We will never know until we get there! Until then speculation. If/when we are on the up some consortia/individual may come in for us. Wasps if they stay at Ricoh may do us a good deal. Sisu may build another stadia etc etc
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It's believed to be £2m - £2.5m however with the way the stadium costs are being funded it is said to be effectively rent free.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33780720
Wasps have £35m plus interest to pay back. We won't be getting a good deal from them and we won't get access to additional revenues we need.
Are you stating this as a fact or is it your guess Stu?
We keep hearing on here how much Wasps make out of us playing at the Ricoh. They get some of the pie money. Then there is the parking. And then there is everything that keeps getting repeated. From what some would like you to believe they make a lot of money out of us. To me and many others it is debatable because of costs incurred. But if it is right are you now saying that they would risk it all so they can offer only a massive rent increase?
It will be down to negotiations. As long as SISU negotiate for once that is.
If they were making nothing to very little out of us at present, it'd make a rent increase almost inevitable if they had any good business sense.
Are you stating this as a fact or is it your guess Stu?
We keep hearing on here how much Wasps make out of us playing at the Ricoh. They get some of the pie money. Then there is the parking. And then there is everything that keeps getting repeated. From what some would like you to believe they make a lot of money out of us. To me and many others it is debatable because of costs incurred. But if it is right are you now saying that they would risk it all so they can offer only a massive rent increase?
It will be down to negotiations. As long as SISU negotiate for once that is.
Are you stating this as a fact or is it your guess Stu?
We keep hearing on here how much Wasps make out of us playing at the Ricoh. They get some of the pie money. Then there is the parking. And then there is everything that keeps getting repeated. From what some would like you to believe they make a lot of money out of us. To me and many others it is debatable because of costs incurred. But if it is right are you now saying that they would risk it all so they can offer only a massive rent increase?
It will be down to negotiations. As long as SISU negotiate for once that is.
To an extent but, to take an extreme case, if ACL say £5m a year or we're not interested what do SISU do? Would the FL let them move again back to Sixfields?
it is an educated guess. As NW says, if they are making very little from us at present, then with their repayment commitments it is pretty much a certainty rent will go up, and it is unlikely we will squeeze anymore revenue from them. What have we got as a bargaining chip? threaten to move out? Wasps are in the box seat here, and they have shown they are just as ruthless as sisu when it comes to business. tbh, i'm not sure why you're even trying to pick fault with what i said, seems to be the most logical outcome.
They have at least that much to pay back. That is just what they owe on the bond issue.
The Ricoh should be a profitable venue. Under the ownership of Higgs and CCC it was poorly run. I would speculate having the football club covering a large chunk of ACL's annual expenditure contributed to this. When we moved out there was a shake up and some new people came in. They have turned things around fairly well, the events running now that Wasps have taken credit for are actually a result of the work done by that team before Wasps came in. From what I'm told by my contact in ACL things have taken a step back since the Wasps takeover. They have brought some of their own people in and the phrase used to describe it to me was 'old boys network' rather than those right for the job. Apparently morale has taken a bit of a hit but of course nobody knows where things will go from here.
To an extent but, to take an extreme case, if ACL say £5m a year or we're not interested what do SISU do? Would the FL let them move again back to Sixfields?
I agree with all of this. What I don't agree with is people that say that Wasps make a lot of money that we should be making, but when it comes to the rent they hardly make anything so it means nothing to put the rent up a very large amount as they have nothing to lose. You either think that they make a lot out of us so the rent is a bonus and it isn't worth the risk or it will all be about the rent. They are not in a position to gamble.
Or they could be after naming rights where us being there is worth more than any rent they know that they would get from us. And this is why I say that we know hardly anything.
It's believed to be £2m - £2.5m however with the way the stadium costs are being funded it is said to be effectively rent free.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33780720
We all know that the FL make up the rules as they go along. They know that SISU love litigation. So would they be prepared to force us into a rental agreement which is considered to be too much?
I agree with all of this. What I don't agree with is people that say that Wasps make a lot of money that we should be making, but when it comes to the rent they hardly make anything so it means nothing to put the rent up a very large amount as they have nothing to lose. You either think that they make a lot out of us so the rent is a bonus and it isn't worth the risk or it will all be about the rent. They are not in a position to gamble.
Or they could be after naming rights where us being there is worth more than any rent they know that they would get from us. And this is why I say that we know hardly anything.
I would imagine the FL would have a difficult job not to given that they've very publicly declared not only from our move to Northampton but also from our move back to the Ricoh we are in temporary accommodation until SISU build our own ground.
They can't force a rental agreement - that would be illegal.
of course they are in a position to gamble, whats the worst that will happen? We move out go back to sixfields our crowds drop back to 2k, the likely consequence would be increase to the wasps gate as the people of coventry blame sisu for moving us out again and look for something else to spend their hard earned on, on a saturday afternoon.
The first paragraph genuinely makes no sense whatsoever.
If anything that means there's less chance of them allowing it to happen. We're now in year 3 of what SISU told the FL would be a 3-5 year project to build a new ground. As far as I can tell there's little indication that there has been any significant progress since the day we packed up and moved to Northampton.
Indeed but if the FL say we won't sanction Coventry City playing outside of Coventry would that get around the legalities? FL could claim they weren't forcing any particular deal.
I agree with all of this. What I don't agree with is people that say that Wasps make a lot of money that we should be making, but when it comes to the rent they hardly make anything so it means nothing to put the rent up a very large amount as they have nothing to lose. You either think that they make a lot out of us so the rent is a bonus and it isn't worth the risk or it will all be about the rent. They are not in a position to gamble.
There's more than one way to look at this.
You can look at it from a CCFC point of view. Only one other club has been in the position we are in, Stockport County, and it led to freefall for them. Where most other clubs have the ability to use their grounds 365 days a year and generate turnover we don't.
From an ACL viewpoint they should be more profitable than they are and seem to, since our move to Northampton, have improved so future accounts may well show a greater profit.
From a Wasps point of view they will want to maximise the revenue they receive from ACL. We have already seen restricted use of corporate facilities for our games as Wasps can make more money hiring those facilities out to others. What if they decide us being at the Ricoh is impeding them getting other events in? What if the FL enforce primacy rules, as they should, and ACL can't say we can't play when the games festival is on? What makes them more money, would they kick us out or the gamers? Wasps now have £35m to pay back, that means there needs to be a significant increase in the profitability of ACL, one option for them is to charge us more knowing we have very limited alternatives.
So 5 million over 3 years to get into the premier league, like I say one of the better run clubs.
Contracts were signed for the use of the stadium when we were not there and Tim was saying we would never go back renting.
ACL will be more profitable with just Wasps there to it not being used for sport. We are just a bonus on top.
They have 50m to pay back in 7 years and not 35m.
so what are you trying to say? Wasp will keep up there on a peppercorn rent and allow us to keep getting 50% of the 12% they make on F&B's? which still isnt enough for us in the championship anyway??
ACL will be more profitable with just Wasps there to it not being used for sport. We are just a bonus on top.
They have 50m to pay back in 7 years and not 35m.
to be fair their revenue has been a lot higher than ours, in the last 2 sets of accounts (£18m and £16m, against our £10.8m last time we were there)
I am not saying anything
8 million pounds in commercial revenue apparently, what did we generate for commercial income during our relegation season?
About £7.25m I think. I think it relates to FL payments, TV revenues, etc. not necessary commercial activity the club undertook.
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I not convinced ACL are profitable. They have struggled just about every year to be cash-flow positive even if they have posted overall profit. Especially from 2012 when we stopped paying rent. Note how they had to borrow more from the council that they paid back to Yorkshire Bank. Note how they went after Robinson and McGinnity for £300K when the club dragged out repaying the £400k FL ruled Otium should pay to allow the transfer of the Golden Share.
Since Wasp took over the debt and interest payments has increased.
We are back but only pay a peppercorn rent.
In any case, someone asked what bargaining chip the club has when negotiations on the rent starts. Well, how about the JR 2.0? The appeal courts finding that the original ruling was based on wrong premisses suddenly makes the JR a potent factor.
Then there's the existing rent contract. There may well be a clause that define just how much the rent can increase yearly. And there may be an exit clause that requires certain events to trigger so even if the length is 2+2 years it may require special circumstances to end the contract. We don't know.
I not convinced ACL are profitable. They have struggled just about every year to be cash-flow positive even if they have posted overall profit. Especially from 2012 when we stopped paying rent. Note how they had to borrow more from the council that they paid back to Yorkshire Bank. Note how they went after Robinson and McGinnity for £300K when the club dragged out repaying the £400k FL ruled Otium should pay to allow the transfer of the Golden Share.
Since Wasp took over the debt and interest payments has increased.
We are back but only pay a peppercorn rent.
In any case, someone asked what bargaining chip the club has when negotiations on the rent starts. Well, how about the JR 2.0? The appeal courts finding that the original ruling was based on wrong premisses suddenly makes the JR a potent factor.
Then there's the existing rent contract. There may well be a clause that define just how much the rent can increase yearly. And there may be an exit clause that requires certain events to trigger so even if the length is 2+2 years it may require special circumstances to end the contract. We don't know.
In the Watford set of accounts commercial relates to sponsorship income, merchandising, conference and banqueting and other sundry income.
There breakdown of revenue was
Match day 4 million
Media 5 million (TV money, football league funding, cup competitions)
Commercial 8 million
Commercial revenues increased by about 4.5 million when the Italian family took over Watford.
http://www.watfordfc.com/documents/2014-report-and-financial-statements286-2102314.pdf
http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/watfordfc/watfordfcnews/10816471._/
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