrive without them.

The choice here seems pretty clear to me - we can stay as Wasps tenants and continue to struggle, or set up elsewhere and most likely continue to struggle. Some choice.

And yet there's still a pretence from some that the decision to sell to Wasps wouldn't impact the club.

Duffer once again this access to 365 revenue seems to be accepted wisdom. Running a rugby club with a salary cap and Top Tier revenues probably costs close to what CCFC currently spends. If you ever get into the Premier league these 365 Revenues are insignificant as TV and PL prize money are about 100m. If anyone is to convince me that 365 revenue income from the stadium is the secret to the success of CCFC can somebody please tell me what it will contribute to the bottom line of the clubs balance sheet.

Playing there for 100Ka year + share of the F+B is pretty much like playing there for Free. and the best way to re-construct our finances.

I don't see how this statement from WASPS changes anything at all and certainly has not impacted our short to mid term position (2018) it has not cost 1p more or deprived us of 1p income from when they arrived.

Do you think it is wise to fund a 30+million stadium construction without moving up the leagues first?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

albatross said:
Duffer once again this access to 365 revenue seems to be accepted wisdom. Running a rugby club with a salary cap and Top Tier revenues probably costs close to what CCFC currently spends. If you ever get into the Premier league these 365 Revenues are insignificant as TV and PL prize money are about 100m. If anyone is to convince me that 365 revenue income from the stadium is the secret to the success of CCFC can somebody please tell me what it will contribute to the bottom line of the clubs balance sheet.

Playing there for 100Ka year + share of the F+B is pretty much like playing there for Free. and the best way to re-construct our finances.

I don't see how this statement from WASPS changes anything at all and certainly has not impacted our short to mid term position (2018) it has not cost 1p more or deprived us of 1p income from when they arrived.

Do you think it is wise to fund a 30+million stadium construction without moving up the leagues first?

Your right, if we ever got to the premier league the stadium revenues would be much smaller than the television revenue. As it stands though we don't have the financial power to sustain a push back to the premier league or even stay in the championship for more than a few seasons.

Otis · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
We don't have to assume the worst, it's there in black and white - we're not going to get a share of the stadium. Everyone here who banged on about needing to talk to Wasps to try to get a share should surely accept that it's not going to happen.

It seems clear that Wasps think they need the 24/7/365 revenues to make their club a success, but apparently you think CCFC can thrive without them.

The choice here seems pretty clear to me - we can stay as Wasps tenants and continue to struggle, or set up elsewhere and most likely continue to struggle. Some choice.

And yet there's still a pretence from some that the decision to sell to Wasps wouldn't impact the club.

I'm sure if someone like me, tonight's EuroMillions winner, threw £10m-£15m their way they'd soon have a change of heart.

It's a definite no, but if an investor threw in a pot full of money, who knows. Money talks. I'm not saying that is going to happen, but people do say all sorts of things 'That boat has sailed' - Sisu.' We will protect the interests of Coventry City FC' - CCC, etc.

There is still the land around the Ricoh, which Wasps don't seem to be showing any interest in.

I find that lately it is hard to believe anyone in this sorry saga.

Would ask though, why didn't people believe Richardson when he said he wanted to work in partnership with CCFC, but do believe him when he has said no shared ownership of the Ricoh? :thinking about:

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

Otis said:
Would ask though, why didn't people believe Richardson when he said he wanted to work in partnership with CCFC, but do believe him when he has said no shared ownership of the Ricoh? :thinking about:

Because what he has said now reinforce the belief that he was lying when he said he wanted to work in partnership?

If someone says they've done something and you don't believe they have done it, then a month later turn around and say I haven't actually done it. Are you going to say I knew it or are you now going to start believe that they have actually done it:thinking about:

duffer · Apr 17, 2015

Otis said:
I'm sure if someone like me, tonight's EuroMillions winner, threw £10m-£15m their way they'd soon have a change of heart.

It's a definite no, but if an investor threw in a pot full of money, who knows. Money talks. I'm not saying that is going to happen, but people do say all sorts of things 'That boat has sailed' - Sisu.' We will protect the interests of Coventry City FC' - CCC, etc.

There is still the land around the Ricoh, which Wasps don't seem to be showing any interest in.

I find that lately it is hard to believe anyone in this sorry saga.

Would ask though, why didn't people believe Richardson when he said he wanted to work in partnership with CCFC, but do believe him when he has said no shared ownership of the Ricoh? :thinking about:

C'mon Otis - it's there in black and white.

I didn't believe Richardson when he said he wanted to work in partnership with CCFC, because it was obvious to anyone who cared to look that what Wasps wanted was the stadium and they'd have said anything to get it. It also suited the council to believe it. Now he's got the Ricoh, he's confirmed Wasps intent for anyone who had any doubts.

Like you say, it's a definite 'no' - now we can move away from the pretence that all SISU had to do was talk to Wasps to get a deal.

duffer · Apr 17, 2015

albatross said:
Duffer once again this access to 365 revenue seems to be accepted wisdom. Running a rugby club with a salary cap and Top Tier revenues probably costs close to what CCFC currently spends. If you ever get into the Premier league these 365 Revenues are insignificant as TV and PL prize money are about 100m. If anyone is to convince me that 365 revenue income from the stadium is the secret to the success of CCFC can somebody please tell me what it will contribute to the bottom line of the clubs balance sheet.

Playing there for 100Ka year + share of the F+B is pretty much like playing there for Free. and the best way to re-construct our finances.

I don't see how this statement from WASPS changes anything at all and certainly has not impacted our short to mid term position (2018) it has not cost 1p more or deprived us of 1p income from when they arrived.

Do you think it is wise to fund a 30+million stadium construction without moving up the leagues first?

It seems to be accepted wisdom because it actually makes pretty good sense. It certainly makes good sense for Wasps, which is presumably why they are not interested in selling it.

FFP and SCMP clearly impose problems that require broader income streams than we currently have. Saying those problems won't exist if we get into the Premiership is backwards logic, we'd need to get there first!

You can't reconstruct your finances when you ain't bringing in much money to start with, and you can't build a successful team without the ability to pay for it.

I think I've made the point that either option now, staying at the Ricoh or looking to build our own stadium, looks pretty poor. Personally I'd still be minded to move out if we could see a reasonable financial case made for it - it looks a lot like we're going nowhere if we stay where we are. Others differ, of course.

However, if you can't see that selling to Wasps has seriously limited the future options of both CCFC and CRFC, then in truth I find that remarkable.

Ian1779 · Apr 17, 2015

albatross said:
Duffer once again this access to 365 revenue seems to be accepted wisdom. Running a rugby club with a salary cap and Top Tier revenues probably costs close to what CCFC currently spends. If you ever get into the Premier league these 365 Revenues are insignificant as TV and PL prize money are about 100m. If anyone is to convince me that 365 revenue income from the stadium is the secret to the success of CCFC can somebody please tell me what it will contribute to the bottom line of the clubs balance sheet.

Playing there for 100Ka year + share of the F+B is pretty much like playing there for Free. and the best way to re-construct our finances.

I don't see how this statement from WASPS changes anything at all and certainly has not impacted our short to mid term position (2018) it has not cost 1p more or deprived us of 1p income from when they arrived.

Do you think it is wise to fund a 30+million stadium construction without moving up the leagues first?

Wasps are already a lot of the way there. They already play in the top division of domestic rugby and where down to 11th (out of 12!) you play in European competition of some sorts. Yet they still need to own a stadium and have access to 365 revenue.

We are in the 3rd tier - if people can't see how this kind of ownership would be crucial to us I don't know how more obvious it can be.

I do agree though that the higher up the pyramid we are, the better it would be for funding a new stadium.

Otis · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
C'mon Otis - it's there in black and white.

I didn't believe Richardson when he said he wanted to work in partnership with CCFC, because it was obvious to anyone who cared to look that what Wasps wanted was the stadium and they'd have said anything to get it. It also suited the council to believe it. Now he's got the Ricoh, he's confirmed Wasps intent for anyone who had any doubts.

Like you say, it's a definite 'no' - now we can move away from the pretence that all SISU had to do was talk to Wasps to get a deal.

It does indeed seem a definite no, but he did also say about CCFC's involvement in the stadium, 'We haven’t thought about that, we haven’t talked about that, nobody has posed that question to us before.'

duffer · Apr 17, 2015

Otis said:
It does indeed seem a definite no, but he did also say about CCFC's involvement in the stadium, 'We haven’t thought about that, we haven’t talked about that, nobody has posed that question to us before.'

Perhaps we're reading this differently Otis, because this is the line that jumps out at me...

“The ownership is as it is. That’s the way it’s going to stay.”

Happy, as ever, to agree to differ - appreciate you're offering an honest opinion here, but I can't see this as anything but negative for the future of CCFC.

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

CCFC said:
You don't, you just suck it up and get on with it according to you?

That why I'm mentally preparing myself for us to now be a small club who are in L1 and hopefully the occasional spell in the championship.

Good luck with that vision.
I'll just do what I can for CCFC and ignore what I can't change or influence.

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

CCFC said:
Thats what I'm planning to do, just continue as I was with my expectations now lowered according to the situation we are in.

So when it all works out it will be a bonus ?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
Perhaps we're reading this differently Otis, because this is the line that jumps out at me...

“The ownership is as it is. That’s the way it’s going to stay.”

Happy, as ever, to agree to differ - appreciate you're offering an honest opinion here, but I can't see this as anything but negative for the future of CCFC.

A bit like Joy "The clubs not for sale","I want my investment back" so it is for sale at the right price. This is the problem unless you ask you don't know what the price is. If I was loaded and owned CCFC it would 100% not be for sale,not one bit to another business,the same cannot be said for either CCFC or ACL.

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

CCFC said:
Your right, if we ever got to the premier league the stadium revenues would be much smaller than the television revenue. As it stands though we don't have the financial power to sustain a push back to the premier league or even stay in the championship for more than a few seasons.

Unless we do a Bournemouth or a Blackpool ?
Unlike them though our potential support in the PL and in a first class stadium will give us a chance.

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
C'mon Otis - it's there in black and white.

I didn't believe Richardson when he said he wanted to work in partnership with CCFC, because it was obvious to anyone who cared to look that what Wasps wanted was the stadium and they'd have said anything to get it. It also suited the council to believe it. Now he's got the Ricoh, he's confirmed Wasps intent for anyone who had any doubts.

Like you say, it's a definite 'no' - now we can move away from the pretence that all SISU had to do was talk to Wasps to get a deal.

The deal we talked about was not to get a share of the stadium though.
The deal is to get what we can in terms of cheap rental and access to related incomes generated by CCFC. Particularly long term.
Sisu need to do some work to be trusted before anyone would consider working with them in a partnership in ACL. Their track record is abysmal.
If you read into the article I would say that Sisu have not asked and Wasps have not had to say no.
Mind you, would Sisu ask at the moment, if they are dragging related matters through court and talking about a new stadium ?

duffer · Apr 17, 2015

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
A bit like Joy "The clubs not for sale","I want my investment back" so it is for sale at the right price. This is the problem unless you ask you don't know what the price is. If I was loaded and owned CCFC it would 100% not be for sale,not one bit to another business,the same cannot be said for either CCFC or ACL.

What about if you were loaded and owned Wasps and ACL? I'm sure if you offered Wasps £100 million, they might change their minds. Ditto SISU.

That doesn't alter the fact that it was a load of bollocks saying that all that SISU need to do is talk to Wasps to get a deal. Kind of awkward for some now that the truth has been directly confirmed.

duffer · Apr 17, 2015

italiahorse said:
The deal we talked about was not to get a share of the stadium though.
The deal is to get what we can in terms of cheap rental and access to related incomes generated by CCFC. Particularly long term.
Sisu need to do some work to be trusted before anyone would consider working with them in a partnership in ACL. Their track record is abysmal.
If you read into the article I would say that Sisu have not asked and Wasps have not had to say no.
Mind you, would Sisu ask at the moment, if they are dragging related matters through court and talking about a new stadium ?

There isn't a partnership to be had in ACL. Wasps have just confirmed that. Read the article.

Can we stop bloody pretending that there was, just to justify supporting them moving here.

I'm confused as to why anyone would want a long term rent deal locking the club out of any chance of moving on, but regardless banging on incessantly about how bad SISU are doesn't change the fact that we're screwed whoever owns us now that Wasps are here.

Unless of course Wasps fail, which is less likely as long as people are prepared to shelve their morals to watch a game they've never previously watched at a franchise club they've never previously supported.

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
What about if you were loaded and owned Wasps and ACL? I'm sure if you offered Wasps £100 million, they might change their minds. Ditto SISU.

That doesn't alter the fact that it was a load of bollocks saying that all that SISU need to do is talk to Wasps to get a deal. Kind of awkward for some now that the truth has been directly confirmed.

Who was talking about a deal with Wasps to part own the Ricoh ?
Long term rental, access to revenues and better facilities for CCFC is all that will be on the table.
It's never been on the cards. I wouldn't touch Sisu at the moment with a barge pole.

italiahorse · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
There isn't a partnership to be had in ACL. Wasps have just confirmed that. Read the article.

Can we stop bloody pretending that there was, just to justify supporting them moving here.

I'm confused as to why anyone would want a long term rent deal locking the club out of any chance of moving on, but regardless banging on incessantly about how bad SISU are doesn't change the fact that we're screwed whoever owns us now that Wasps are here.

Unless of course Wasps fail, which is less likely as long as people are prepared to shelve their morals to watch a game they've never previously watched at a franchise club they've never previously supported.

There never was a chance of a partnership in ACL and I never said there was.
Wasps won't fail and I will continue to support both.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

italiahorse said:
Unless we do a Bournemouth or a Blackpool ?
Unlike them though our potential support in the PL and in a first class stadium will give us a chance.

Bournemouth have been bankrolled by a wealthy backer, Blackpool fluked it and those happen once in a bluemoon.

You are right here, the only chance we have to be back in the premier league are if a wealthy individual funds it or we fluke it and those things just don't happen to us.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 17, 2015

italiahorse said:
Good luck with that vision.
I'll just do what I can for CCFC and ignore what I can't change or influence.

Not a vision, just a reality.

albatross · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
It seems to be accepted wisdom because it actually makes pretty good sense. It certainly makes good sense for Wasps, which is presumably why they are not interested in selling it.

FFP and SCMP clearly impose problems that require broader income streams than we currently have. Saying those problems won't exist if we get into the Premiership is backwards logic, we'd need to get there first!

You can't reconstruct your finances when you ain't bringing in much money to start with, and you can't build a successful team without the ability to pay for it.

I think I've made the point that either option now, staying at the Ricoh or looking to build our own stadium, looks pretty poor. Personally I'd still be minded to move out if we could see a reasonable financial case made for it - it looks a lot like we're going nowhere if we stay where we are. Others differ, of course.

However, if you can't see that selling to Wasps has seriously limited the future options of both CCFC and CRFC, then in truth I find that remarkable.

Duffer please can you let me know how it makes sense ? is this 365 revenue a religion that is now accepted on faith alone? Still nobody can tell me how much income will these these 365 revenues will bring in to CCFC.

In short how much income will it bring to the club given we have to shell out a considerable sum in order to even start collecting them.

I still think that even in wasps case the majority of their revenue will be generated from Ticket sales and TV , their spend is not wildly off CCFC salary spend so even a moderate income in the top league in rugby in % terms contributes more to the club over a football club.

If we are to move up the leagues our salary increases as will our sponsorship, ticket sales, prize money and TV revenue. All of these will dwarf the dividend from any profits from ACL or any stadium we are to build.

I think the financial case is clear , stay put for now, concentrate on the team.

With regards to any limited future of CCFC and CRFC I had not commented as I think CCFC's earning potential is intrinsically tied to our Progress and if we are to have ambitions of being a premier league club then I do feel that stadium revenue becomes irrelevant.

CRFC well time will tell , I certainly went a few more times

Ian1779 · Apr 17, 2015

albatross said:
I think the financial case is clear , stay put for now, concentrate on the team.

If this was they way we were going to go then we would also have to accept that we will be reliant on SISU to bankroll this, and in the unlikely event that they leave, we will be at the mercy of new owners faced with the same struggles, and expecting the same handouts.

There is some amusement in the fact that the supposed best case scenario is to stay at the Ricoh, but at the same time arguing that the model of fan based ownership is the way to go. The two will never be able to happen together.. unless of course we are happy spending our future in League 2.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 17, 2015

duffer said:
What about if you were loaded and owned Wasps and ACL? I'm sure if you offered Wasps £100 million, they might change their minds. Ditto SISU.

That doesn't alter the fact that it was a load of bollocks saying that all that SISU need to do is talk to Wasps to get a deal. Kind of awkward for some now that the truth has been directly confirmed.

I have never said that all you have to do is ask and they would give you what you want,but if you dont talk you've got no chance of getting have you.As for £100 million you would get Wasps,ACL,CCFC and still have millions left.

Wasps owner rules out allowing CCFC to have a stake in ACL as well as buying the... (1 Viewer)

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