Who Votes Sell the stadium to SISU (4 Viewers)

covboy1987 said:

Nobody agrees or likes what's happening but there is not a knight in shining Armour going to solve this problem - We have potentially our club playing 5 years away from our city, Financial fair play rules going to kick in shortly which on the face of it will break even this young team up as our income against wages props a lower league side up at best
Is it the worst thing in the world to sell the stadium to SISU who obviously are not everyone's cup of tea but cannily they were the knights in shining Armour 8 years ago when they took the reins they have shown quite ruthless resolve in turning the club upside down and sorting it out and still putting a team on the field to compete in this league at wages which if playing at the Ricoh and owned would make the club profitable and sale-able which is probably their future aim as that is what they do for a living
Would they be any worse than all the owners previously who somehow managed to give up our beloved Highfield road for peanuts and showered us with debt that SISU took on as there was nobody else
I do not attend Northampton for the sole reason that out of principal i am not watching home games in someone else's town but is it time that everyone got behind the idea of SISU buying the stadium under some type of agreement drawn up on a sale that somehow ensures the clubs future security and clauses that keep the team playing in our City
Could 'Sell to SISU' be the new phrase that would give us all a glimmer of hope that we have been looking for

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After reading that in the telegraph today, where otium admit that the stadium would be owned by a seperate company - not a chance.

bigfatronssba said:

After reading that in the telegraph today, where otium admit that the stadium would be owned by a seperate company - not a chance.

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That bit in itself shouldn't be what stops it (ask OSB ).

I'd want to know why it must be freehold as opposed to long lease and £1 rent a year. If there's a valid reason for that I'd want certain caveats put into any deal...

But I certainly wouldn't be ruling out a deal.

Depends on the terms it is sold on and clauses around its future use, sale etc.,

Sell it for what it is worth.
I don't care who owns it, who rents it back, if they pay the right price for a 'stadium' they will do the right thing and run it as a stadium.

The problem comes if you give it away. It becomes more beneficial then just to knock it down and build houses.

What is it worth if it's not being used?

This is a pointless thread.... ACL wont sell 100% fact. They would of done this by now if so. They just don't like SISU and too much has now happened to sell to them. So whether fans want this or not its irrelevant as it wont happen.

Well the offer from Sisu is that they are paid £9m for the Ricoh.

So I'm going to vote no.

Kingokings204 said:

This is a pointless thread.... ACL wont sell 100% fact. They would of done this by now if so. They just don't like SISU and too much has now happened to sell to them. So whether fans want this or not its irrelevant as it wont happen.

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ACL don't own the stadium to sell it CCC do. And they've said they'll listen to sensible offers.

They wont listen to any sensible offers from sisu. Its over. SISU could offer 50 mil and ACL/CCC will reject it. Its not going to happen. We play at sixfields just to remind anyone who doubts my comments.

Kingokings204 said:

This is a pointless thread.... ACL wont sell 100% fact. They would of done this by now if so. They just don't like SISU and too much has now happened to sell to them. So whether fans want this or not its irrelevant as it wont happen.

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I just don't understand why ACL won't sell to SISU.....other than they want it for less than the loans on it and also they are not trusted by the vast majority.

I have said the same all along. Stuck record here we go again.

When Timothy was asked who would own this new stadium they are supposedly building he replied he didn't know. This means to me not our club. So to me it means our club wouldn't own the Ricoh. It would be owned by some part of SISU. So if we got liquidated the stadium would stay with wherever they put it as the debts are in the name of SISU or whatever they call it.

Now if they paid a decent price for it I would reconsider. If it could be made legally secure that the ground stayed for the use of a football club in Coventry I would reconsider. Do they want the freehold just to run up debt against?

I don't trust them. So the answer would have to be no unless there was serious negotiations and not just at Joys terms.

Kingokings204 said:

They wont listen to any sensible offers from sisu. Its over. SISU could offer 50 mil and ACL/CCC will reject it. Its not going to happen. We play at sixfields just to remind anyone who doubts my comments.

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Haha bullshit. Sensible offer from Joy? She has admitted to offering a price and was take it or leave it. Was a poor offer. ACL/CCC left it.

I want to see the club back in Coventry, and the stadium and Club under the same ownership.

I would prefer that not to be under SISU, but if the stadium was sold with the legal premise it must be used for the club, and the club recieves the income from it then I would be prepared to see that happen.

This is the problem, they haven't had serious discussions and wont by now so all this ricoh returning is all pie in the sky just as much as a new stadium is. where this leaves the football team I cringe to think. This can only get worse from here folks. Liquidation was a black day on the 2nd august but that's nothing to 3 years time. trust me.

Kingokings204 said:

They wont listen to any sensible offers from sisu. Its over. SISU could offer 50 mil and ACL/CCC will reject it. Its not going to happen. We play at sixfields just to remind anyone who doubts my comments.

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Guesswork ?

it wont happen though?

Not guess work, judge things on face value, what was all the liquidation and all this shit about just to sell the ricoh to them at a cheapish price just months later? get real people.

not a cat in hells chance but i'm not a cov tax payer so have no say

Astute............yes it was a poor offer from the take it or leave from JS that ACL/CCC left but then why are we still talking about it then?

The sale of the Arena is avenue that should be explored, if it is to SISU then so be it but negotiations have to be fair.

RoboCCFC90 said:

The sale of the Arena is avenue that should be explored, if it is to SISU then so be it but negotiations have to be fair.

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I don't think SISU does "fair"?

Kingokings204 said:

Astute............yes it was a poor offer from the take it or leave from JS that ACL/CCC left but then why are we still talking about it then?

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Because it's the only one they've made!!

JS is refusing to meet with the council. The council are happy to meet and say they would sell as long as they get a fair price. The sticking point here is Sisu don't want to offer a fair price. Sorry, but I thought all this was fairly obvious and well known.

Unless you want Sisu to have the Ricoh at any cost (including the taxpayers paying £9m) then it's not CCC you have an issue with, it's Sisu!

I can't understand why anyone would want sisu to own the Ricoh.

Remember it would be sisu that owns it not ccfc.

No reason at all why SISU shouldnt be able to offer to buy the Freehold at market value ...... of course the sticking point is not what SISU's valuers put the value at but the reasonable expectations of value of the seller. SISU do not meet those expectations then it doesnt matter what value CBRE put on it.

So what is the value of the Freehold? All this talk of brownfield sites etc, knocking down for houses etc is irrelevant. The possible sale would be between a body owning a stadium and an entity requiring a stadium. It would be sold, if at all, on existing use.

What did the council put in to the project? £10m original stake, sale of the Tesco site £59m plus the proceeds of the lease premium paid by ACL £21m (which paid off the prudential borrowing)= £90m. which ever way you read it that was all funds due to the council and all funds attributed to the project build. It is reasonable to think even given the effect on the local economy of the football club not being here that the value to the council of the freehold stadium and land is more than the headline £7m isnt it? (btw thats not saying it is valued at £90m either)

The article says CBRE valued ACL last year. Not sure if that was a report to ACL for worth or to Yorkshire Bank for security purposes. Two very different valuations. One thing it isnt though it seems to me is a valuation of the freehold of the Ricoh. It would seem to me that the £7m to £9m figure might well be the value of the leasehold interest for ACL for the bank in distressed circumstances a year ago. Things have changed significantly since then. The report would have included the fact and effect of a non paying football tenant and quite likely valued that part as £nil because it was high risk with the likelyhood of the club not paying. So the value of the club rent going would not depress values further currently. The report would not have included the refinancing with a much less volatile and more stable lender either or the restructuring that has gone on and other factors

Question - the council must sell....... could you not say in reasonable balance SISU must sell? Different argument I know but ....

In this case getting hold of the freehold does not get the buyer, any buyer, access to any income at all. Not only that but as it stands it wouldnt actually give CCFC the right to play there

So once they have the freehold then there is the leasehold interest to think about. Effectively 40 years still left on the ACL lease but under the landlord & tenant Act the tenant is entitled to at least an extra 7 years on top of that. That has value to ACL, it might not have value to say SISU but thats a different argument, is that the value of the profits foregone or simply the balance of the lease left that cost £21m.

The charity share was valued at £4m apparently June 2012. It might be right but the deal never proceeded. But that was for 50% and no control of ACL. Because of the way share valuations work it is not going to be a simple matter of saying the value of 100% is twice 50% it doesnt work that way. For example 51% is worth considerably more than 50% because it gives you simple control of the company. So the supposed calculation is that the Ricoh is worth £7m to £9m and twice the offer last year £8m sits in the middle of the range. Convenient and most likely incorrect.

So far thats buying the freehold off the council, then buying the interest in part or all of ACL

Next thing is that SISU have clearly stated in the past the deal was to bring in AEG as stadium operator. The Stadium is currently operated by IEC Experience ltd which jointly owned by ACL 77% and Compass 23%. Compass paid £4m for its shares in IEC plus it has a 15 year contract to operate the event, conference, hospitality etc at the Ricoh. If a buyer say SISU wanted new operators, or simply 100% of the income then they need to buy out Compass shares and their contract which has 13+ years left on it.

Is it worth £50m to 125m to the area who knows but I suspect that valuation is based on success of the team especially in Swanseas case...... is a L1 team worth that to the area at this moment? It also assumes that there is no alternative income brought in. Both Swansea and Leeds are very much football stadiums ..... the Ricoh isnt just a football stadium

Not a comment on anyone or taking sides but these are simply some of the obstacles to any possible sale to any party including SISU.

So the headline of could it be bought for £7m is I think misleading. Les Reid is quite correct it does require a willing seller and a willing buyer. Given the apparent importance to own the site what are SISU prepared to offer? Is that anywhere close to CCC perception of value? Is there a need for CCC to sell their interests? (thats need from their perspective not the fans). Are minds at CCC and Charity open to the possibility? Are SISU, CCC, Charity prepared to compromise to do a deal? does it suit them to do that ?

Normal situation is that a sale is done when the buyer gets close to the sellers expectation of value .......... assuming it is not a forced sale and this isnt

So to summarise in order to get 100% of the site in the way SISU seem to want
- willing seller willing buyer
- buy freehold
- settle out/acquire control of ACL or remove
- Settle out/acquire Compass shares in IEC
- Settle out/ acquire Compass contract with IEC
- Bring in stadium operator

all for £7m?

After reading that CCFC(The football club) will NOT own the Ricoh/New Stadium under SISU control, then my answer is definately NO SALE TO SISU!

whatever the situation is and everyone is making good points but the main point here is it WONT happen so why are we wasting time talking about sisu owning the ricoh? its beyond me

OSB. Could you send your post to the CET please, to at least encourage them to offer a more balanced view than reported in the article. Not saying that they are suporting any particular agenda; just that they haven't considered the bigger picture of how all of this knits together. Is it worth contacted Les REid directly perahps?

Bottom line is the club should own the stadium.

To expand on that point bootom line it should own the stadium but wont under sisu 100% certain.

Otis said:

Bottom line is the club should own the stadium.

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bottom line is business practice > CCFC

proper fan.

Kingokings204 said:

They wont listen to any sensible offers from sisu. Its over. SISU could offer 50 mil and ACL/CCC will reject it. Its not going to happen.

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Do you have some inside information regarding this?

Like all these YES or NO answers for a complex situation, it is a case of "it depends". Why not sell IF the caveats to safe guard the club/stadium for the future are in place. If not, then why bother to sell.

As has been mentioned before, they don't actually need to own the Ricoh, but need access to the revenue streams. They are insisting on the ownership as it has a value against which they can fund their businesses (not CCFC!). They have no interest in the football club per se.

bigfatronssba said:

After reading that in the telegraph today, where otium admit that the stadium would be owned by a seperate company - not a chance.

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I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon as such, and suggest that this proves that another company will own the stadium and we wont get any benefits but it does raise a few questions which at present nobody really knows the answer to!

So if they buy the Ricoh (or build a new stadium) how will it work? Another company will own it - but will it be the same situation we were in, where the company owning the stadium get all the benefits and CCFC don't? Or will it be a case of another layer to the complex company structure, and it is just simply a case of N COMPANY owns the freehold, but CCFC HOLDINGS get all revenue and only pay £1 rent a year? I don't know. Personal opinion is we are not going to be any better off than we were before (if not worse due to the reduction in fanbase from taking the club out of the city for 5 years - if a new stadium is built). We are not the investors JS wants to impress.

It's such a shame that the club couldn't have owned it lock stock from day one.
Income from Hotel, conferencing, casino, concerts plus the brand connected with the club. It would've been a base for a sustainable premier league club.

Instead we've ended up with this shitfest. A can't see a deal ever being done. There's just not the will from the people of Coventry for it to happen, especially while sisu are running the club. Coventry tax payers will probably end up subsidising the place

Just read OSB's post ......... It just proves how complex it all is! Everything needs to be considered though