What on earth happened? (3 Viewers)

wingy · Wednesday at 6:53 PM

Well you can say the first part didn't get off to a decent start after the year before and the pitch debacle, someone between the 3 coaches held them back or it was too much to expect instant gelling or the New guy's being too quiet, someone maybe should have sorted that before it was as far as I'm concerned,or maybe there was a condition in contract of some that restricted the strikers to not score any more goals!

Edit. I'd also consider Haji for captain.

shmmeee · Wednesday at 7:15 PM

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes, because for one third of the season we were on 2 points a game or slightly better. The cup run aside from Wolves was pretty generous too.

The point is that collectively these players are much less than the sum of their parts and it appears the good form last season was the exception to the rule.

Damn. We should probably keep hold of the guy that capable of making them more than their parts then.

shmmeee · Wednesday at 7:16 PM

skybluecam said:
Shmeee back playing defence for Robins as soon as his turkey’s digested

If facts are a defence of Robins then that’s not because of me.

I’d just like you guys to decide if last season was so bad the manager needed sacking or an amazing feat with a crap squad, but we need to sack the manager because he’s more responsible for the signings than getting the best out of them or something.

Brighton Sky Blue · Wednesday at 7:24 PM

shmmeee said:
Damn. We should probably keep hold of the guy that capable of making them more than their parts then.

For most of the time he had them, he couldn't.

clint van damme · Wednesday at 7:25 PM

shmmeee said:
If facts are a defence of Robins then that’s not because of me.

I’d just like you guys to decide if last season was so bad the manager needed sacking or an amazing feat with a crap squad, but we need to sack the manager because he’s more responsible for the signings than getting the best out of them or something.

Tell you what's strange, is the people who keep bringing Robins up are the ones who claim other people are obsessed with him.

Search his name in this thread for exhibit A!

shmmeee · Wednesday at 7:25 PM

Brighton Sky Blue said:
For most of the time he had them, he couldn't.

Weird. You just said he did.

I’d talk to someone about that but clearly you don’t need me here for this argument so I’ll leave you to it.

Brighton Sky Blue · Wednesday at 7:30 PM

shmmeee said:
Weird. You just said he did.

Did I?

shmmeee · Wednesday at 8:24 PM

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Did I?

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yes, because for one third of the season we were on 2 points a game or slightly better. The cup run aside from Wolves was pretty generous too.

The point is that collectively these players are much less than the sum of their parts and it appears the good form last season was the exception to the rule.

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Did I?

Fucking quotes the wrong way round but yeah you did. You said we had a good season. 9th is good from this squad, no?

I think considering what we’ve seen under other managers 9th with this lot looks more and more like a fucking miracle.

Brighton Sky Blue · Wednesday at 8:32 PM

shmmeee said:
Fucking quotes the wrong way round but yeah you did. You said we had a good season. 9th is good from this squad, no?

I think considering what we’ve seen under other managers 9th with this lot looks more and more like a fucking miracle.

I said we had a good bit of form in the middle of the season. For two thirds of it things were like what we're seeing now.

The other key thing is while the squads are very similar, O'Hare had his purple patch at the same time we went on a decent run. Perhaps these players really aren't good enough for more than a relegation scrap.

shmmeee · Wednesday at 8:58 PM

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I said we had a good bit of form in the middle of the season. For two thirds of it things were like what we're seeing now.

The other key thing is while the squads are very similar, O'Hare had his purple patch at the same time we went on a decent run. Perhaps these players really aren't good enough for more than a relegation scrap.

So O’Hare is the difference between top six and relegation?

I think the rationale here is getting more and more outlandish compared to the null hypothesis that Robins was still a decent manager who was handed a bag of shite by the recruitment team. What looked like Robins dropping off was more the players not being up to it. My worry now is we’ve got the crap players and a manager with no record of getting more than the sum of his parts.

Brighton Sky Blue · Wednesday at 9:03 PM

shmmeee said:
So O’Hare is the difference between top six and relegation?

I think the rationale here is getting more and more outlandish compared to the null hypothesis that Robins was still a decent manager who was handed a bag of shite by the recruitment team. What looked like Robins dropping off was more the players not being up to it. My worry now is we’ve got the crap players and a manager with no record of getting more than the sum of his parts.

The null hypothesis is pretty much my position to be clear. And I've said before what I think got us that purple patch of good results, both O'Hare producing his best football in his time here and the formation change which teams took time to work out.

shmmeee · Wednesday at 9:27 PM

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The null hypothesis is pretty much my position to be clear. And I've said before what I think got us that purple patch of good results, both O'Hare producing his best football in his time here and the formation change which teams took time to work out.

The assumption has to start that nothing has changed and Robins and Viveash were as effective in getting more for this lot last season as they were with other groups previously surely?

Brighton Sky Blue · Wednesday at 9:29 PM

shmmeee said:
The assumption has to start that nothing has changed and Robins and Viveash were as effective in getting more for this lot last season as they were with other groups previously surely?

Think we're getting lost in the reeds here

shmmeee · Wednesday at 9:37 PM

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Think we're getting lost in the reeds here

I dont. Or I like the reeds.

The fundamental difference question here is what’s the base level of this squad. If it’s a lot less than 9th, O’Hare arguments aside, last season was OK and this season wasn’t a disaster (especially if O’Hare is relevant).

And it matters for judging Lampard now. Is he getting the best from this lot?

Brighton Sky Blue · Wednesday at 11:32 PM

shmmeee said:
I dont. Or I like the reeds.

The fundamental difference question here is what’s the base level of this squad. If it’s a lot less than 9th, O’Hare arguments aside, last season was OK and this season wasn’t a disaster (especially if O’Hare is relevant).

And it matters for judging Lampard now. Is he getting the best from this lot?

The estimation of basically nobody was that this squad was on for a tough season, based on the previous season's finish and summer transfers. What everybody either missed or underestimated was the significance of removing the last remaining players with certain characteristics (not necessarily the players themselves).

So I think the base level of this squad as is, is a lot less than 9th and its fate rests in the January transfer business and Haji Wright's form. What we've seen in the few games Lampard's had tallies with what they were doing to/for Robins, i.e. throwing the manager under the bus at the drop of a hat.

SBT · 2024-12-26T09:18:41+0000

shmmeee said:
The season as a whole we finished 9th and got to a cup semi with what increasingly looks like a bunch of L1 players.

By the club’s own internal metrics a 9th place finish is a failure. The brief was to build a squad capable of finishing in the top 6 and funds were made available to do so, but it didn’t happen.

Grendel · 2024-12-26T09:28:28+0000

clint van damme said:
He's stated facts.
You may think that wasn't good enough, but that's what we achieved last season.
Or are you go and try and argue we didnt?

We achieved 7th one season and the manager was sacked the following season

TomRad85 · 2024-12-26T09:39:34+0000

SBT said:
By the club’s own internal metrics a 9th place finish is a failure. The brief was to build a squad capable of finishing in the top 6 and funds were made available to do so, but it didn’t happen.

Correct, then we pumped in significantly more funds in the summer and were clearly seeing movement backwards rather than forwards. Completely unacceptable and I can't think any club wouldn't have acted exactly the same.

skyblue025 · 2024-12-26T09:43:41+0000

I've said this before and the fact still remains, we have a mid table budget yet Doug expects play offs and talks of a "Top 6 Deck". It's bollocks and shows how much Robins over achieved year upon year. Lampard has got his work cut out to keep this squad, it's not a deck, overachieving.

Brighton Sky Blue · 2024-12-26T09:50:35+0000

skyblue025 said:
I've said this before and the fact still remains, we have a mid table budget yet Doug expects play offs and talks of a "Top 6 Deck". It's bollocks and shows how much Robins over achieved year upon year. Lampard has got his work cut out to keep this squad, it's not a deck, overachieving.

People with much more football knowledge than him thought it was a top 6 squad or thereabouts. They were all wrong for reasons which weren’t obvious at the time but are now.

Irish Sky Blue · 2024-12-26T09:57:04+0000

Grendel said:
There is only QPR who’ve conceded more goals at home.

Robins teams rarely looked so fallible until this season - it’s always been built on a defence and strong covering midfield

His old guard have all but gone. Most games have been dire and the only games we’ve played well in is when Wright was on his game. Something the new manager is having to deal with until he returns.

The post I replied too indicated that the level of the performance at Portsmouth was standard for the season, something that is clearly not true, it is by far the worst.

With regards to looking fallible under Robins, we recovered nicely last season after losing 4 on the trot including abject performances at Preston and Rochdale when most of the old guard were still here.

I think it was a hugely bad decision to sack Robins, you and many others will disagree. This debate is still going on and I’m not getting involved in it. I hope Lampard succeeds and that he is an inspired choice as manager. I just fail to see the need to rewrite history to downplay what Robins has done, even this season.

Cally Fedora · 2024-12-26T10:00:36+0000

We’re a mid table squad with a mid table budget. It rarely deviates far in terms of cash availability and league position. The odd outlier but in general it works that way. You have to keep pulling recruitment rabbits out of hats to buck the trend. Defensively we’ve done the opposite.

shmmeee · 2024-12-26T10:08:51+0000

SBT said:
By the club’s own internal metrics a 9th place finish is a failure. The brief was to build a squad capable of finishing in the top 6 and funds were made available to do so, but it didn’t happen.

I’m not sure what this has to do with anything.

shmmeee · 2024-12-26T10:11:10+0000

TomRad85 said:
Correct, then we pumped in significantly more funds in the summer and were clearly seeing movement backwards rather than forwards. Completely unacceptable and I can't think any club wouldn't have acted exactly the same.

And yet the man spending the money keeps his job. Clearly Doug didn’t sack robins cos the players were shit.

SBT · 2024-12-26T10:12:43+0000

shmmeee said:
I’m not sure what this has to do with anything.

It explains the reasoning to counter your argument that Robins was worth keeping in the job because he had the squad performing at a level beyond the sum of its parts.

shmmeee · 2024-12-26T10:15:00+0000

SBT said:
It explains the reasoning to counter your argument that Robins was worth keeping in the job because he had the squad performing at a level beyond the sum of its parts.

Does it?

So we sacked robins because he got more out of the players we gave him?

I really don’t know what point you guys are trying to make.

SBT · 2024-12-26T10:21:43+0000

shmmeee said:
Does it?

So we sacked robins because he got more out of the players we gave him?

I really don’t know what point you guys are trying to make.

Doug told Robins to get the team in the top 6 and gave him a load of transfer funds to do it. We finished 9th. He got sacked. It’s not much more complicated than that.

clint van damme · 2024-12-26T10:47:35+0000

TomRad85 said:
Correct, then we pumped in significantly more funds in the summer and were clearly seeing movement backwards rather than forwards. Completely unacceptable and I can't think any club wouldn't have acted exactly the same.

If you're going to judge it on spend, and I appreciate its quite a simplistic take, then we were 7th highest spenders.
We missed that by 2 places and 6 points.
That's not hugely off target.

King also stipulated he wanted a cup run, which he got.

Brighton Sky Blue · 2024-12-26T10:54:02+0000

SBT said:
Doug told Robins to get the team in the top 6 and gave him a load of transfer funds to do it. We finished 9th. He got sacked. It’s not much more complicated than that.

He wasn’t sacked at season end, he was sacked with the club hovering above the relegation zone and producing shite on the pitch.

Ring Of Steel · 2024-12-26T11:03:21+0000

shmmeee said:
Does it?

So we sacked robins because he got more out of the players we gave him?

I really don’t know what point you guys are trying to make.

Since they got what they wanted & Robins was sacked things have not improved one iota. Therefore because there is nothing positive they can point to in order to say it was the right move, they make out Robins was actually a failure as a manager.

clint van damme · 2024-12-26T11:03:52+0000

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He wasn’t sacked at season end, he was sacked with the club hovering above the relegation zone and producing shite on the pitch.

So why are so many people trying to paint last season as a disaster?
We definitely hoped for better but it wasn't a disaster.

Ring Of Steel · 2024-12-26T11:09:15+0000

clint van damme said:
So why are so many people trying to paint last season as a disaster?
We definitely hoped for better but it wasn't a disaster.

I like the way that 9th doesn’t apparently count because we lost form in the last portion of the season.

“The league table doesn’t lie so Robins had to go”, but then “9th doesn’t count because we had bad runs of form”

TomRad85 · 2024-12-26T11:10:03+0000

clint van damme said:
So why are so many people trying to paint last season as a disaster?
We definitely hoped for better but it wasn't a disaster.

It wasn't I agree. I think the cup masked what for long periods was really poor form in the league, but it was fun.
However I don't really see any excuses for the poor start this season, we should have been ready to go.

Brighton Sky Blue · 2024-12-26T11:11:08+0000

clint van damme said:
So why are so many people trying to paint last season as a disaster?
We definitely hoped for better but it wasn't a disaster.

I’m not trying to paint it as a disaster. Though the story of the season was we were poor for two thirds of it and excellent in the middle. Which was largely down to formation change and COH hitting form.

There is also ‘these players finished 9th’. Well, this squad didn’t and they look very poor without a Wright or O’Hare to bail them out.

SBT · 2024-12-26T11:22:31+0000

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He wasn’t sacked at season end, he was sacked with the club hovering above the relegation zone and producing shite on the pitch.

Well yeah. I was trying to keep it simple for someone who was struggling to get it.

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