Wasps takeover bid could be agreed in private (3 Viewers)

rupert_bear · Sep 26, 2014

A provocative statement Wasps to buy 90% of ACL, but that isn't 90% of the Ricoh is it. ACL own 50% of the Ricoh shares and the Higgs the other 50%, so as I see it if that statement is correct Wasps would own 45% and the council owned 10% leaving the Higgs half up for grabs and with the councils 10% it could leave nobody in overall control, so if sisu or anyone else for that matter want part of the Ricoh action all they need to do is come to an agreement with Higgs or is that too simplistic

Sky Blue Dal · Sep 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
He refused access to councillors individual notes.

Yes he refused access to individual councillors notes as he felt they were private and not necessary for the hearing and that the minutes of the meeting was enough for them to work on. Strangley SISU's lawyers did not question thoughs minutes in the hearing.

torchomatic · Sep 26, 2014

Absolutely. If a new owner came and bought CCFC tomorrow we still wouldn't own our own ground. And we never will.

davebart said:
What almost everyone on this (and almost every other thread) fails to appreciate in their biased rantings is that CCFC will never own their own ground. SISU could/might and that is a very different proposition.

skybluetony176 · Sep 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
There is a significant amount of clubs where the ground is owned by a 'holding' company, not actually by the club itself - a notable one being Arsenal. This is what would happen in our case most likely.

It is a moot point.

This is not a moot point. SISU have not and seem reluctant to confirm that this will be the case. If the last few years have taught us nothing it should be not to take anything for granted.

Jack Griffin · Sep 26, 2014

Otis said:
I do think maybe we are all overreacting slightly.

The council have to do right by the city of Coventry. They represent the city and all its citzens. I'm not saying that it is impossible for them to do the dirty on CCFC and CRFC, but I honestly don't think they would dare screwing us both over.

I do think the rugby team may suffer the most here though and that would be a great shame if true.

If they did the dirty it would be like to Turkeys voting for Xmas.
SISU on the other hand are beholden only to their anonymous investors.

Ian1779 · Sep 26, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
This is not a moot point. SISU have not and seem reluctant to confirm that this will be the case. If the last few years have taught us nothing it should be not to take anything for granted.

I seem to remember Fisher quite clearly setting out that was how the detail would be when asked about who would own the ground.

Obviously as he didn't mention the term 'liquidation' in the sentence you automatically dismissed it as rubbish.

rupert_bear · Sep 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
There is a significant amount of clubs where the ground is owned by a 'holding' company, not actually by the club itself - a notable one being Arsenal. This is what would happen in our case most likely.

It is a moot point.

I doubt if there is any ground owned by the football club or team. The Russian at Chelsea has tried a few times to sell and move from Stamford Bridge but been thwarted by the supporters.

Jack Griffin · Sep 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
I seem to remember Fisher quite clearly setting out that was how the detail would be when asked about who would own the ground.

Obviously as he didn't mention the term 'liquidation' in the sentence you automatically dismissed it as rubbish.

ISTR him saying the ownership structure had not been decided.
You can find the quote still on youtube in sound recordings the forums held last July..

SkyBlueScottie · Sep 26, 2014

Sky Blue Dal said:
I think CCC plans when the stadium was built was to only hold onto it for short term and then sell it off to the club and to allow them to concentrate on other business investments in the city.

It's just that SISU come along with no real appetite to do a reasonable deal and hence them having to hold onto it longer than expected. The 14m bail out might have accelerated this Wasp deal too.

The stadium for the CCC had become an obstacle to allow them to concentrate on other ventures in the city.

Disagree there, I think they saw the club and the rent it was "paying" as a means of having it's cake and eating it. They had ownership of the stadium and controlled it somewhat through ACL while the rent which we paid each month was covering the mortgage (until we stopped paying it of course)

stupot07 · Sep 26, 2014

rupert_bear said:
A provocative statement Wasps to buy 90% of ACL, but that isn't 90% of the Ricoh is it. ACL own 50% of the Ricoh shares and the Higgs the other 50%, so as I see it if that statement is correct Wasps would own 45% and the council owned 10% leaving the Higgs half up for grabs and with the councils 10% it could leave nobody in overall control, so if sisu or anyone else for that matter want part of the Ricoh action all they need to do is come to an agreement with Higgs or is that too simplistic

That's wrong.

Ccc own 100% freehold.

The 50 year lease/leasehold of the Ricoh is own by ACL.

ACL are owned by ccc 50:50 Higgs

ACL own 77%(?) of IEC (sp?).

So wasps owning 90% of ACL would pretty much mean owning 90% of the Ricoh leasehold and 69.3% of IEC.

Not 45%.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Jack Griffin · Sep 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
That's wrong.

Ccc own 100% freehold.

The 50 year lease/leasehold of the Ricoh is own by ACL.

ACL are owned by ccc 50:50 Higgs

ACL own 77%(?) of IEC (sp?).

So wasps owning 90% of ACL would pretty much mean owning 90% of the Ricoh leasehold and 69.3% of IEC.

Not 45%.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Yeah, the story is Wasps take 90% of ACL, so Higgs gets out & sells all its shares to them & the council retains 10% of ACL.
We know nothing, they may be looking to extend the lease & buy adjoining land or something as part of the deal.
Many possibilities exist..

rupert_bear · Sep 26, 2014

If you step back a bit and look at the whole scenario we can perhaps see why sisu made the desperate decision to move to Northampton. They had the opportunity to buy into the Ricoh through their then c.e.o. Imre omre or whatever his name was,but he rejected the idea. SISU imo blew it big time and tried to claw the opportunity back. There is huge potential at the Ricoh, apart from a major Rugby Union club in the winter months why not a Rugby League outfit in the summer too, they, sisu, fucked up big time I reckon.

SkyBlueScottie · Sep 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
That's wrong.

Ccc own 100% freehold.

The 50 year lease/leasehold of the Ricoh is own by ACL.

ACL are owned by ccc 50:50 Higgs

ACL own 77%(?) of IEC (sp?).

So wasps owning 90% of ACL would pretty much mean owning 90% of the Ricoh leasehold and 69.3% of IEC.

Not 45%.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

What a mess!!

rupert_bear · Sep 26, 2014

That might be correct I don't know. So what you are saying if there was an issue and ACL were for and Higgs charity against ACL carry the vote, if that's the case ownership is not 50/50 or is it ?

stupot07 · Sep 26, 2014

rupert_bear said:
That might be correct I don't know. So what you are saying if there was an issue and ACL were for and Higgs charity against ACL carry the vote, if that's the case ownership is not 50/50 or is it ?

You're getting ACL, Higgs and ccc confused

My understanding that they each have the power to veto.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

skybluetony176 · Sep 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
I seem to remember Fisher quite clearly setting out that was how the detail would be when asked about who would own the ground.

Obviously as he didn't mention the term 'liquidation' in the sentence you automatically dismissed it as rubbish.

Really? Do you have a link? You're not the first person to say something along these lines on here. But always when asked no evidence have ever been provided (to my knowledge) to back up this claim.

rupert_bear · Sep 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
You're getting ACL, Higgs and ccc confused

My understanding that they each have the power to veto.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

If I win the big one on the Euro lottery tonight I will put that right i'll buy it.
I

oldfiver · Sep 26, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
Yeah, the story is Wasps take 90% of ACL, so Higgs gets out & sells all its shares to them & the council retains 10% of ACL.
We know nothing, they may be looking to extend the lease & buy adjoining land or something as part of the deal.
Many possibilities exist..

Which,presumably will allow them to pay off the "contested " loan - very convenient

oldfiver · Sep 26, 2014

rupert_bear said:
A provocative statement Wasps to buy 90% of ACL, but that isn't 90% of the Ricoh is it. ACL own 50% of the Ricoh shares and the Higgs the other 50%, so as I see it if that statement is correct Wasps would own 45% and the council owned 10% leaving the Higgs half up for grabs and with the councils 10% it could leave nobody in overall control, so if sisu or anyone else for that matter want part of the Ricoh action all they need to do is come to an agreement with Higgs or is that too simplistic

Council will retain a controlling vote

Monners · Sep 26, 2014

oldfiver said:
Which,presumably will allow them to pay off the "contested " loan - very convenient

"Standard business practice" Well. it's about time somebody used this one.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Sep 26, 2014

If the club can and are willing to match any deal wasps are proposing then the club should get first refusal. If they don't that is wrong.

Putting aside all the moral outrage of wasps playing in coventry I wouldn't be massively against a ground share with a rugby club if its the right deal for the club.

Ian1779 · Sep 26, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
Really? Do you have a link? You're not the first person to say something along these lines on here. But always when asked no evidence have ever been provided (to my knowledge) to back up this claim.

I believe it was said at a fans forum where he was pushed about the club owning the stadium. He said that 'technically' the club would not own the stadium, it would be in the hands of a holding company - a subsidiary of the club or something to that effect.

Not sure if there is a link anywhere to it.

Jack Griffin · Sep 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
I believe it was said at a fans forum where he was pushed about the club owning the stadium. He said that 'technically' the club would not own the stadium, it would be in the hands of a holding company - a subsidiary of the club or something to that effect.

Not sure if there is a link anywhere to it.

He was terribly vague about it.. and if you read my last comment you'll see it is all on youtube, go listen

italiahorse · Sep 26, 2014

torchomatic said:
Didn't Fisher say on our return that the only option was a new stadium as ACL had made it clear that there was no deal to be made?

Or sell up and piss off.
Personally I can see a Wasps deal forcing SISU out as they will have no where to take the club. May mean admin again but I'd take that to get rid of these idiots.

stupot07 · Sep 26, 2014

italiahorse said:
Or sell up and piss off.
Personally I can see a Wasps deal forcing SISU out as they will have no where to take the club. May mean admin again but I'd take that to get rid of these idiots.

You do realise that wasps owning 90% of the Ricoh and very likely never to sell it, would likely mean ccfc probably never ever reaching the PL?

Wasps will utilise all he revenue they can for themselves, before the consortium took over they were pissing money as fast as us making year on year losses. If it's the cash cow they think it is, they won't be sharing it with us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

covcity4life · Sep 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
You do realise that wasps owning 90% of the Ricoh and very likely never to sell it, would likely mean ccfc probably never ever reaching the PL?

Wasps will utilise all he revenue they can for themselves, before the consortium took over they were pissing money as fast as us making year on year losses. If it's the cash cow they think it is, they won't be sharing it with us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

some people care about council more than ccfc you have to remember

Otis · Sep 26, 2014

CCFC said:
If the club can and are willing to match any deal wasps are proposing then the club should get first refusal. If they don't that is wrong.

Putting aside all the moral outrage of wasps playing in coventry I wouldn't be massively against a ground share with a rugby club if its the right deal for the club.

Totally agree. If Wasps have made an offer, then Sisu should be allowed to match that offer and get first refusal. That's just common sense.

Nick · Sep 26, 2014

Otis said:
Totally agree. If Wasps have made an offer, then Sisu should be allowed to match that offer and get first refusal. That's just common sense.

Don't you find that like somebody bidding up an ebay item though?

skybluetony176 · Sep 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
I believe it was said at a fans forum where he was pushed about the club owning the stadium. He said that 'technically' the club would not own the stadium, it would be in the hands of a holding company - a subsidiary of the club or something to that effect.

Not sure if there is a link anywhere to it.

Well that's as good as cast iron then. You can believe that if you want to. I'll believe it when I see it in writing and signed off by JS.

Otis · Sep 26, 2014

Nick said:
Don't you find that like somebody bidding up an ebay item though?

Wasps are bidding for the Ricoh through ebay?

Jack Griffin · Sep 26, 2014

Otis said:
Wasps are bidding for the Ricoh through ebay?

If you order a batch of 10 stadiums through Ali-Baba you get a £25M discount.

TheSkyBlueSquirrel · Sep 26, 2014

I do wish everyone would just leave us alone to enjoy our football

Rob S · Sep 26, 2014

Well done Simon...got there in the end ;-)

http://www.eurofincapital.com/en

Nick · Sep 26, 2014

Otis said:
Wasps are bidding for the Ricoh through ebay?

No it means we don't know what the bid is but we should match it, the same as Michaels offer that we knew nothing about but should accept it.

Otis · Sep 26, 2014

Nick said:
No it means we don't know what the bid is but we should match it, the same as Michaels offer that we knew nothing about but should accept it.

Well obviously ACL should give Sisu at least the opportunity to bid.

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