We'll Come Back To The Ricoh... (1 Viewer)

Houdi · Sep 26, 2013

Bassman said:
Poor article, telling us little more about Joy and her gang than we knew already.

One thing Les should have asked was a follow up to the statement that it was never the intent to distress ACL.

Why are they so hell bent on the judicial review then?

Agree doesn't really tell us that much that we didn't all already know. Just a rehash of past events from SISU's viewpoint. No real meat on the bones. No new developments about the new stadium, or even a timescale when fans can expect 'concrete' news. Just a suitably vague promise about future plans.
It just seems a cynical PR campaign to try and convince fans that SISU aren't going away and are here for the long term, so fans better put pressure on ACL/Council if they want us back at the Ricoh, which of course will only happen on SISU's terms.
She claimed that SISU have so far invested circa £60 million, and that they intend to invest further millions in a new ground plus continuing to subsidising future losses at Sixfields. So in 3 to 5 years their investments will be fast approaching £100 million. Amazingly she then adds that she expects a return on that investment.:facepalm: Not quite sure who she expects to pay over £100 million for a 3rd division football club, playing outside its own City. How do these figures even begin to stack up? The interview doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.

torchomatic · Sep 26, 2013

What on earth are they putting in the water in Coventry then?!

James Smith said:
just seems to confirm that Tim is drinking the company Kool Aid.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 26, 2013

That she is happy to go to investors and ask them to prop up losses arising directly from her own hubris says all we need to know about how she operates. Indeed if a stadium is eventually built, the losses incurred from playing in front of a man and his dog and its construction mean she will need to sell the club for potentially £90m+ to get a return on investment.

The even bigger demonstration of this of course is that we don't need the freehold to profit from the ground. She wants it so that the council are expunged from having even a nominal involvement, such is how personal she sees it. She is not just cutting her nose off but gouging her eyes to spite her face.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 26, 2013

As a little aside, Lucas openly writes to meet Sepalla in person but never gets a response, yet a UKIP MEP, only happy to help besmirch a Labour council, gets a meeting on the sly.

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 26, 2013

Astute said:
So what do we know more then after this interview? Worthwhile would have been learning more than we already knew. Same old shit is nothing new. But you seem to like coming out with the same old shit. So you will be happy. Most of us wanted to learn more. Who else will she meet that won't help our cause or let us find out the truth on what is going on? Who else can help her to spin what is going on and what will happen in the future? And at least you have learned how to spell 'embarrassingly'

I will dissect your post for you;

So what do we know more then after this interview? - Not a lot, however what is to say there is any more to learn at this moment, what were you honestly expecting? "We want to crush ACL and get the Ricoh on the cheap" Get real.

Worthwhile would have been learning more than we already knew - I don't agree, it's worthwhile that Joy has put her point across, despite what you might think in the past two years since Joy's involvement she has only communicated once with the fans, but that was an article on the clubs website and not in front of the fans. At least now we have on side of the story.

Same old shit is nothing new. But you seem to like coming out with the same old shit. So you will be happy. - Yup I am absolutely thrilled, so enthralled by it all I might party.

Who else will she meet that won't help our cause or let us find out the truth on what is going on? Who else would you like Joy to meet? Oh I assume you want to put Joy in a room in another fans forum type scenario.. Yeah I doubt that will happen and Joy want talk to the Sky Blue Trust.

Who else can help her to spin what is going on and what will happen in the future? - What's to say that anything Joy has said in today's article is spin?

And at least you have learned how to spell 'embarrassingly' - I knew before however I just forgot to add an additional 'r' but I am flattered (I think) that you go over my post's with a fine tooth comb.

sky blue john · Sep 26, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Alright then girl I will.

Okay I will show you the line I brought up once more 'The “devout Christian” said she had received some angry hate mail, including emails containing words such as “die” and “bitch”.' so after reading that the keys words are 'received', 'die' and 'hate', now if you'd like to make up something an E-Mail that involves all words but doesn't sound like a death threat be my guest and try, however after the way some people on here slate, moan, name call, abuse and misconcieve then it really wouldn't surprise me if there really was a death threat.

I have highlighted the part of your post which sums you and many others, a few weeks ago you were all slating Joy Seppala for not being transparent and not talking to anyone about our predicament, yet within three days Joy talks to a member of the SCG and a local journalist and it's not 'worthwile' and we don't know 'more than we did before'.

Contradiction go and look it up in a dictionary then look in the mirror.

Quite embarrassing really..

Just to back up your statement !!!!
How many death threats have you seen posted on sky blues talk ????

James Smith · Sep 26, 2013

Okay so I just re-read the statement the club put out on the 5th of August this year where it was stated

Club Statement said:
When Joy Seppala met with representatives of ACL on July 25, she certainly did not demand full ownership without negotiation. She made the point that every football club needs access to matchday revenues and should own its stadium - especially under the Financial Fair Play rules.

http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/club-statement-050813-971036.aspx

Which sort of conflicts with the comments published today. :facepalm:

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 26, 2013

sky blue john said:
Just to back up your statement !!!!
How many death threats have you seen posted on sky blues talk ????

I never said I had seen any on this forum...

hill83 · Sep 26, 2013

sky blue john said:
Just to back up your statement !!!!
How many death threats have you seen posted on sky blues talk ????

He didn't say there was death threats on here. Can you read?

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 26, 2013

hill83 said:
He didn't say there was death threats on here. Can you read?

Only what he wants to read

Sky Blue Sheepy · Sep 26, 2013

I'm not a SISU fan by any stretch of the imagination but she argues her side well. Was surprised how more open it seems and a bit less smoke and mirrors than expected. Not to say there weren't any!

Senior Vick from Alicante · Sep 26, 2013

What we have here my friends is a Mexican stand off. The first one to blink looses but we have 2 sets of people that aint gonna blink. The trouble we are in is not just because of Sisu and the Council, its the fact that football has always been run by local business men with small pockets and big dreams, with the hope of some short lived moment of fame in the spot light. Soon as hard headed business people get involved its a game changer, they run things in factual numbers way (when they can be arsed to supply accounts) and don't think about dreams they look at statistics. All sides spin things, the council will when they are allowed to speak again after the 28th of November, and Fisher and JS will. The truth will never out unfortunately, its the same as history, Its made up of what the victor tells you not the vanquished. It leaves the club in one situation only if the council wont sell, and it doesn't have too, they are loosing the fan base and more importantly and generation of supporters that will never come back to its colours. If they come back to the area in the next five years the 8500 fans not going to Sixfields will have other pursuits on a Saturday afternoon. Not once in this whole process have fans wishes been taken into account, both sides pretend to listen but just pay us lip service. In the end we don't count our opinion is just that, an opinion they don't have to act on whats best for us they both have their own trains and can do what they want with them, the emotional bond we have means nothing to business men and legal teams fighting over business principles. Who knows what is coming next for us but the council should hang their heads in shame if they are willing to loose the football club from this City, they were voted in to their seats by us ( not that any of us had a say on Ann Lucas being made leader), so much for us being the city of reconciliation. Sisu should also recognise what they can gain from being at the Ricoh and helping to regenerate that area of Coventry, they can still make a profit and build a project in conjunction with the council that will strengthen their own portfolio and encourage further investment in their funds. You cant have a conversation with a mirror and expect a reply, you have to sit in a room together and thrash the deal out, if their are things that you cant do because by law you are not allowed to then you must tell the person you are negotiating with, then if your open through the process you can reach an ending suitable to all party's. Until both sides sit down and stop playing he said she said and talk about how to reunite the club and the stadium in a way that benefits the 2 halves we will not be seeing CCFC in Coventry.

njdlawyer · Sep 26, 2013

One of the few times, before this interview, that JS had her head above the parapet was in the 2005/6 High Court case that has been referred to before on this site

Quite possibly the only truly independent analysis of the events of the last 12 months or so came from another High Court judge in the JR

In the former JS was described variously as "...the least satisfactory witness [in the case]..." with a "...distorted recollection...", "...prone to exaggerate..." and someone who "...introduced a spin to suit [her] case..."

In the latter the tribunal's opinion was that SISU were trying to distress ACL

So it's against that background and in that context that, in my view, what might otherwise seem to be an eminently reasonable position ought to be considered and judged

Aside from treating what is said with a very large pinch of salt and no small degree of mistrust what concerns me about this article is:-

a) That it's all now (admittedly) personal - "...irrational to return...where I have any exposure to CCC..." and "...I know I cannot work with them...". And yes I know that people will disagree but it seems to me that SISU / JS / TF are the ones that have made it thus with their aggressive business tactics - something else that JS is famed for according to financial journalists

b) Rotherham and Shrewsbury as examples. Yes we are a third tier team who have not seriously threatened to be any better for ten years or more but we are a big one club city with no major sporting competition. Surely Southampton, Swansea or Hull should be what we aspire to. In the case of the first named they, of course, narrowly avoided SISU ownership and have a stadium which to all intents and purposes is identical to the Ricoh

c) As has been said by others, whatever form or size the new stadium takes it will either saddle what will inevitably be a smaller club with a large debt or will be owned by a third party (SISU / Otium) with the football club as tenants which is something apparently undesirable and unsustainable

d) If FFP is such a concern how the hell can playing in front of crowds of 1500 - 2300 make the situation anything but massively worse - and as others have pointed out JS either does not understand or deliberately "spins" FFP

I, personally have difficulties accepting at face value anything said by SISU or their officers - particularly since I attended and heard TF at a forum spout what has transpired to be 90% BS. I don't think I am alone in that so I want to see ACL / CCC / AHT respond to this in kind and in detail. Failure to do so will hand a massive PR victory to SISU not to mention being an implied acceptance of the facts

By the way would people please stop with the pathetic and infantile playground spats on this site...

skybluelee · Sep 26, 2013

senior vick from alicante said:
what we have here my friends is a mexican stand off. The first one to blink looses but we have 2 sets of people that aint gonna blink. The trouble we are in is not just because of sisu and the council, its the fact that football has always been run by local business men with small pockets and big dreams, with the hope of some short lived moment of fame in the spot light. Soon as hard headed business people get involved its a game changer, they run things in factual numbers way (when they can be arsed to supply accounts) and don't think about dreams they look at statistics. All sides spin things, the council will when they are allowed to speak again after the 28th of november, and fisher and js will. The truth will never out unfortunately, its the same as history, its made up of what the victor tells you not the vanquished. It leaves the club in one situation only if the council wont sell, and it doesn't have too, they are loosing the fan base and more importantly and generation of supporters that will never come back to its colours. If they come back to the area in the next five years the 8500 fans not going to sixfields will have other pursuits on a saturday afternoon. Not once in this whole process have fans wishes been taken into account, both sides pretend to listen but just pay us lip service. In the end we don't count our opinion is just that, an opinion they don't have to act on whats best for us they both have their own trains and can do what they want with them, the emotional bond we have means nothing to business men and legal teams fighting over business principles. Who knows what is coming next for us but the council should hang their heads in shame if they are willing to loose the football club from this city, they were voted in to their seats by us ( not that any of us had a say on ann lucas being made leader), so much for us being the city of reconciliation. Sisu should also recognise what they can gain from being at the ricoh and helping to regenerate that area of coventry, they can still make a profit and build a project in conjunction with the council that will strengthen their own portfolio and encourage further investment in their funds. You cant have a conversation with a mirror and expect a reply, you have to sit in a room together and thrash the deal out, if their are things that you cant do because by law you are not allowed to then you must tell the person you are negotiating with, then if your open through the process you can reach an ending suitable to all party's. Until both sides sit down and stop playing he said she said and talk about how to reunite the club and the stadium in a way that benefits the 2 halves we will not be seeing ccfc in coventry.

paragraphs!

James Smith · Sep 26, 2013

torchomatic said:
What on earth are they putting in the water in Coventry then?!

Sorry that's an American phrase, it did win an award for being annoying http://www.forbes.com/special-report/2012/annoying-business-jargons-12.html (and it does have a somewhat nasty origin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown#Deaths_in_Jonestown which was not my intention to convey).

Astute · Sep 26, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
I will dissect your post for you;

So what do we know more then after this interview? - Not a lot, however what is to say there is any more to learn at this moment, what were you honestly expecting? "We want to crush ACL and get the Ricoh on the cheap" Get real.

Worthwhile would have been learning more than we already knew - I don't agree, it's worthwhile that Joy has put her point across, despite what you might think in the past two years since Joy's involvement she has only communicated once with the fans, but that was an article on the clubs website and not in front of the fans. At least now we have on side of the story.

Same old shit is nothing new. But you seem to like coming out with the same old shit. So you will be happy. - Yup I am absolutely thrilled, so enthralled by it all I might party.

Who else will she meet that won't help our cause or let us find out the truth on what is going on? Who else would you like Joy to meet? Oh I assume you want to put Joy in a room in another fans forum type scenario.. Yeah I doubt that will happen and Joy want talk to the Sky Blue Trust.

Who else can help her to spin what is going on and what will happen in the future? - What's to say that anything Joy has said in today's article is spin?

And at least you have learned how to spell 'embarrassingly' - I knew before however I just forgot to add an additional 'r' but I am flattered (I think) that you go over my post's with a fine tooth comb.

Just want Joy to meet someone that could bring the two sides together. But you seem happy with her to meet someone that won't ask the questions needed or wouldn't admit to getting no answers if they were asked.

BTW old news and spin was what we got, not just spin.

CCFCChadders · Sep 26, 2013

So to sum up unless SISU have 100% ownership of the Ricoh a new stadium will be built according to the interview.

Has she failed to overlook the fact there are 1500 fans going to Sixfield.

Why would anyone go to another stadium that is not within Coventry.

Is this not the reason why there are only 1500 fans at Sixfields? By the time a new stadium is built out of coventry there will be no one left to fill it..

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 26, 2013

Astute said:
Just want Joy to meet someone that could bring the two sides together. But you seem happy with her to meet someone that won't ask the questions needed or wouldn't admit to getting no answers if they were asked.

BTW old news and spin was what we got, not just spin.

The thing is you are hoping for something that can't happen, yes Joy and Anne are willing to meet one another however the council won't sell the Arena to SISU, which is clearly the one thing Joy wants. I am happy that finally Joy Seppala has opnely had a conversation with two people and that Joy hasn't remained annoymous, Joy has put her side across and really at the moment that's all we can ask, lets not jump straight into and hope for the world turn, step by step.

We got what we got, some will never be happy obviously.

slyblue57 · Sep 26, 2013

Suprised no ones commented on this part of the interview
" Sisu and its related firm Otium, which now runs the club, says a fair price for the Ricoh and the potential development land around it could be agreed by taking the average of each sides’ surveyors’ valuations, based on potential income."
Well sounds a reasonable offer to me. Both sides will have figure and a basis to negotiate . Maybe just maybe us fans will get to see the figure produced by both sides. I ll bet the Council do nt take up the offer though.
CCC / ACL/ SISU out
PUSB KCIC

Moff · Sep 26, 2013

CCFCChadders said:
Why would anyone go to another stadium that is not within Coventry.

Because its closer?

I dont remember mass protests in the mid 90's when it was proposed we would build a new stadium near the Walsgrave triangle (M6/M69) on land in Warwickshire. Still we were being run by a far more capable board then....I think Richardson was at the helm. :facepalm:

Covstu · Sep 26, 2013

Certainly makes interesting reading but i suppose you can interpret this is many diffferent ways. Firstly no shock that they want 100% ownership, something that i have always said they needed and i totally back this. The club needs to have its own revenue streams without having to go cap in hand to ACL when they want to change something.

Secondly, and probably the most disturbing was the factor of building a new stadium. All those doubters that this wouldnt happen, i think reading this and there is no deal to be done on the Ricoh then this will certainly happen in my opinion. The biggest question is where, the comments about 'any city would love a football club' bit was worrying as clearly this is not going to be Coventry. Rugby maybe but not Coventry, this could end the relationship with 80% of the fans (or could renew it depending on how far it is out).

This interview cements alot of what the 'SISU apologists' or 'scabs' or whatever they are called have been saying for sometime. SISU are not going anywhere and it is simply down to ACL/Council to see if they can cut a deal to sell the Ricoh but that is a major decision!

oldskyblue58 · Sep 26, 2013

slyblue57 said:
Suprised no ones commented on this part of the interview
" Sisu and its related firm Otium, which now runs the club, says a fair price for the Ricoh and the potential development land around it could be agreed by taking the average of each sides’ surveyors’ valuations, based on potential income."
Well sounds a reasonable offer to me. Both sides will have figure and a basis to negotiate . Maybe just maybe us fans will get to see the figure produced by both sides. I ll bet the Council do nt take up the offer though.
CCC / ACL/ SISU out
PUSB KCIC

If you take it as said to value it on potential income then that values the freehold at nil. The rights to income are all in the ACL Group. ACL do not pay any rent to the council they paid a one off premium so there is no potential income on the freehold as it stands

Covstu · Sep 26, 2013

oldskyblue58 said:
If you take it as said to value it on potential income then that values the freehold at nil. The rights to income are all in the ACL Group. ACL do not pay any rent to the council they paid a one off premium so there is no potential income on the freehold as it stands

But there certainly is in ACL which is the point she is making i guess. She would have brought in AEG to run that element of it.

Baginton · Sep 26, 2013

Great interview and great replies.

What is wrong with the club wanting to own its own stadium to be as viable and sustainable as possible, to compete and grow??

SISU aint going nowhere, until they turn this bad company around and sell it for a profit, the more you fight it, the longer it will take !

We should be demanding the council sell the ground 100%, to end this nightmare we are all going through

PUSB KCIC

Get back to the Ricoh, where we belong, as owners :claping hands:

thaiskyblue · Sep 26, 2013

Baginton said:
Great interview and great replies.

What is wrong with the club wanting to own its own stadium to be as viable and sustainable as possible, to compete and grow??

SISU aint going nowhere, until they turn this bad company around and sell it for a profit, the more you fight it, the longer it will take !

We should be demanding the council sell the ground 100%, to end this nightmare we are all going through

PUSB KCIC

Get back to the Ricoh, where we belong, as owners :claping hands:

sisu spin , sucked in !

Covstu · Sep 26, 2013

But it makes sense regardless if you think it is 'spin' surely??

CCFCChadders · Sep 26, 2013

True but I still can't see a new ground being a success, being out of Coventry is just one of the reasons, by the time the stadium is built alot of fans of todays generation will have turned there back on CCFC.

For me it spells a permanent downgrade for the club..

bezzer · Sep 26, 2013

thaiskyblue said:
..they are being told by their investors to get this sorted. We need these out of our club as soon as possible.

thaiskyblue spin?? Looking forward to your investor information. You could always let Les 'SISU apologist' Reid have it

chiefdave · Sep 26, 2013

Not a lot of new information is there. Confirmation that they are only interested in ownership, despite Labovitch's denials of this, seems about the only new thing. As has been discussed on here previously from the clubs perspective there is no business case to need 100% ownership of the freehold and if she believes this to be the case you have to doubt her business knowledge.

The thing about rates offsetting rent again suggests she doesn't understand basic business. If they were owed money by the council get it off them, it's not a reason to stop paying a separate company.

Am I missing something, she insists there's been no transfer of assets yet the leaked documents clearly showed the players in Ltd. Is she just referring the incorrect registrations at the FL rather than where the players were contracted to and paid from?

Couple of quotes really stood out for me. We've been told by Fisher that she's hands on day to day yet she says "I don’t have the desire to run a football club, I don’t know anything about football", how does that work? Who in their right mind would think this is a good arrangement.

Add to that "The business side is operationally in a good place. Tim Fisher’s done a good job", how bad do things have to get before she thinks he's doing a bad job? We've at our lowest level in most peoples living memory, the lowest crowds in history, the vast majority of the sponsors have walked away, no shop, no proper ticketing facilities, none of that points to a job well done to me.

I still can't see how building a new stadium is going to be better for the club financially than going back to the Ricoh, even in the long term it doesn't add up to me. Key question of who will own the new stadium and illustration of how we will be better off were sadly missing from the article.

CCFCChadders · Sep 26, 2013

Moff said:
Because its closer?

I dont remember mass protests in the mid 90's when it was proposed we would build a new stadium near the Walsgrave triangle (M6/M69) on land in Warwickshire. Still we were being run by a far more capable board then....I think Richardson was at the helm. :facepalm:

CCFCChadders · Sep 26, 2013

True but I still can't see a new ground being a success, being out of Coventry is just one of the reasons, by the time the stadium is built alot of fans of todays generation will have turned there back on CCFC.

For me it spells a permanent downgrade for the club..

chiefdave · Sep 26, 2013

Baginton said:
What is wrong with the club wanting to own its own stadium to be as viable and sustainable as possible, to compete and grow??

Nothing wrong with that at all but as far as I can see the figures don't add up and if anything building a new stadium as opposed to renting the Ricoh will leave us worse off. How long is it going to be before we have a net gain over being at the Ricoh, 50 years, 100 years? It's certainly going to be a long time.

torchomatic · Sep 26, 2013

Well, at the moment they're not representing Coventry or even Warwickshire, but Northamptonshire. Plenty of people went to Port Vale on Saturday still, didn't they? As you say, the clue is in the name.

valiant15 said:
Looks like weve possibly played our last game in the city of Coventry then. Im not interested in supporting a Warwickshire based team. The clue is in the name. Infact if they do play outside of the city imo they shouldn't really use the name 'Coventry City'. They won't be representing Coventry and won't be playing in a city.

Bassman · Sep 26, 2013

Seeing a lot of knee jerk responses along the lines of "the council should just give the club the stadium"

Just as a reminder, the link below shows why they cannot do this, even if they wanted to. It is also why when the council stepped in to fund the project, it had to be on a standard commercial basis. The council cannot be seen to give the club any preferential treatment (I suspect even the reduced rent agreement could have had repercussions):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22037966

It's also why SISU needs the arena to go bust, rather than negotiate a deal. There is no way they'll pay a fair commercial fee, and no way the council could allow it to be sold for less than its real value.

All of which may help to explain a) why they're pinning so much on the judicial review, and b) why they're not (apparently) engaged with any other local authorities regarding planning permission for a new stadium.

Ripbuster · Sep 26, 2013

So there we have it!

If you want to be successful you buy a failing business thats losing money hand over fist for years,throw money at it and continue losing money,you then move it away so 90% of your loyal customers no longer buy your product. You then become a Christian and family orientated person,take a few death threats ta'boot la la la la laaaa

and all is rosy

Brentford it is then,see you ALL there.

We'll Come Back To The Ricoh... (1 Viewer)

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