What do people want the FA / EFL to do? (1 Viewer)

[Nick]

I keep seeing people demanding they step in.

What realistically can they do at the minute while we are in this situation?

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Like last time, they want somehow the FL to remove the golden share from OEG (CCFC) and give it to a non-existent other club called CCFC

 

[Cavan O'Doherty]

 

[Nick]

I'm not sure whether they are thinking logically.

I even saw Henry Winter call on them to do something but didn't say what they could actually do about it? I haven't seen somebody realistically give an answer yet. It is usually just "fit and proper owners test" with no real explanation.

I thought they could only step in if things that were illegal had been committed?

I am genuinely interest to find out what people think they can realistically do to help the situation. They can't force Wasps to let us play there, they can't force SISU to drop the legal stuff (as sadly by law they are entitled to).

 

[clint van damme]

I'm not sure whether they are thinking logically.

I even saw Henry Winter call on them to do something but didn't say what they could actually do about it? I haven't seen somebody realistically give an answer yet. It is usually just "fit and proper owners test" with no real explanation.

I thought they could only step in if things that were illegal had been committed?

I am genuinely interest to find out what people think they can realistically do to help the situation. They can't force Wasps to let us play there, they can't force SISU to drop the legal stuff (as sadly by law they are entitled to).

It's a bit like Brexit. People keep saying leave means leave without actually explaing what leave means.

 

[Nick]

It's a bit like Brexit. People keep saying leave means leave without actually explaing what leave means.

Now you have done it, guaranteed 100 pager

 

[rob9872]

They should have come to the party long before it got to this stage. They allowed the Northampton debacle despite it breaking their own rules so I doubt they'll care this time either. They didn't ensure they passed any fit & proper owners test, but the minimum they should do this time is offer mediation services and pro-actively try to get all parties around the table with the club's interest being fundamental and at the heart of the decisions not used as a pawn to be pushed around by either side. The fact we don't hear from them other than in a passing statement confirms that they really couldn't care less either way about us and as a founding member that too is a sad fact.

 

[Nick]

They should have come to the party long before it got to this stage. They allowed the Northampton debacle despite it breaking their own rules so I doubt they'll care this time either. They didn't ensure they passed any fit & proper owners test, but the minimum they should do this time is offer mediation services and pro-actively try to get all parties around the table with the club's interest being fundamental and at the heart of the decisions not used as a pawn to be pushed around by either side. The fact we don't hear from them other than in a passing statement confirms that they really couldn't care less either way about us and as a founding member that too is a sad fact.

What would they have failed fit and proper owners tests though?

They would have to look at it from the clubs point of view, aside from legal action what could they do stuff about?

The EFL have no say over Wasps giving us a deal.

 

[chiefdave]

Fit and proper is a self certification test anyway but even if it was more robustly enforced it would need the clubs owners to do something illegal before the share could be withdrawn and as far as I'm aware as bad as things have been they haven't actually broken any laws.

Can you imagine the court case? Joy would be up there talking about how they took over a club millions in debt losing £6m a year and got it practically to break even point before being forced out by the FL.

Similarly if they say we will enforce the rules and we have to play in Coventry what happens if Wasps maintain their stance and refuse to talk? Club folds. Or maybe Wasps say we want £2m a year rent, it would take longer but would no doubt eventually lead to no club.

 

[rob9872]

What would they have failed fit and proper owners tests though?

They would have to look at it from the clubs point of view, aside from legal action what could they do stuff about?

The EFL have no say over Wasps giving us a deal.

They would have failed the first hurdle because they didn't disclose who the owners were and how many share they each held - that was in breach of the rules at the time. They allowed a move outside the barrier which they themselves set.
They can't insist on W*sps giving us a deal, I've not suggested they can. What I stated was that they should at the very minimum offer mediation and help get them around a table to enter into discussions.

You can pull each and every argument apart piece by piece to continue to point scoring, but ultimately achieves nothing and if you don't think that they have in any way let the club down a long time ago, well before it got to this stage then I think you're only fooling yourself. #

As I referred on the other thread, my opinion is that ACL, the EFL, the club, the council, SISU and our previous owners have all played their part in our painful demise but the only ones appearing to continually suffer are us fans.

 

[Nick]

They would have failed the first hurdle because they didn't disclose who the owners were and how many share they each held - that was in breach of the rules at the time. They allowed a move outside the barrier which they themselves set.
They can't insist on W*sps giving us a deal, I've not suggested they can. What I stated was that they should at the very minimum offer mediation and help get them around a table to enter into discussions.

You can pull each and every argument apart piece by piece to continue to point scoring, but ultimately achieves nothing and if you don't think that they have in any way let the club down a long time ago, well before it got to this stage then I think you're only fooling yourself. #

As I referred on the other thread, my opinion is that ACL, the EFL, the club, the council, SISU and our previous owners have all played their part in our painful demise but the only ones appearing to continually suffer are us fans.

It's not point scoring, it's genuinely asking what the EFL could do.

Anybody can volunteer to mediate, nobody has to listen to them.

 

[rob9872]

It's not point scoring, it's genuinely asking what the EFL could do.

Anybody can volunteer to mediate, nobody has to listen to them.

But they're not even trying - my assumption is that they don't care and I've not seen a contradictory argument either before or now that suggests they do. If this was a bigger club people would be all over it. We were the last team hit with a points deduction (twice) and yet didn't fail to meet any of our commitments or put small businesses out of work in the way Leicester did (twice) whilst having to watch them rise through the ranks and become EPL champions! At the time I, like everyone else, thought SISU was the answer. With hindsight we should have gone into administration at that time and we'd be in a lot stronger position today.

 

[King of the Lesbians]

With hindsight we should have gone into administration at that time and we'd be in a lot stronger position today.

I see this being said every now and again but have no clue.
Could you give me a dumbed down version of why this would be the case.

 

[robbiekeane]

You can pull each and every argument apart piece by piece

Only if they are shit ones like they all are

 

[Nick]

But they're not even trying - my assumption is that they don't care and I've not seen a contradictory argument either before or now that suggests they do. If this was a bigger club people would be all over it. We were the last team hit with a points deduction (twice) and yet didn't fail to meet any of our commitments or put small businesses out of work in the way Leicester did (twice) whilst having to watch them rise through the ranks and become EPL champions! At the time I, like everyone else, thought SISU was the answer. With hindsight we should have gone into administration at that time and we'd be in a lot stronger position today.

The thing is though, all they can do is offer to meditate. It would hold no authority at all. Wasps could laugh them out of the room.

 

[chiefdave]

They can't insist on W*sps giving us a deal, I've not suggested they can. What I stated was that they should at the very minimum offer mediation and help get them around a table to enter into discussions.

What happened to the mediation that the court ordered take place? Don't recall anything ever being said after that.

Might be a good thing for the trust to pick up. Suggest mediation and offer that chap from Cov Cathedral (if he's still around) that was involved in the club coming back from Northampton.

 

[Frank Sidebottom]

They've basically done all they can by saying the club has to play in Coventry or the club will be removed from the football league.... I suspect however if push came to shove we would end up in exile again as SISU would probably take legal action against the football league if they were to kick us out and SISU had agreed a groundshare outside of Coventry for 1 season.
All the FL can do is kick us out the league, Or back down and let us play outside of Coventry... I'm still fairly confident that a deal will be done to keep us at the Ricoh.... I'll start to worry if we don't have a deal by June.

 

[Nick]

They've basically done all they can by saying the club has to play in Coventry or the club will be removed from the football league.... I suspect however if push came to shove we would end up in exile again as SISU would probably take legal action against the football league if they were to kick us out and SISU had agreed a groundshare outside of Coventry for 1 season.
All the FL can do is kick us out the league, Or back down and let us play outside of Coventry... I'm still fairly confident that a deal will be done to keep us at the Ricoh.... I'll start to worry if we don't have a deal by June.

They would open up a massive can of worms if they kicked the club out of the league. Stadium owners would be planning the next rental amount.

 

[Grendel]

In the end they can’t do anything. You can’t force a commercial organisation to sign a rental arrangement with another commercial organisation. You also can’t issue sanctions for commercial mismanagement

 

[Otis]

I assume the only thing they can do is to sanction us playing elsewhere.

They have no other powers here on this issue I would have thought.

 

[Grendel]

I assume the only thing they can do is to sanction us playing elsewhere.

They have no other powers here on this issue I would have thought.

Then they’d get sued. Also no ccfc fan would want that

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Sorry if it's been discussed already, but surely SISU can't let CCFC go belly up. otherwise they would have to write off their investment and it would create an immediate big hole in their accounts - and they would then have to hand the golden share back? Can't see them allowing that to happen.

 

[Otis]

Then they’d get sued. Also no ccfc fan would want that

I know. Just saying I think that is only thing in their powers that they can do, but that in itself would need a bending of the rules.

 

[Nick]

I know. Just saying I think that is only thing in their powers that they can do, but that in itself would need a bending of the rules.

If they say it's the Ricoh or you are out of the league it would start a much bigger shit storm than sisu to be fair.

 

[Liquid Gold]

There is nothing they can do in our situation but they should be introducing rules to properly safeguard clubs. Things like putting regulations that all clubs have to own their stadium, obviously they couldn't force clubs that don't currently but with any move they have to become sole owners and never be separated. Maybe the golden share is kept with the football league and effectively leased to the club owners and upon breaking certain regulations the club is sold at an independent value.

Again, they can do nothing for us now though. I think people are genuinely expecting them to take the club from Sisu and give it to some fictional super owners.

 

[Nick]

There is nothing they can do in our situation but they should be introducing rules to properly safeguard clubs. Things like putting regulations that all clubs have to own their stadium, obviously they couldn't force clubs that don't currently but with any move they have to become sole owners and never be separated. Maybe the golden share is kept with the football league and effectively leased to the club owners and upon breaking certain regulations the club is sold at an independent value.

Again, they can do nothing for us now though. I think people are genuinely expecting them to take the club from Sisu and give it to some fictional super owners.

That's the thing, decent rules that could make a different have to have been there from the start.

 

[Adge]

Fit and proper owners test-Mmm,I’m sure that Sisu probably met that criteria at the time. Little did we know......
What can the EFL do now? Not a great deal and I think they have fired the only shot they can that the club “must play in Coventry”.

 

[clerkin61]

I might be wrong here, (probably am!) but I vaguely remember reading that one of the conditions of wasps taking over the Ricoh was that the takeover couldn't adversely affect the club, and it is. If that WAS a condition of the takeover then surely wasps are breaking a contract with the council or someone.

 

[Nick]

I might be wrong here, (probably am!) but I vaguely remember reading that one of the conditions of wasps taking over the Ricoh was that the takeover couldn't adversely affect the club, and it is. If that WAS a condition of the takeover then surely wasps are breaking a contract with the council or someone.

The council have washed their hands with that and said that they only meant for the 4 years the existing agreement lasted.

 

[covcity4life]

"4 years then the club can go fuck themselves" - anne lucas

 

[fernandopartridge]

In the end they can’t do anything. You can’t force a commercial organisation to sign a rental arrangement with another commercial organisation. You also can’t issue sanctions for commercial mismanagement

...and I don't think there is anything in the golden share which states a club has to be based in a certain location, the MK Dons debacle showed that.

 

[Gibbo]

Can I ask a couple of dumb questions
Regardless of historic debt, is the club running at a loss on its current incoming and outgoings including player transfer income/purchase cost?
I assume it is, but would like it clarified.
Secondly who is picking up the tab?

 

[AVWskyblue]

The council have washed their hands with that and said that they only meant for the 4 years the existing agreement lasted.

Surely the answer lies in the pledge including cov rugby, was that only for 4 years too?

Sent from my 5010X using Tapatalk

 

[chiefdave]

Can I ask a couple of dumb questions
Regardless of historic debt, is the club running at a loss on its current incoming and outgoings including player transfer income/purchase cost?
I assume it is, but would like it clarified.
Secondly who is picking up the tab?

From the Telegraph

Coventry City’s finances improved in the last financial year on the back of last season’s Wembley glory in the Checkatrade Trophy - but bosses warn the club will still need more funding from its owners.

Accounts for Otium Entertainment, which is the football club business, show the Sky Blues managed to come out of the financial year ending in May 2017 with a gross profit of £4.62m - up £304,301 on 2016.

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But staff costs of £4.172m and administrative costs of £1.564m turned that into an operating loss of £1.1m – down from £1.75m the year before.

Otium bosses admit “significant investment” is still required both financially and otherwise if the team is to “remain competitive”.

Money from player sales has crashed to just £252,087 for the last 12 months, compared to £2,478,588 in 2016.

And changes to the ticketing system have also seen running costs soar at the club by more than £380,000 year-on-year.

 

[Loughborough Sky Blue]

I see this being said every now and again but have no clue.
Could you give me a dumbed down version of why this would be the case.

When SISU took the club over, they took on all the existing debt, which we continued trying to pay (along with all the interest and 'administration fees' added onto it). Had we gone into administration, the administrator would've invited offers from any interested parties (which more than likely would've been several different people/consortiums, as we were a half decent championship side at the time, with an option to buy half of ACL for a relatively cheap price). Those offers would've been similar to the ones the like of Leicester made when they went into admin, paying off anywhere from 1-10p in the £ of the debt - thus potentially leaving us completely debt free and with half a stadium for not a huge amount of money. from there we may have progressed up the league, or at least been able to negotiate a similar deal as Wasps for the remainder of the Ricoh.