We're really a mid-table side (1 Viewer)

Ask yourself how many of our players would get into a mid table side
Murphy juke clingan crainie with cameron & keogh as possibles and wood as an outside bet. We have somr great youth prospects and cody may turn into a good championship player but they are not there yet.

we are a bottom 6 squad

the league table doesnt lie....

Southampton are currently the best team in the division, and Doncater is the worst I have seen this season, and they are bottom.

That makes us the 3rd worst team, and soon to be 2nd when Bristol City pick up with their new boss.

If he believes it we are in trouble

I agree with Thorn to a certain extent.
The fact is we have not been 'mauled to death' by anyone we have played yet. This indicates we are just short of a couple of cogs in the wheel and there's plenty of time to go. Whether SISU will get out the cheque book to correct that problem may be answered when we have played the next 4 games.....

SISU care not one jot where we are in the table or what goes on on the pitch - the priorities are cut costs then cut some more. The thing that is getting Tangoman excited is 5 acres of derelict land behind the Tesco stand not finding us a decent attacking midfielder. Thorn has what he has and has to make do with that - interesting to see how many fit defenders we have on Saturday.

I love it ashbyjan when you come on here with your 'statements'. Unless you have some inside information then you should keep it to a considered opinion not a statement of fact.

If SISU did not care where we were in the table then we may as well be run by three blind mice. Of course they care, it affects the whole business model.
If you can enlighten me on why 'tango man' would be excited by 5 acres of derelict land then I'd love to here it or even how you pretend to know that? I guess as you call him 'tango man' then he is not on your 'A' list friends and you don't have the inside scoop?

I'd take 3 Blind Mice over SISU any day! At least they understand football and would communicate with the fans a bit better. This logic is based on the de facto situation that ANYTHING or ANYONE would be better in those regards than our current "custodians"! I'd take The Honey Monster assisted by my gran and a brick over Ken, Len and Onye!

I can understand defending the team-but not the owners, when they are directly responsible for the squad we are left with. Most of what AT says is maybe manager-speak to motivate players. Anyone who has been a manager of an organisation, team, firm or whatever understands; if you don't show belief and confidence in your team, they will lack confidence and falter. Morale will drop if the leader seems to lack faith in the resources available. It'd be like a vicar delivering a sermon if he's an atheist; hypocritical and probably counter-productive in that his lack of inspiration would be most transparent.

I think Thorn is very much a positive person who likes to smile and enjoy his work. He wants everyone else to have a smile on their face, self-belief and confidence in their own ability to perform. He understands that you need stick as well as carrot but is generally a very enthusiastic man. A lot of this comes from being unpretentious, partly from his upbringing, and much of it due to his long career as part of the legendary Crazy Gang; they were famous for their self-belief and ability to achieve results way beyond their resources. I think we've already done this to some extent, and if we stay up we'll certainly have done it through team-spirit rather than resources.

What alternative approach is really available to Thorn, anyway? If I got to work I'm not sure how I'd respond if I was told by my boss:

"Well, we're really going to struggle to reach our targets today..there's just not enough staff.. Dave's called in sick, Jim has taken another job offer at a bigger and better organisation, Denise is on holiday...and you're all completely crap compared to them. I begged Head Office for money to recruit, but they say times are tough and you've all got to make up for it by working harder. Basically, we're fucked. OK, get out there and do your best..."

That said, I did once host a team meeting when weeks from administration when I did start with the "basically, we're fucked" line; under those circumstances, everyone was so insecure that an honest approach that dissed the owners that had crippled us created a bit of a siege mentality that helped keep us all going until the inevitable end. But I can't help but feel a similar approach by Thorn would just result in a plethora of red cards and libellous post-match interviews...so I'm glad he's saying what he is!

Paxman II said:

I agree with Thorn to a certain extent.
The fact is we have not been 'mauled to death' by anyone we have played yet. This indicates we are just short of a couple of cogs in the wheel and there's plenty of time to go. Whether SISU will get out the cheque book to correct that problem may be answered when we have played the next 4 games.....

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I must having watching a differnt game at Portman Rd then..I saw men against boys and I certainly feel that we were "mauled" that day !

I think we prob would be about midtable if we got the points we should have from games Like palace, Blackpool,Reading & Burnley where I feel we should have got more points than we did against them.

Sorry but could have, should have, would have are not worth anything it is a complete waste of time looking back that way and justifying us as a better team than we are.

The fact is we didnt get those points and we cannot go back and change it. We are in the bottom 3 because overall we have failed to achieve better than that. You can seek to blame SISU, the players, the Board, AT etc in one way or another (some much more than others) but bottom line is all have contributed to where we are. After 14 games the table tends to tell its own story and we are in the bottom 3. Come next Saturday evening we could be a win away (3 or 4 points) from getting out of the bottom three too

We are a midtable team AT ? Really ? Honestly believe if he thinks that he needs to step back and take a long hard look at the team and what he is doing

The results show something different. The style of play is easier on the eye but to date it hasnt achieved anything like the positive effect some would have us see. We play some nice keep ball but it is generally in our half and lacks a consistent threat - it doesnt hurt other teams consistently, doesnt create that many chances. Results count and we have won 2 in 19, you would expect as a midtable team to have won 4or 5 games and drawn a similar amount. We are a bottom 5 or 6 team - midtable obscurity is a long way off right now !.

Teams look at us and see a team that they can beat. Top or bottom, teams have a belief they can get points off us

I am scratching my head as to why he made that statement because other than brief periods in some matches we have looked exactly what the table says we are. In trouble!

1 would take mid table side!!! but unfortunatly we are not a mid table side we are bottom 3 side staring relegation in the face unless something changes and changes soon :thinking about::thinking about:

ccfcway said:

the league table doesnt lie....

Southampton are currently the best team in the division, and Doncater is the worst I have seen this season, and they are bottom.

That makes us the 3rd worst team, and soon to be 2nd when Bristol City pick up with their new boss.

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Spot on the table does not lie. The points we have chucked away this season, lack of goals, is typical of a side in the bottom 3

thats a scary thought about being 3pts off safety come tuesday night!

So nobody else thinks this was an attempt to keep players morale high and self-belief up, then? I really do keep finding my self in a minority of one!

Our starting 11 is better than the bottom 6 at least. But our main problem is goals. With Cody looking more of threat past 2 games then that hopefully might change our fortunes.

CUS Wyken said:

Our starting 11 is better than the bottom 6 at least. But our main problem is goals. With Cody looking more of threat past 2 games then that hopefully might change our fortunes.

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Better than bottom 6? We've only finished higher than the bottom 6 twice since relegation, and have lost our top 4 players.

Btw who is our best 11? And are we likely to be all fit at the same time for a run of 6+ matches?

This season we've never been able to put our the same starting line up more than 2 games running.

I think it was said more to keep fan confidence than players but can accept that as the intention NLHWC. However neither fans nor players are incapable of thought and the AT comments are not based on any real facts. It can come across as something of a fantasy it could actually hinder confidence of players and fans ( the following might be said in response to such claims "clutching at straws" "unbelievable" "doesnt know what he is doing" etc). If comments seen that way the intention is somewhat different to the outcome.

Every team can refer to moments in a game where the result could have been different including teams AT thinks we should have beaten, would bet some of those teams think they could have scored more. Also there are games where perhaps we have gained more than we should have.

For all the reasons discussed here and other forums etc we are where we are because that is what we have achieved. That is the fact that Players and fans see

stupot07 said:

Better than bottom 6? We've only finished higher than the bottom 6 twice since relegation, and have lost our top 4 players.

Btw who is our best 11? And are we likely to be all fit at the same time for a run of 6+ matches?

This season we've never been able to put our the same starting line up more than 2 games running.

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Read what i say. Our strongest starting 11 is good enough, its the resorces after that which we suffer in.

This team would finish comfortably above the relegation zone if fit and played reguarly.

Murphy
Keogh Wood Craine Christie
Clingan Baker Thomas Bigi
McDonald Juke

The amount of points dropped late on games proves this.

But he does believe that the players are better than a relegation side. I don't agree, but I can see how the manager would be incapable of doing his job if he didn't think the way that he does. I don't think it's to the point that it has a negative effect-it's not as if he's turned down big-money signings because he thinks these players are good enough! He's got limited resources and is trying to make the best of what we have. A large part of that is being positive, because I'll guarantee you one thing that won't get spirits in the camp high-going around saying we're crap and have a relegation-bound squad!

In general terms I do get the feeling that many people have "made their minds up" about Thorn: as soon as he open his gob, he's said the wrong thing again. I haven't really heard anything he's said that I have a problem with, and I think this thread is one of a multitude that are making mountains out of molehills.

CUS Wyken said:

Read what i say. Our strongest starting 11 is good enough, its the resorces after that which we suffer in.

This team would finish comfortably above the relegation zone if fit and played reguarly.

Murphy
Keogh Wood Craine Christie
Clingan Baker Thomas Bigi
McDonald Juke

The amount of points dropped late on games proves this.

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That team would struggle to stay up imo.

Think things have changed for AT. If you like the "honeymoon" period is well and truly over for a number of fans. It is almost as if it has changed from what he says (ie its positive and honest) to the way in which what he says is received being the important thing (the doubt that fans have because of results, perceived mistakes etc colouring how they hear it).

I will be honest, to begin with I was eager to hear his thoughts on the team etc, right now I almost make myself read or listen.

Yes he has to be positive, big things up if you want to put it that way. Just think the foundations of AT doing that are built a bit more on sand than rock just now. I also think because of the results and off field stuff there is a danger of what he says going in one ear and out the other for a lot of people including some players

CUS Wyken said:

Read what i say. Our strongest starting 11 is good enough, its the resorces after that which we suffer in.

This team would finish comfortably above the relegation zone if fit and played reguarly.

Murphy
Keogh Wood Craine Christie
Clingan Baker Thomas Bigi
McDonald Juke

The amount of points dropped late on games proves this.

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A team containing 3 players in their first season in first team football, with one of them playing out of position? Plus Carl baker. Who in your team would score you the 50 + goals we would need over a season?

stupot07 said:

A team containing 3 players in their first season in first team football, with one of them playing out of position? Plus Carl baker. Who in your team would score you the 50 + goals we would need over a season?

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On there day these players are capable of keeping this club up.

McDonald is strating to show promise and i reckon you'd get 15 out of him over the season. 10-15 of Juke. A fully fit Baker would get at least 8 along with Clingan 5 and the odd goal from Wood and Craine.

Like i said, the fact weve concded late goals has done us. Our goal difference proves that aswell. - 6 compared to teams around us on -15 and - 14.

Thorn has some tools and needs to use them right.