We are paying the rent (1 Viewer)

Great, thanks v much.

Grendel said:

Are you spying on me?

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Grendel said:

Are you spying on me?

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Put some damn clothes on its hard to concentrate on the telly!!

Grendel said:

So in your opinion what is the argument all about now? In net terms it is clearly not the rent.

The food revenues offered are what, 20 - 25% of the total? Are the club do you think insisting on more and also other streams of revenue?

Do they want this backdating so the debt is wiped virtually?

It seems this is not now a rent dispute but a dispute about far more than that.

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All that follows is just an opinion

I agree it is not about the rent any more if indeed it ever really was. In some way it has to be about how SISU get their money back. Hedge funds just do not go into distressed companies with a view to turning around and long term ownership...... it just is not their function. It is hard to put a case together that sees CCFC becoming profitable any time soon, so how do they (sisu) get their way out of a very big hole.

Argument now is on the face of it about repaying the debt they have accrued, and the cost of the F&B's not the sales value. The first, well to a large degree they let roll up in an effort to distress ACL. But in order to do so they have had to distress CCFC first - people miss that. The plan only works if despite making seemingly the right moves CCFC remains without money - the debt is CCFC's not Sisu's. Nothing for ACL to go after if CCFC is distressed first. Now the debt is getting pretty ridiculous and the plan has hit a major bump because ACL have refinanced easing their cashflow which was the major problem not the ACL profitability. As for back dating well I think a lot of the delays have been SISUs fault why should ACL pay the cost of that?

F&B's belong to the EIC joint venture..... am sure there can be clever paperwork done that gives CCFC the turnover but Compass a share of the profits (ACL's share going to CCFC as indicated in various comments) The problem is what those sales cost. If the sales etc are all done by EIC in CCFC's name then they will want to know cost. The due diligence that SISU want is just another delay in all honesty, The sales could be done on an open book basis ie all sales recorded seperately and open to inspection and costs could be agreed and audited as they go on..... it really is not difficult

But now a new factor or two have emerged......

building a new ground .......... I have no doubt the threat was made but back tracking already ......... but it is another spanner in the works and source of delays

Lease breaks - not heard that before have we ........... if the intention is to stay and build something valuable together with ACL why need it? But it is something to discuss isnt it, something to not accept

ACL finance - crying foul thats not fair. Potential to challenge it and delay. In actual fact you tell me any business that wouldnt look firstly to its owners then secondly to other finance if it were cheaper than the banks. Especially when Yorkshire bank were putting pressure on for various reasons. You could argue that such pressure only happened after SISU distressed CCFC, stopped paying rent, and had seen the ACL books - but who knows there could be other reasons and it was just coincidence

Mediation - catchy idea but would it actually serve any purpose? neither side has to be bound by it

Smoke and mirros all the time Grendel............. there is spin from both sides .............. but I can not see any reason why it is ACL's interest not to get a deal done, they dont want to take the club down (if they had they would have ages ago). I think the rent is the first lever after that it is all about control........... SISU are not new to these situations, contrary to what some think they are clever driven even ruthless at times and they have a plan. Everything so far has bought them time and that is clearly important to their objectives

If this was just about what is best for the club then there a lot of people who can see what needs to be done in terms of all costs, access to income, security of site ownership, working partnerships, long term future etc - got to assume that SISU have seen that too but they have perhaps other objectives?

just my thoughts and opinions nothing more - could be wrong or right

torchomatic said:

Oh yeah, forgot. You WANT the winding up order to be served in the HOPE that the Club will survive. Betting man, are you?

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The only ones i see betting with the clubs existence is Sisu. Tactics which you have supported !!!!

Without SISU there wouldn't have been a Coventry City. It's fans like CJ who want to see the club fold, not SISU.

sky blue john said:

The only ones i see betting with the clubs existence is Sisu. Tactics which you have supported !!!!

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Don't bet on it.

Grendel said:

Surely even with your warped logic you see that?

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torchomatic said:

Without SISU there wouldn't have been a Coventry City. It's fans like CJ who want to see the club fold, not SISU.

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No I don't Torch - I just want SISU out, and if winding up orders are the way to do that, then so be it. I wouldn't support that if I thought there was a genuine possibility that we would fold though - we won't

Grendel said:

Sisu are the only reason the club is an existence. Surely even with your warped logic you see that?

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have always had a problem with those sorts of statements.

SISU pulled us out of the fire in 2007/08 yes grateful for that

ACL pulled the club out of the fire in 2004 when it paid £6m for catering rights to CCFC because it was about to go bust

The Charity pulled the club out of the fire when it bought shares in ACL in 2003

The council pulled the club out of the fire 2000 to 2005 when the club had sold its ground and nowhere to go

Hell you could say the likes of McG and Robinson pulled us out of the fire too (ok they helped cause it but still put their own money in and lost it)

Hell again you could even argue that by the council refinancing ACL and ACL offering £800k less rent that is helping save the team (yes i know it is a stretch for some )

Where do we stop being grateful ? The important thing is there being a team, in the eyes of the ordinary fan they dont give a monkeys about what goes on in the finances or behind the scenes............ they just want need and support their team. Seems to me a awful lot of different people/entities have stepped in to save the club over the years and decades............. very rarely though has it been managed properly as a football business

Grendel said:

Sisu are the only reason the club is an existence. Surely even with your warped logic you see that?

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OK back to form...I don't agree with this...subjective, as OSB rightly says in more detail.

CJparker said:

No I don't Torch - I just want SISU out, and if winding up orders are the way to do that, then so be it. I wouldn't support that if I thought there was a genuine possibility that we would fold though - we won't

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But you'd happy risk the club's future by trying to oust SISU which might not even work.

Best way to get rid of SISU? Someone to come in with a bid. Oh wait...

skyblueman said:

I know pal but we're just going round in bloody circles here - isn't it driving you up the wall?

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Yes -but "The whirlygig of time brings its revenges" Shakespeare:guitar2:

no one around to buy us :thinking about:no as it probably stands there isnt because no one would buy CCFC the way it is dressed up in the accounts etc. But then the basic facts are not so different to 2007 really are they and someone bought us

Only way that someone becomes interested is if the loans are written off (mostly or all) ............. shouldnt be hard as we are debt free :facepalm:

Fix the rent and get some of the income streams and it will be attractive to someone

The sticking point is how much SISU will want to settle their loans if they want to sell, but I have a feeling that JS feels there is life in their plans yet so no sale.

Got to ask why it is given there is no apparent way out why SISU continue to back the club why put more money after bad........... what is the sense of it? what is the reason or plan?

The basics have never changed .............. it is just we do not know the motives

torchomatic said:

Without SISU there wouldn't have been a Coventry City. It's fans like CJ who want to see the club fold, not SISU.

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I don't agree with that at all. There would always be a Coventry City. SISU have just delayed the inevitable pain.

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

But you'd happy risk the club's future by trying to oust SISU which might not even work.

Best way to get rid of SISU? Someone to come in with a bid. Oh wait...

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Course it's a risk - but how many FL clubs have folded in the last 20 years? Something will always happen to save the day. That uncertainty is a far better option that suffering under SISU for the indefinite future

oldskyblue58 said:

have always had a problem with those sorts of statements.

SISU pulled us out of the fire in 2007/08 yes grateful for that

ACL pulled the club out of the fire in 2004 when it paid £6m for catering rights to CCFC because it was about to go bust

The Charity pulled the club out of the fire when it bought shares in ACL in 2003

The council pulled the club out of the fire 2000 to 2005 when the club had sold its ground and nowhere to go

Hell you could say the likes of McG and Robinson pulled us out of the fire too (ok they helped cause it but still put their own money in and lost it)

Hell again you could even argue that by the council refinancing ACL and ACL offering £800k less rent that is helping save the team (yes i know it is a stretch for some )

Where do we stop being grateful ? The important thing is there being a team, in the eyes of the ordinary fan they dont give a monkeys about what goes on in the finances or behind the scenes............ they just want need and support their team. Seems to me a awful lot of different people/entities have stepped in to save the club over the years and decades............. very rarely though has it been managed properly as a football business

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and just for the record, if the Higgs Charity hadn't given the money to build the Alan Higgs Centre there would be no Academy.