What would happen if? (15 Viewers)

Deleted member 5849 said:

...and so we go back to the circular Otium Entertainment Group argument.

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But clubs have new owners and stuff all of the time, I don't support a limited company or anything like that.

I'd go by the badge on the kit, the team name etc.

Nick said:

I'd go by the badge on the kit, the team name etc.

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So you'd be quite happy with the phoenix club.

This is the same sodding argument you're making that's been done to death, but you're missing the fact (again) that Otium aren't the owners of CCFC, they *are* CCFC.

But what's the point of doing this for yet another trip round the circle line?

oldskyblue58 said:

liquidation = extinction, it is not a path to something else it is an end

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I understand you loose your history as you are a different concern.
But were Rangers not liquidated ?
Seem to be just back as before,

Deleted member 5849 said:

So you'd be quite happy with the phoenix club.

This is the same sodding argument you're making that's been done to death, but you're missing the fact (again) that Otium aren't the owners of CCFC, they *are* CCFC.

But what's the point of doing this for yet another trip round the circle line?

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No, because the badge on the Phoenix Club's kit, the name in the league, the history and the memories wouldn't be CCFC.

Otium is the limited company behind it all, I didn't support the limited company before it either.

Deleted member 5849 said:

So then, much as Firoentina still exist, Napoli still exist, Wimbledon still exist... we can still exist.

Nuneaton go through chameleon-like shifts every few years. They've been Town, borough, Town. Don't be surprised if they end up Borough soon enough... in much the same way as VS Rugby have borrowed an old club's name lately, or Bradford Park Avenue. The latter two are far more of a sleight of hand, FWIW, as neither has a direct link with the original club (bar fans that crossed over) and weren't original start-ups. Newport County are back in the league, having reclaimed their name, their place in the town, their place in the right country(!) It wasn't easy for them, but it happened.

Coventry City can still exist, even if it has to be known, officially, as Coventry City Care in the Community. It's still Coventry City.

Much as Otium Entertainment Group is Coventry City.

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And Hereford is still the same club that Ronnie Radford played for, even though its not.

Liquid Gold said:

Liquidation would mean the end of ccfc, any new club would be just that, new, no Jimmy Hill, no 87, no Tommy Hutch or Dublin and Huckerby. When I sing city 'till I die I mean it, if this club is liquidated then that would be it for me, I'd go and watch my local team occasionally and suspect many others are the same. I don't get why anybody could ever wish for the death of something so close to their heart.

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Exactly this ^^

I live in the Peak District now (having lived in Manchester for many years before that) but have still managed to get to an average of 10 home games and at least 5 away games every season. Since moving to the sticks I watch my Village team play in the Hope Valley League as well as Glossop North End every now and then who are rapidly climbing their way up the non-league ladder. If, perish the thought, City did fold completely I would carry on watching them but I wouldn't be a fan and i certainly would not be following any rebooted imitation of CCFC or switching allegiance to any other league team.

What did they invest ......

Well it looks like the following (will keep as simple as I can)

between 2008 and 31/05/2012 if you take the accounts at face value it looks like from the accounts that investment was £28,554,706 . However in 2008 the initial loans were not cash but the off balance sheet assets/liabilities of CCFC H Group acquired at an agreed value and reintroduced in to SBS&L - that amounted to £9972090 plus physical cash of £560k.

They never paid out 10m in the first place only £560k, what they did was assume responsibility for net liabilities that had been discounted to an agreed figure. These were liabilities that the club settled out any way via trading or it got written off later (eg the 6m payment on promotion to premiership) They called all that a loan to SBS&L (the initial "investment") the double entry to which was the asset of Goodwill. Transactions on paper only, the goodwill was subsequently written off in the SBS&L accounts as an accumulated loss of the SBS&L group. So potentially SISU investors put in a maximum £18m cash up until 2012. This cash coming in assumes that interest or other costs were not rolled up into loans. There is no evidence in the accounts of such other costs, it isn't clear if interest not paid out was converted to loans. The first amount put in was £560k. All clever accounting and above board

Doing it that way enabled the huge losses of CCFCH to be retained and later converted in to preference shares (2014). But that conversion of losses didn't cost SISU/ARVO or its investors a penny. The loan still stands at 28.554m and hasn't moved since 2012

Around that time the original funds closed (2010-2011) and the investment became Sconset's. My guess is that what Sconset was credited with paying the investors was nothing like £18m, I would guess it was a small fraction of that. The original investors took the hit on a failed investment. So whilst it may be the loan that showing in SBS&L accounts says 28m the actual cost to Sconset sitting in its books could well have been much less - perhaps as little £2m or lower. So Sconset cost of investment say for sake of argument £2m. Yes I know, supposition and no I cant prove it.

ARVO. From the cash flow statements between 2011 and 2014 ARVO made loans of around £16m of which some was repaid or converted in to preference shares leaving £7.737m outstanding

So they are in the hole for probably a total £10m and damaged reputation with some investors

Personally I wouldn't give them a penny up front there are other ways round it

£10m is the figure I believe is worth targeting but will require further investment funds for the club to move forward and get a decent side on the pitch! The issue is why would the current owners not look at an approach from interested parties and where are any interested parties? Who or what are they waiting for?

No ones going to pay £10m for us, we have no assets and little money making revenues beyond ticketing and football league grants.

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Liquid Gold said:

We know this is a shit situation and we all desperately want sisu gone BUT not at the expense of ccfc. It wouldn't be us dropping 5/6 leagues it would be us not existing and some new club claiming the same identity as us being so many leagues down. The club that won the cup in 87 would no longer exist, not in any sense.

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I dont want liquidation, it would be a long way back - but this new club crap is rubbish.

The same city and fans will go to watch the new club. That's the club, not the badge, the history is ours and not SISU's or anyone else's. The 87 cup win is ours.

Just like when I see AFC Wimbledon I think of THEIR 88 cup win.