Who owns CCFC? In Telegraph today. (1 Viewer)

[Ccfc1979]

If you're confused and worried about who ultimately owns CCFC, Tim Fisher explains all exclusively in Telegraph today. 5 boards, 5 companies, no named investors, no day to day SISU management, cash from pension funds. All as clear as mud!! Tomorrow, a 168 page account of where the money's gone, no doubt. Good luck, Hoff.

 

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[Paxman II]

...just reading through Fisher's explanation made me laugh.

 

[Sub]

there was an explanation in there ??? fooked if i could see it !!!!:thinking about::thinking about::thinking about:

 

[chiefdave]

doesn't really tell us anything. the one interesting thing is that he clearly states that the club is ultimately owned by SISU

for the avoidance of doubt it is SISU Capital Limited that ultimately controls Coventry City.

SISU Capital Ltd The ultimate owner of the club.

this does seem a little at odds with the view held on here by people who know far more about these things than me who have often reminded us that SISU don't own the club. Someone must be wrong and to be frank I don't trust much that club says these days!

 

[PhilWasn'tBabb]

doesn't really tell us anything. the one interesting thing is that he clearly states that the club is ultimately owned by SISU

this does seem a little at odds with the view held on here by people who know far more about these things than me who have often reminded us that SISU don't own the club. Someone must be wrong and to be frank I don't trust much that club says these days!

I was under the impression that any one person that owns more than a 10% stake in a football club has to be named as part of public record (for want of a better way of putting it)

So that a fit and proper test can be done - not that there worth the paper there written on..

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

At no point is Leonard Brody mentioned. I thought he owned shares but not via SISU?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was under the impression that any one person that owns more than a 10% stake in a football club has to be named as part of public record (for want of a better way of putting it)

So that a fit and proper test can be done - not that there worth the paper there written on..

That's the point-when the government went to the FL and tried to get owner or stakeholder identities, they were told that as none of the investors had more than a 10% stake, they couldn't release names. This kind of suggests that the SISU shares are distributed between lots of firms in small amounts each, which must make negotiating with each and every shareholder a complete pain in the backside.

 

[wingy]

THe new rules on transparency ,suggested by the select committee come into force next month ,meaning the league /FA have to start implementing recommendations from that committee or the government will legislate to enforce,along with several other matters ,be nice to see if they have any teeth.

 

[Godiva]

doesn't really tell us anything. the one interesting thing is that he clearly states that the club is ultimately owned by SISU

for the avoidance of doubt it is SISU Capital Limited that ultimately controls Coventry City.

SISU Capital LtdThe ultimate owner of the club.

this does seem a little at odds with the view held on here by people who know far more about these things than me who have often reminded us that SISU don't own the club. Someone must be wrong and to be frank I don't trust much that club says these days!

The first quote is taken directly from Tim Fisher and is correct. The second is a journalists poor attempt of stiputating points at the end of the article ... showing he did not understand the very essence of what Tim Fisher explained.

As it has been stated on this forum many times: Sisu are merely managing the funds who owns the club.

 

[TheRoyalScam]

The first quote is taken directly from Tim Fisher and is correct. The second is a journalists poor attempt of stiputating points at the end of the article ... showing he did not understand the very essence of what Tim Fisher explained.

As it has been stated on this forum many times: Sisu are merely managing the funds who owns the club.

Agree with that, Godiva. Surprised to see that the journalist is Alan Poole - he should really know better! Better to say that as long as SISU ultimately manage the 'investments/funds' from our 'owners', we'll never know who really owns CCFC.

 

[Godiva]

Better to say that as long as SISU ultimately manage the 'investments/funds' from our 'owners', we'll never know who really owns CCFC.

But does it really matter?
I think what upsets most people is the word 'hedge fund' and think 'Gordon Gekko' and 'it's the essence of pure evil'. When in fact most capital in hedge funds comes from ordinary peoples pension funds.
The pension funds knows that 'hedge fund' in the public mind is associated with 'evil business' and therefor insists on privacy and confidentiality.

 

[TheParsonsHose]

THe new rules on transparency ,suggested by the select committee come into force next month ,meaning the league /FA have to start implementing recommendations from that committee or the government will legislate to enforce,along with several other matters ,be nice to see if they have any teeth.

Thought this applied only if they own x%....?

 

[TheParsonsHose]

Who owns CCFC now is not relevent any more to me, its more who will own us next that matters.

 

[WillieStanley]

It's the old trick of telling people what they know in a slightly different way in order to get a more positive take on it. It clearly hasn't worked.

 

[procdoc]

he's a wanker like the rest of them that Fisher

 

[oldskyblue58]

I think TF has at least made an effort to explain the structure of the club. Something that no one else at the club since 2007 has bothered to do. It is pretty much as we thought but at least he has spelt it out which means what we thought was/is correct. It changes our understanding not a lot.

He didnt have to say anything so I think he deserves some credit. We cannot have it both ways - he gets slaughtered if he doesnt say then gets slaughtered by some (the same people?) if he does.

If he puts out information like this then he invites questionning, so it will be interesting to see if dialogue continues or whether these are statements take it or leave it

It will be more interesting to see tomorrows article and just how far TF goes with this campaign of "transparency".

And I agree the reporter still didnt grasp what he was being told. SISU Capital control not own the club, they do that on behalf of and in the best interests of the owners (investors in their funds)

 

[LastGarrison]

Educate the ignorant but why is there a rule that if any one person owns under 10% they have the right to anonymity?

 

[Jack Griffin]

A couple of things stick out for me...

1) If SISU were leaving anytime soon, why on earth would they bother with this article. So it makes me think they will have some time left at the club.
2) Leonard Brody was not mentioned at all, but the last information (from Crowsnest I think) was that he owned a smallish percentage of shares in SBS&L and Sconset held the rest. Has he sold up?
3) Fisher said that "for the most part SISU’s investors are institutional investors such as major pension funds". In doing so he was very careful to steer people away from thinking about wealthy individuals as investors in these funds, I am sure some high profile individuals wouldn't want their assocition with hedge funds made public, not that I have any information that is the case, but I'd bloody well like to know!
4) One key phrase was "High levels of confidentiality exist between SISU and its investors", well funnily enough the identities of these investors is EXACTLY what the fans want & deserve to know, otherwise how can we judge what their true intentions are.
5) Am I right in thinking that the 300 shareholders with B class shares don't have a vote, they have pieces of paper & get a annual report and nothing much if anything else?
6) The ownership of less than 10% is a damned loophole for publicity shy investors to avoid being found out, they ougt to force them to declare the LARGEST holdings, irrespective of % held.

 

[thorn in my side]

At least we have some communication and attempts at transparency.

It makes interesting reading.

I am looking forward to the article tomorrow regarding the £30M investment - where has it all gone?

We asked for answers and we are getting information. I for one, welcome the information. It is a start.

Mr Fisher 6 out of 10. Must try harder.

 

[thorn in my side]

A couple of things stick out for me...

1) If SISU were leaving anytime soon, why on earth would they bother with this article. So it makes me think they will have some time left at the club.
I agree. I think they are here to stay in the absence of a credible alternative
2) Leonard Brody was not mentioned at all, but the last information (from Crowsnest I think) was that he owned a smallish percentage of shares in SBS&L and Sconset held the rest. Has he sold up?
Would be good if this was clarified
3) Fisher said that "for the most part SISU’s investors are institutional investors such as major pension funds". In doing so he was very careful to steer people away from thinking about wealthy individuals as investors in these funds, I am sure some high profile individuals wouldn't want their assocition with hedge funds made public, not that I have any information that is the case, but I'd bloody well like to know!
[B]I agree but I understand the discrete nature of investment./B]
4) One key phrase was "High levels of confidentiality exist between SISU and its investors", well funnily enough the identities of these investors is EXACTLY what the fans want & deserve to know, otherwise how can we judge what their true intentions are.
I agree. However we do not know the identity of the Hoffman investors or their intentions etc
5) Am I right in thinking that the 300 shareholders with B class shares don't have a vote, they have pieces of paper & get a annual report and nothing much if anything else?
Not sure. Would have to see the Articles
6) The ownership of less than 10% is a damned loophole for publicity shy investors to avoid being found out, they ougt to force them to declare the LARGEST holdings, irrespective of % held.

It is what it is.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I want to know who Hoffs backers are too & for the same reasons!

They're just as much a mystery to the fans, only a select few have any knowledge of their identites (cue Batman Theme).

 

[shmmeee]

Am I the only one wishing they'd drawn a diagram?

To be honest I don't really care about the ownership structure of the club. The finances I find very interesting however.

I hope tomorrow's article not only explains the outstanding debt to SISU and the current financial situation, but also the contingency plan for when we go down. THAT is the part that not only has been missing, but that our local journalists keep forgetting to ask.

The best I've heard is people saying "Well, we'd hope we don't go down" but surely that's can't be the plan?? What if we do?

 

[crowsnest]

Am I the only one wishing they'd drawn a diagram?

To be honest I don't really care about the ownership structure of the club. The finances I find very interesting however.

I hope tomorrow's article not only explains the outstanding debt to SISU and the current financial situation, but also the contingency plan for when we go down. THAT is the part that not only has been missing, but that our local journalists keep forgetting to ask.

The best I've heard is people saying "Well, we'd hope we don't go down" but surely that's can't be the plan?? What if we do?

There's a diagram in the paper. Here goes.

Sisu capital
|
Sconset capital
|
Sky blue sports and leisure
|
Otium entertainment group
|
Ccfc holdings
|
Ccfc ltd

 

[rocksocks]

In the article Tim Fisher says:

"Given the changes of recent months, one of my main priorities at this time is to identify a locally-based Chairman and Managing Director to lead at this important stage."

Could this be Gary Hoffman and Joe Elliott? Could you see this happening as a compromise between a) SISU doing nothing and b) a complete Hoffman takeover?


PS. Apologies if this has already been discussed. But I just wondered!

 

[Jack Griffin]

There's a diagram in the paper. Here goes.

Sisu capital
|
Sconset capital
|
Sky blue sports and leisure
|
Otium entertainment group
|
Ccfc holdings
|
Ccfc ltd

That diagram is wrong & over simplfied. Where's Brody for one and it omits SISU investors, hey they are the ones that put up the money!

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just a couple more points

The article seems to imply that though a group the companies are to some degree autonomous. Understand to a degree but the fact that the directorships overlap (ie a director is a director of holding company and subsidiary) means there is a continuance of control. That also applies to Onye who is a partner in the controlling entity and a director of the Holding company - it beggars belief that SISU are not in a position to influence decisions at the club from day one

Also SISU say that they dont get involved, they let the business operate. Well what is the one thing everyone agrees that the club have not got more than anything else ? - money......... who controls that ? SISU - as they say they have "invested" (I prefer lent) the club millions on their terms, when they choose to, and for specific reason.

The theory is fine TF but we both know that in practice the reality is somewhat different dont we

 

[Sub]

wait till you read where the 30 million has gone and the transfer info in the paper:facepalm::facepalm: :thinking about::thinking about:

 

[crowsnest]

That diagram is wrong & over simplfied. Where's Brody for one and it omits SISU investors, hey they are the ones that put up the money!

The one in the paper explains more - I just did a quick version.

The sisu investors (pension funds) are sconset capital.

Has Brody sold his shares?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Had a quick scan this morning will read properly later Sub (its a really busy time here due to self assessment deadline 31/01 )

It did raise a few immediate questions - how does 9m + 2m + 16m add up to well over £30m for example .... or didnt take "dividends or capital repayments" but did they take interest ? etc etc

 

[crowsnest]

Where has all the money gone

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...-where-has-all-the-money-gone-92746-30209621/

 

[Sub]

Had a quick scan this morning will read properly later Sub (its a really busy time here due to self assessment deadline 31/01 )

It did raise a few immediate questions - how does 9m + 2m + 16m add up to well over £30m for example .... or didnt take "dividends or capital repayments" but did they take interest ? etc etc

more questions than answers as usual :thinking about::thinking about::thinking about::thinking about:

 

[Godiva]

Had a quick scan this morning will read properly later Sub (its a really busy time here due to self assessment deadline 31/01 )

It did raise a few immediate questions - how does 9m + 2m + 16m add up to well over £30m for example .... or didnt take "dividends or capital repayments" but did they take interest ? etc etc

9m+2m+16m= 27m ... add to that the sale of Prozone.

Interests ... you have with you own eyes not found evindence they are charging interest up till the latest accounts. Why would they change policy when there's no real shift of control or ownership?

 

[oldskyblue58]

9m+2m+16m= 27m ... add to that the sale of Prozone.

Interests ... you have with you own eyes not found evindence they are charging interest up till the latest accounts. Why would they change policy when there's no real shift of control or ownership?

Just asking the question - and there is no evidence as yet as to whether they have or not. They didnt up till 31/05/10 - 20 months ago you know as well as i do things change in business day to day

Prozone was an asset owned by SBSL Group which is the company SISU actually invested in so the sale is not SISU investing more money

 

[Godiva]

Prozone was an asset owned by SBSL Group which is the company SISU actually invested in so the sale is not SISU investing more money

I know I'm thick and a slow learner, but where do I get it wrong?
Sisu/Ranson bring money and Prozone to the club. They use the money, then sell Prozone and use that money too.
Isn't it fair to include Prozone as part of their investment?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Doesnt form part of the loan that SISU investors made. That loan is the SISU investment.