What is the Ricoh Worth (1 Viewer)

Cityfan1 · Sep 4, 2013

Taking out the hatred that is felt by many for SISU, and just viewing it as Coventry City FC supporters wanting the club and the stadium under single ownership, what is a realistic price that should or could be paid, bearing in mind that to my mind there are only two real options available.
1. Buying out ACL and then renegotiating an extended lease of 100 yrs + with CCC for all revenues associated with the Arena.

2. Buying out the Freehold of the Arena from CCC, whilst liquidating ACL, and clearing all outstanding contracts

I know that most of us are not in a position to put a figure to either of these options, but i would say that the arena itself is worth an hell of a lot less without the club than with it.

RPHunt · Sep 4, 2013

A damned sight more than whatever SISU are, supposedly, planning to build.

James Smith · Sep 4, 2013

RPHunt said:
A damned sight more than whatever SISU are, supposedly, planning to build.

Or willing to offer it would appear, hence why we need the new stadium.

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 4, 2013

Cityfan1 said:
2. Buying out the Freehold of the Arena from CCC, whilst liquidating ACL, and clearing all outstanding contracts

£20-30Mil..

fernandopartridge · Sep 4, 2013

It's worth as much as the highest bidder is willing to pay for it.

GaryPendrysEyes · Sep 4, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
It's worth as much as the highest bidder is willing to pay for it.

Wow you'll be saying next that a rent is worth whatever someone is willing to pay and sign a contract for.
Nah.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 4, 2013

The King Power stadium cost £37m to build 10 yeas ago. That's of a similar size, but without the Ricoh's other attractions to raise cash. As such, there's no way a figure of anything less than £40m+ would be sensible to build anything like it

I would suggest - give the current position - £30 - 35m, minus some £10m as a signal of good faith to repay all rents paid by the club since starting to play there.

So, £20 - 25m. If SISU can show me they've offered a figure anything near that, I think I - like every other right-minded City fan - would be demanding it was accepted without delay

fernandopartridge · Sep 4, 2013

GaryPendrysEyes said:
Wow you'll be saying next that a rent is worth whatever someone is willing to pay and sign a contract for.
Nah.

I agree with that. The rent is only worth as much as somebody is willing to pay.

fernandopartridge · Sep 4, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
The King Power stadium cost £37m to build 10 yeas ago. That's of a similar size, but without the Ricoh's other attractions to raise cash. As such, there's no way a figure of anything less than £40m+ would be sensible to build anything like it

I would suggest - give the current position - £30 - 35m, minus some £10m as a signal of good faith to repay all rents paid by the club since starting to play there.

So, £20 - 25m. If SISU can show me they've offered a figure anything near that, I think I - like every other right-minded City fan - would be demanding it was accepted without delay

That sounds plausible. I am dubious about the £113m cost attributed to the building of the Ricoh, I get the feeling that £113m is really the cost of the Arena + Tesco + associated highway works

Cityfan1 · Sep 4, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
It's worth as much as the highest bidder is willing to pay for it.

I would agree but then again as it is predominantly a football Stadium and CCC have always insisted that it is a community asset built for the regeneration of the area and for the football club, would you not think there should be a degree of concession towards CCFC.

italiahorse · Sep 4, 2013

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
The King Power stadium cost £37m to build 10 yeas ago. That's of a similar size, but without the Ricoh's other attractions to raise cash. As such, there's no way a figure of anything less than £40m+ would be sensible to build anything like it

I would suggest - give the current position - £30 - 35m, minus some £10m as a signal of good faith to repay all rents paid by the club since starting to play there.

So, £20 - 25m. If SISU can show me they've offered a figure anything near that, I think I - like every other right-minded City fan - would be demanding it was accepted without delay

So with the £4M per year we are loosing at Sixfields we could pay for it in 5 years ?
Mmmm something is afoot with SISU plans?

FOS

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 4, 2013

Does anyone know how much roughly the Casino and Hotel take is year?

italiahorse · Sep 4, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
That sounds plausible. I am dubious about the £113m cost attributed to the building of the Ricoh, I get the feeling that £113m is really the cost of the Arena + Tesco + associated highway works

and maybe .... the casino, the jaguar hall, the hotel, the conference facilities etc all add to the cost.

italiahorse · Sep 4, 2013

We only need the stadium.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 4, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
That sounds plausible. I am dubious about the £113m cost attributed to the building of the Ricoh, I get the feeling that £113m is really the cost of the Arena + Tesco + associated highway works

That's always how I have viewed it

italiahorse · Sep 4, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Does anyone know how much roughly the Casino and Hotel take is year?

Why? are CCFC entitled to that as well ?

No future with SISU · Sep 4, 2013

James Smith said:
Or willing to offer it would appear, hence why we need the new stadium.

How much will it cost to build a new stadium for 12,000 to 25,000 people. If you look into current bullding costs and interest payments on a loan of that amount, the rent at the RICOH is so cheap.I forgot about buying expansive land in warwickshire.

sky blue john · Sep 4, 2013

So MMM if you would demand ccc to sell the freehold to Sisu for 20-25million. Who would be left with the outstanding 15million loan?

Cityfan1 · Sep 4, 2013

italiahorse said:
Why? are CCFC entitled to that as well ?

Why are ACL entitled to it because they own the lease and CCC own the freehold, this is the revenue CCFC need.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 4, 2013

italiahorse said:
We only need the stadium.

Neah. Ideally you'd want it all. There's a standalone case for the other bits, as they make cash; and by unifying it all, there's more turnover which helps with FFP.

Besides, things like naming rights are much more lucrative as a multi-faced arena, then purely a sports venue.

For example, Ricoh pay £1m for naming rights for Coventry. For a football club alone at this level, the income is closer to one quarter of that.

Keeping it together makes it a better business proposition all round

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 4, 2013

italiahorse said:
Why? are CCFC entitled to that as well ?

Well no that wasn't why I asked, but can't SISU say right the figure CCC want is £30Mil, Give CCC £10Mil up front and then installments using the revenue from the Casino, Exhibition Hall, Conference Centre and Hotel, until the £30Mil figure is paid off?

thaiskyblue · Sep 4, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Well no that wasn't why I asked, but can't SISU say right the figure CCC want is £30Mil, Give CCC £10Mil up front and then installments using the revenue from the Casino, Exhibition Hall, Conference Centre and Hotel, until the £30Mil figure is paid off?

sisu want to pay peanuts no where near the market rate , check out their previous business dealings they are parasites.

Cityfan1 · Sep 4, 2013

sky blue john said:
So MMM if you would demand ccc to sell the freehold to Sisu for 20-25million. Who would be left with the outstanding 15million loan?

As i stated at the start of the thread with the sale of the freehold, ACL would be liquidated, and as the lease they currently have with CCC is also the amount borrowed from CCC to cover the cost of the lease, this would be liquidated as well.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Sep 4, 2013

sky blue john said:
So MMM if you would demand ccc to sell the freehold to Sisu for 20-25million. Who would be left with the outstanding 15million loan?

It would have to be settled as part of the transaction; as it's a legacy of the mortgage ACL are carrying in any case.

I know what you are implying - in other words that which is left isn't huge - but I'm trying to offer a sensible analysis given current circumstances; with a deal that should suits as many of the parties as possible. I was always taught that the art of successful negotiation is for all parties to leave the table thinking they've got something. Sure, there would be pain for some; but the reality of not reaching consensus is that it could be a whole lot more pain for all.

However, it's also indication of a deal that would very much suit the club. As such, if SISU aren't already offering something like this, it's no wonder we are where we are. I - like every 'fan' - have always wanted a deal that suited the football club; but equally know (and predicted) that a deal designed to totally shaft one party to the advantage of the other would always lead us down a road such as the one we've gone along

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 4, 2013

thaiskyblue said:
sisu want to pay peanuts no where near the market rate , check out their previous business dealings they are parasites.

I get that, however I am trying to look at this in a way that benefits all parties.

SISU Buy the Freehold for £10Mil on an agreement...
That CCC continue to receieve 100% revenue on the Conference Centre, Hotel, Exhibition Centre and Casino until the who sum is paid fully.
CCFC Get the Ricoh and all the benefits that come with Arena..
Including all the additional parts of the Arena like th Casino, etc once they have paid off CCC.

sky blue john · Sep 4, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Well no that wasn't why I asked, but can't SISU say right the figure CCC want is £30Mil, Give CCC £10Mil up front and then installments using the revenue from the Casino, Exhibition Hall, Conference Centre and Hotel, until the £30Mil figure is paid off?

This is why you support Sisu no grasp of what's going on or business acumen !!

RFC · Sep 4, 2013

Not a lot according to Paul Fletcher & Ray Ranson?

No future with SISU · Sep 4, 2013

Cost of Stadium

It cost £54m to build the stadium and a £2.9m over spend. The land cost £24m and £17m to clean it up. Some of the land was sold to Tesco for £45m. That was over 10 years ago and as costs have risen it will cost more now. All these figures are available on the council records for 2005. They are a Public body so have to publish their figures unlike SISU who are a private company.

italiahorse · Sep 4, 2013

Cityfan1 said:
Why are ACL entitled to it because they own the lease and CCC own the freehold, this is the revenue CCFC need.

No because they financed them all.
SISU could, if they made an offer at the correct value, have it all.
However reading between the lines, they need to get it at below market value, so they can make a profit.
Obviously because they are the main customer (?) they should have some preferential treatment here.

The actual situation is guesswork but ...............

Did ACL make a play for the club by putting CCFC Ltd into Administration and having buyers for the club ready ? But get caught out because SISU some how got the players into Holdings?
Did SISU make a play for the Ricoh by withholding rent, forcing the bank to call in the debt which SISU were going to pick up ? But got out manoeuvred by CCC picking up the loan. Hence the JR.

sky blue john · Sep 4, 2013

I will admit i don't want Sisu owning the stadium. For starters i don't trust them and neither should any of you !!!!
Saying that i have not got a problem with the council keeping the freehold and ccfc taking over the acl role !!
This way Sisu can't borrow against the stadium and hopefully the club will benefit. !!!!

Cityfan1 · Sep 4, 2013

No future with SISU said:
It cost £54m to build the stadium and a £2.9m over spend. The land cost £24m and £17m to clean it up. Some of the land was sold to Tesco for £45m. That was over 10 years ago and as costs have risen it will cost more now. All these figures are available on the council records for 2005. They are a Public body so have to publish their figures unlike SISU who are a private company.

You are correct that these figures are available, but you have not given all the relivant costs or additional income within your statment, for example Tesco did pay £45m, but they also contributed another £17m in kind as well as contributions from ERDF of £4.3m, AWM OF £4.8m & £5.9m from the Isle of Capri (for the building costs of the Casino) But that is ancient history, the question is what is the Ricoh worth

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 4, 2013

sky blue john said:
This is why you support Sisu no grasp of what's going on or business acumen !!

Tell me then why this couldn't work if a contract was written up and terms signed.

thaiskyblue · Sep 4, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Tell me then why this couldn't work if a contract was written up and terms signed.

4 letters sisu.

italiahorse · Sep 4, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
Well no that wasn't why I asked, but can't SISU say right the figure CCC want is £30Mil, Give CCC £10Mil up front and then installments using the revenue from the Casino, Exhibition Hall, Conference Centre and Hotel, until the £30Mil figure is paid off?

But the £30M would be for the stadium not the complex so they could not use the income. It would be double that for the lot.
Your right though we need to see some offers from SISU and some valuations from ACL/CCC

italiahorse · Sep 4, 2013

thaiskyblue said:
4 letters sisu.

They would not buy the stadium to keep.
Just sell it too them so they can attach the team and then sell it on.
Contracts would safeguard the stadium as a home for CCFC.

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