What are the options (1 Viewer)

[dongonzalos]

I know this post will possibly lead to arguments, disagreements etc but hopefully we can keep it civil and really debate what we actually do know, what we don't know and what we really do need to know.

With people setting up trusts, emailing Councillors, MPS etc..
With different people's skills and knowledge bases on here. I think it would be good to try and ascertain the above.

I am sure I will get some negative replies like "We don't know anything and never will etc... but can we try and keep it more constructive if possible.

I was hoping if maybe we can get to the most succinct and poignant questions, then if we post them to the CET and ask them to attempt to get an interview for the answers. Or the new Sky Blues Trust are going to try an engage with SISU could they request an interview an ask these questions.

Buy Out

SISU are in negotiations with Higgs to buy their shares in the Ricoh
(We know this as it has been confirmed by all parties )

We know if the Higgs charity get the right price they will accept it as they want out. They believe the suitabilityof SISU as half owner of the stadium is the responsibility of the council and is not in their remit.
We know if Higgs accept a bid. SISU still then have to convince the council that they are suitable.
We know SISU's initial bid was not enough but the negotiations are ongoing.

We don't know what SISU are offering,
We don't know what the Higgs Charity really want are they close or miles apart.
We don't know where this money is coming from
We don't know what this will mean for SISU and the club in the long term.
Do we know what the council's suitability criteria is?

Are SISU intending to sell the whole package once they get the deal.

What impact will owning half the stadium have on the budget for the club. How far will it go to offsetting our loses?

The Books

We dont know when the books will be submitted?
Do SISU have two budgets in mind. One if they can't strike a deal for the stadium,
one if they can strike a deal.
Can they submit the books now on the basis of the lesser deal than modify it later.

Redundancies

We don't know if this cost cutting leading to redundancies is related to owning half the stadium, will there be a reversal of this policy if SISU are successful in their negotiations.

Cost of relegation

What was the cost of relegation
How much have we actually lost in TV revenue
Someone mentioned premiership money??

Monthly loses

I assume by seeing a combination of the information contained in the books with the information about the actually costs of relegation, we may know what the genuine monthly loses are?

Savings

How much have we saved so far with the cost cutting strategy?

Administration/Liquidation

This one has probably been done to death. However there are still questions that need answering


There is a lot more knowledgeable people than me out there

If you think it is a good idea to try and get a list of questions together and try and ask the right people be it the council, Higgs, SISU, FA, the Trust or whoever then please contribute.

If you think my idea is crap, then maybe as oppose to just posting saying it is crap why not just ignore it and the thread will die a death. However I cant tell anyone what to post or not post so it is up to you.

 

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[dongonzalos]

BSB has answered the question on he premiership payments it is 2 million per club in the championship and drops to 700k in league one.

So we know we have lost at least 1.3 million via our relegation

 

[wingy]

I've got one i put to PKWH on his thread Dongon ,He's quoted "Sisu are the most sensible people to have been at the club ".What has lead him to this conclusion?

 

[wingy]

BSB has answered the question on he premiership payments it is 2 million per club in the championship and drops to 700k in league one.

So we know we have lost at least 1.3 million via our relegation

Incorrect dongon ',we've lost around £4m.,we recieved £2m. television money +£2.25m. Prem money and now recieve £300k. league money +i would assume circa £1.5m. gate money season tickets .

 

[dongonzalos]

I've got one i put to PKWH on his thread Dongon ,He's quted "Sisu are the most sensible people to have been at the club ".What has lead him to this conclusion?

That's an interesting question.

I assumed he meant this is the best I have come across of a really bad bunch so far.

Was he referring to the current SISU representative ie Tim Fisher as oppose to SISU are the most sensible?

However the best of a really bad bunch doesn't mean they are suitable.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

BSB has answered the question on he premiership payments it is 2 million per club in the championship and drops to 700k in league one.

So we know we have lost at least 1.3 million via our relegation

Apologies Don, I was slightly out with those numbers. Championship teams get £2.2 million, League One clubs get £325k. So the loss is more like £1.9m.

 

[dongonzalos]

Incorrect dongon ',we've lost around £4m.,we recieved £2m. television money +£2.25m. Prem money and now recieve £300k. league money +i would assume circa £1.5m. gate money season tickets .

Sorry Wingy the figure was based on how much we have lost from these premiership payments, not the whole cost of relegation.

However I am trying to establish that as well.

From the above are you saying the premiership actually paid us 2.25 million and it is now 300k?

 

[dongonzalos]

Apologies Don, I was slightly out with those numbers. Championship teams get £2.2 million, League One clubs get £325k. So the loss is more like £1.9m.

Right, no worries buddy this is what I am trying to encourage a bit of discussion so we can get to the right figures. If we are then happy we have the right figures we wont need to waste a question about this.

Thanks for the answers

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No worries. Key figures for me are a) how much we're in debt to ARVO by (and the rate at which this is increasing), and b) How much has been spent on directors' salaries and paying them off. The rest is more or less academic, but those two questions would tell us an awful lot of the behind the scenes running of the club-the reasons for certain departures an additional extra too.

 

[dongonzalos]

No worries. Key figures for me are a) how much we're in debt to ARVO by (and the rate at which this is increasing), and b) How much has been spent on directors' salaries and paying them off. The rest is more or less academic, but those two questions would tell us an awful lot of the behind the scenes running of the club-the reasons for certain departures an additional extra too.

That's made me think about payments to ex managers as well

 

[wingy]

No worries. Key figures for me are a) how much we're in debt to ARVO by (and the rate at which this is increasing), and b) How much has been spent on directors' salaries and paying them off. The rest is more or less academic, but those two questions would tell us an awful lot of the behind the scenes running of the club-the reasons for certain departures an additional extra too.

We've had a few hav'nt we ,IGWE -is he still taking anything ,Fisher -Investment Banker-i hope he's supplementing his income outside of us or he's costing a few bob.The one that really interests me who never gets a mention and could be the most significant regards the strategy for last season and whats happening now is the former Blair advisor and investment banker Labovitch ,i would imagine he costs serious shillings.:jerkit::jerkit:

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Loads of them Wingy-just look at who's listed on the club website; have all of those appointments been announced? There could have been (and indeed probably have been) countless comings and goings at boardroom level that we simply don't know about. What have all those people been doing and why did they leave so soon?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's made me think about payments to ex managers as well

All those payments should be visible in the accounts-when they get filed.

 

[dongonzalos]

We've had a few hav'nt we ,IGWE -is he still taking anything ,Fisher -Investment Banker-i hope he's supplementing his income outside of us or he's costing a few bob.The one that really interests me who never gets a mention and could be the most significant regards the strategy for last season and whats happening now is the former Blair advisor and investment banker Labovitch ,i would imagine he costs serious shillings.:jerkit::jerkit:

never even heard his name before?

 

[dongonzalos]

Loads of them Wingy-just look at who's listed on the club website; have all of those appointments been announced? There could have been (and indeed probably have been) countless comings and goings at boardroom level that we simply don't know about. What have all those people been doing and why did they leave so soon?

So other questions that needs answering then

What is the current structure of the boardroom?

What is each person's role and responsibilities?

What is currently been paid out to ex boardroom SMT member?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Take a read of the 'Who's who' section of the club website. Oggy is listed as reserve team manager (we haven't had a reserve team for years), Hoffman is still down as an associated director (resigned over a year ago). Useless.

 

[dongonzalos]

I should have really titled the thread "What are the key, unanswered questions?"

 

[Hadenough]

just a question for you

I know this post will possibly lead to arguments, disagreements etc but hopefully we can keep it civil and really debate what we actually do know, what we don't know and what we really do need to know.

With people setting up trusts, emailing Councillors, MPS etc..
With different people's skills and knowledge bases on here. I think it would be good to try and ascertain the above.

I am sure I will get some negative replies like "We don't know anything and never will etc... but can we try and keep it more constructive if possible.

I was hoping if maybe we can get to the most succinct and poignant questions, then if we post them to the CET and ask them to attempt to get an interview for the answers. Or the new Sky Blues Trust are going to try an engage with SISU could they request an interview an ask these questions.

Buy Out

SISU are in negotiations with Higgs to buy their shares in the Ricoh
(We know this as it has been confirmed by all parties )

We know if the Higgs charity get the right price they will accept it as they want out. They believe the suitabilityof SISU as half owner of the stadium is the responsibility of the council and is not in their remit.
We know if Higgs accept a bid. SISU still then have to convince the council that they are suitable.
We know SISU's initial bid was not enough but the negotiations are ongoing.

We don't know what SISU are offering,
We don't know what the Higgs Charity really want are they close or miles apart.
We don't know where this money is coming from
We don't know what this will mean for SISU and the club in the long term.
Do we know what the council's suitability criteria is?

Are SISU intending to sell the whole package once they get the deal.

What impact will owning half the stadium have on the budget for the club. How far will it go to offsetting our loses?

The Books

We dont know when the books will be submitted?
Do SISU have two budgets in mind. One if they can't strike a deal for the stadium,
one if they can strike a deal.
Can they submit the books now on the basis of the lesser deal than modify it later.

Redundancies

We don't know if this cost cutting leading to redundancies is related to owning half the stadium, will there be a reversal of this policy if SISU are successful in their negotiations.

Cost of relegation

What was the cost of relegation
How much have we actually lost in TV revenue
Someone mentioned premiership money??

Monthly loses

I assume by seeing a combination of the information contained in the books with the information about the actually costs of relegation, we may know what the genuine monthly loses are?

Savings

How much have we saved so far with the cost cutting strategy?

Administration/Liquidation

This one has probably been done to death. However there are still questions that need answering


There is a lot more knowledgeable people than me out there

If you think it is a good idea to try and get a list of questions together and try and ask the right people be it the council, Higgs, SISU, FA, the Trust or whoever then please contribute.

If you think my idea is crap, then maybe as oppose to just posting saying it is crap why not just ignore it and the thread will die a death. However I cant tell anyone what to post or not post so it is up to you.

are you a card carrying member of Sisu or just a consultant?

 

[dongonzalos]

are you a card carrying member of Sisu or just a consultant?

Don't really understand your point to be honest, sorry.

If it is sarcasm, then apologies, it has gone straight over my head.

If you are serious, then I am not what you would class as a fan of SISU, never mind working for them

 

[wingy]

Going to go off topic here then Dongon ,given it s safe to assume a loss of around circa £5.5m.income ,what level of wage savings have we achieved during the last season?

 

[Macca]

I know this post will possibly lead to arguments, disagreements etc but hopefully we can keep it civil and really debate what we actually do know, what we don't know and what we really do need to know.

With people setting up trusts, emailing Councillors, MPS etc..
With different people's skills and knowledge bases on here. I think it would be good to try and ascertain the above.

I am sure I will get some negative replies like "We don't know anything and never will etc... but can we try and keep it more constructive if possible.

I was hoping if maybe we can get to the most succinct and poignant questions, then if we post them to the CET and ask them to attempt to get an interview for the answers. Or the new Sky Blues Trust are going to try an engage with SISU could they request an interview an ask these questions.

Buy Out

SISU are in negotiations with Higgs to buy their shares in the Ricoh
(We know this as it has been confirmed by all parties )

We know if the Higgs charity get the right price they will accept it as they want out. They believe the suitabilityof SISU as half owner of the stadium is the responsibility of the council and is not in their remit.
We know if Higgs accept a bid. SISU still then have to convince the council that they are suitable.
We know SISU's initial bid was not enough but the negotiations are ongoing.

We don't know what SISU are offering,
We don't know what the Higgs Charity really want are they close or miles apart.
We don't know where this money is coming from
We don't know what this will mean for SISU and the club in the long term.
Do we know what the council's suitability criteria is?

Are SISU intending to sell the whole package once they get the deal.

What impact will owning half the stadium have on the budget for the club. How far will it go to offsetting our loses?

The Books

We dont know when the books will be submitted?
Do SISU have two budgets in mind. One if they can't strike a deal for the stadium,
one if they can strike a deal.
Can they submit the books now on the basis of the lesser deal than modify it later.

Redundancies

We don't know if this cost cutting leading to redundancies is related to owning half the stadium, will there be a reversal of this policy if SISU are successful in their negotiations.

Cost of relegation

What was the cost of relegation
How much have we actually lost in TV revenue
Someone mentioned premiership money??

Monthly loses

I assume by seeing a combination of the information contained in the books with the information about the actually costs of relegation, we may know what the genuine monthly loses are?

Savings

How much have we saved so far with the cost cutting strategy?

Administration/Liquidation

This one has probably been done to death. However there are still questions that need answering


There is a lot more knowledgeable people than me out there

If you think it is a good idea to try and get a list of questions together and try and ask the right people be it the council, Higgs, SISU, FA, the Trust or whoever then please contribute.

If you think my idea is crap, then maybe as oppose to just posting saying it is crap why not just ignore it and the thread will die a death. However I cant tell anyone what to post or not post so it is up to you.

Sisu are a bunch of knob jockeys.

 

[dongonzalos]

That would be pretty important to discover, according to Cllr Mutton, our biggest expenditure is wages.

As far as I am aware we have lost

Clingan, was this supposed to be 7k per week. (336K a year)
Fatswood, was this supposed to be 10 k a week (480K a year)
Platt, totally guessing 3k a week (144K a year)
Clarke-Harris 500 quid a week (24K)
Heman 3k a week (144 k a year)
The physio? (25K)
Harrison (40)K

Would we have been contributing to Norwood and Nimely's wages?

Is there anyone else who has gone?

All the above is guessing, so yes a direct question that could be asked to SISU, would be how much a month have we saved on wages as a result of player sales, releases and staff redundancies

 

[wingy]

Its difficult to detrmine as there is a chroniological effect to things ,i think OSB determined somewhere what he thought losses were up to this season from previous accounts, that oft quoted £500k. pm.makes that £6m. ,then we lost fourteen players last summer and Turner /Juke through the season added to yours.i'm sure this has been done elsewhere but its good to refresh the memory.Income lost /nett savings =shortfall /player sales.

 

[dongonzalos]

Yep, just trying to to establish what we do actually know
leaving a list of key questions we should but don't

Good point about Juke that was last season. However I suppose we should try and focus on the cost cutting since TF said we are losing 500k a month.

Really we need to know the true average we are losing a month. Then what impact has the relegation had on this figure and what impact has the cost cutting had this figure.
Then what impact would a share of the stadium revenue have on it?

 

[shepardo01]

SISU offered the Council £6 Million for a half share in the Ricoh (Which at this time is reportedly worth around 30 Million) Fact.

 

[dongonzalos]

SISU offered the Council £6 Million for a half share in the Ricoh (Which at this time is reportedly worth around 30 Million) Fact.

That was the recent offer to the Higgs charity?

 

[ccfcway]

well thats about 6 million more than I thought they would offer

We still ok to not pay rent ?

Who on earth is going to stand up to these people ?

 

[skyblue1523]

if sisu offered 6 million i'm sure the higgs trust could have accepted this as they only paid 4 million for their share at the time .As some on here have said in previous threads higgs can not sell their share at a loss.But if sisu offered 6 million then thats a 50% increase on what the higgs trust paid.Thats a tidy profit in todays market

 

[wingy]

if sisu offered 6 million i'm sure the higgs trust could have accepted this as they only paid 4 million for their share at the time .As some on here have said in previous threads higgs can not sell their share at a loss.But if sisu offered 6 million then thats a 50% increase on what the higgs trust paid.Thats a tidy profit in todays market

never seen 4m. quoted anywhere before 6m
Is tbe figure always published then there is an element to allow increase in asset and inflation
After all they would have generating profit or income on other projects if they werre not lroppimg up a disfunctional club

 

[dongonzalos]

There was an article in the CET by that Paul Fletcher I think, which stated how much the Higgs charity paid

 

[ccfcway]

Higgs paid 4 million for half the stadium ?

so the stadium is worth 8 million ?

 

[dongonzalos]

But the club’s massive financial problems came to a head following relegation from the Premier League and under the chairmanship of Mike McGinnity, City were so desperate to stave off administration that they sold their shares to the Higgs Charitable Trust for a “snip” of around £4m at a time Fletcher says the Arena had been valued at £37m, therefore making their share worth around £18.5m

Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...coventry-city-92746-30988063/2/#ixzz1xzkNrJac
​

​

 

[dongonzalos]

However, if they bought it for 4 million. Yet it is worth 18.5. Why should they not demand 18.5.

Cov sold it at that price as they were desperate. Higgs are ready to come out but they are not desperate.

I hope their reply to SISU's offer was "This is not a charity you know"

 

[Grendel]

However, if they bought it for 4 million. Yet it is worth 18.5. Why should they not demand 18.5.

Cov sold it at that price as they were desperate. Higgs are ready to come out but they are not desperate.

I hope their reply to SISU's offer was "This is not a charity you know"

Ah so Paul fletcher thinks its worth £37.5 million do it is. Well it must be he thought it was value to pay Doyle £15,000 a week. It was his profligacy with contracts that helped get us in this mess.

 

[dongonzalos]

Scarey money 15k a week