Why Sisu, why? (1 Viewer)

Sky Blue Sheepy · Jul 21, 2012

SISU seem to have realised the mistake and the incompetant board seemed to have gone/shut up.
The players may all be frees - but they still need paying. As it stands, they're doing some great business atm. In league one and even the Championship, you can get free players who will do a good job - like I feel most of our signings can.
I think credit again must go to Thorn and his scouting team though - they've found seemingly good players for no transfer fee. So far that's pleased me and SISU.

As for the original post - of course fans have shut up now we're bringing players in! That's what we needed. I'm angry it's taken relegation to do this, but if you criticise people for fuck ups, some credit must be given for what's being done to rectify it.

SBS · Jul 21, 2012

In regards to the original post, I'd have to disagree with this being the best squad we've had in 5 years. What it does show though is how a few signings can change the mindset of fans. If we'd signed a few players on frees last summer as fans we might have gone into the season with a positive frame of mind, as opposed to the confusion and anger following the King saga and one way exit for players.

The way I think SISU are trying to go about it is that if we are promoted this season, we are back to where we started, but with a team on a fraction of the wage bill. Obviously if we do go up, we'll need to improve, but the younger players like Thomas, Clarke, Hussey etc will all have another season under their belts and hopefully be established 1st team players. It would be nice to see us spend a bit of cash for some quality in the final third, but I've heard from a Derby supporting friend that the lad we've got from them has good potential and should score a few.

My only real disappointment from this summer is the sale of Bigirimana. In my opinion Keogh and Cranie were always going to go, but I didn't really see Bigi leaving. Obviously it's a great move for him personally and I'd love to see him do well in what is a good Newcastle team, but you see players like Oxlade-Chamberlain leaving Southampton last season for £12m and I'm afraid that in three or four seasons, Bigi will be worth that sort of money.

Otis · Jul 21, 2012

thechase said:
I disagree i feel there was every need. Im sick of reading constant comments demonstrating little knowledge of how finances work. If you choose not to accept my comment fine but i dont regret saying it as i beleive its true.

Stop being so condescending.

I know how finances work and have always supported the fact that we have to try and balance the books and I have always been pro selling our best players when it has been needed.

This needs to be balanced however against the cost involved with relegation.

You cut your cloth yes, but you don't completely cut the cloth away so there's hardly any material left underneath.

Godiva · Jul 21, 2012

What happens now is a result of sisu's work since they took over control from Ranson, Hoffaman and Elliott a year and a half ago.
Turn-arounds like ours takes time especially in football where players are on long contracts so not easy to get in or get rid off. With only two transfer windows a year it's not possible to make a total reshuffle in a flash.

Everything (well with a few spectacular exceptions like KD) that made people angry last season was necessary to stabilize the club and get us to this point where we can actually start to see a future. There's still work to be done like bringing down the rent to a realistic level, but as the business model starts to look sustainable, all off-field abstractions will fade away.

PUSB!

Otis · Jul 21, 2012

Unless we get relegated again.

Godiva · Jul 21, 2012

Otis said:
You cut your cloth yes, but you don't completely cut the cloth away so there's hardly any material left underneath.

You don't treat gangrene with a bandage - you amputate or the patience will die.

wingy · Jul 21, 2012

Otis said:
Stop being so condescending.

I know how finances work and have always supported the fact that we have to try and balance the books and I have always been pro selling our best players when it has been needed.

This needs to be balanced however against the cost involved with relegation.

You cut your cloth yes, but you don't completely cut the cloth away so there's hardly any material left underneath.

The reality being there is no cost to Sisu through relegation,only perceptions of the club from the fans and wider football world.It has suited their model and the Cynic in me wonders if we got here by design .All of us numpties that have no idea of how business operates or the wider world of finance need to button it ,I mean its obvious to no-one that it was impossible to implement the expenditure cuts in realtime while remaining competetive .Only the shock treatment of relegation could deliver the level required to balance the books along with the sale of 4 and possibly 5 players over one season.Hell why would anyone complain about that happening,guess its becuase we're all unrealistic like the beautiful game itself.

Godiva · Jul 21, 2012

wingy said:
The reality being there is no cost to Sisu through relegation,only perceptions of the club from the fans and wider football world.It has suited their model and the Cynic in me wonders if we got here by design .All of us numpties that have no idea of how business operates or the wider world of finance need to button it ,I mean its obvious to no-one that it was impossible to implement the expenditure cuts in realtime while remaining competetive .Only the shock treatment of relegation could deliver the level required to balance the books along with the sale of 4 and possibly 5 players over one season.Hell why would anyone complain about that happening,guess its becuase we're all unrealistic like the beautiful itself.

I don't buy this 'sisu wanted us relegated' theory - it's like saying they don't know the value of money, when in fact that's probably the only thing they fully know.
The squad we had last season should have been enough to secure a low mid-table position, but all the off-field distractions (like the loud sisu-out-campaign) costs us dearly.

If we had stayed up, I don't think the transfer activity would have been much different.

skybluedaze · Jul 21, 2012

Diehard Si said:
Better late than never.

I agree. Time to look at the positives.

RichieGunns · Jul 21, 2012

skybluedaze said:
I agree. Time to look at the positives.

Agreed! Time we counted our blessings and realised we're not in as bad a situation as Portsmouth! AND that our owners aren't stupid enough to continue spending shed loads of money (Like Portsmouth) even though its likely to put them into Administration again (Like Portsmouth)

Just saying...

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jul 21, 2012

Sisu are hardly changing, we have signed loans an frees whilst taking in around 2 mill an probably cutting the wage bill. Biggest change is the board, getting rid of clowns like brody an duleiu an appointing people who are trying to work alongside thorn instead of against him. It isn't as if sisu have suddenly released a load of money to improve the side

torchomatic · Jul 21, 2012

Agree Richie. We did what Portsmouth did once and bought players we couldn't afford and look where we've ended up. We're building in the right way (though maybe not the most exciting) in my opinion.

RichieGunns said:
Agreed! Time we counted our blessings and realised we're not in as bad a situation as Portsmouth! AND that our owners aren't stupid enough to continue spending shed loads of money (Like Portsmouth) even though its likely to put them into Administration again (Like Portsmouth)

Just saying...

RichieGunns · Jul 21, 2012

CCFC said:
Sisu are hardly changing, we have signed loans an frees whilst taking in around 2 mill an probably cutting the wage bill. Biggest change is the board, getting rid of clowns like brody an duleiu an appointing people who are trying to work alongside thorn instead of against him. It isn't as if sisu have suddenly released a load of money to improve the side

Thats my point though. They're not releasing money but getting the signings anyway. Yeh they're unproven but its better than no signings at all!

Plus the money they're not spending is going towards helping to stabalise our club...or at least attempt to stabalise it.

I'd rather have what we've got right now then what Portsmouth are doing. The only thing i can compare Portsmouth too right now is an animal in the last moments of its life as it frashes wildly, clinging to life but knowing its just too late.

It's a sad end to a good club...

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jul 21, 2012

Godiva said:
I don't buy this 'sisu wanted us relegated' theory - it's like saying they don't know the value of money, when in fact that's probably the only thing they fully know.
The squad we had last season should have been enough to secure a low mid-table position, but all the off-field distractions (like the loud sisu-out-campaign) costs us dearly.

If we had stayed up, I don't think the transfer activity would have been much different.

No it wasn't good enough to have a low midtable position, the amount of signings we have had this pre season was the same amount we needed last

RichieGunns · Jul 21, 2012

CCFC said:
No it wasn't good enough to have a low midtable position, the amount of signings we have had this pre season was the same amount we needed last

But last season it was obvious SISU didn't know what they were doing and they couldn't find the right people who did know.

They've rectified that by employing Fisher and Waggot and look whats happened.

Yeh it was too late to save our club from relegation but its had a good effect. It's dumped SISU on their arses and made them realise they needed to start being more pro-active.

Yes its still a little secretive but hell of a lot more honest than it was last season!

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jul 21, 2012

Godiva said:
You don't treat gangrene with a bandage - you amputate or the patience will die.

A half decent doctor treats the patient before gangrene sets in!

Godiva · Jul 21, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
A half decent doctor treats the patient before gangrene sets in!

Agreed. Yet the doctor in the house was Ranson. Only when he was dismissed sisu became the new doctor and immediately started to amputate.

skyblue1523 · Jul 21, 2012

last season we had a below average team that made some of our players look better than they were at last something as been done dead wood gone bringing in nearly anew squad give the club a chance to do the right thing. AT kept his word and waggots doing a fine job in my eyes.I do feel the orange one KD ruined the club last year just like he did with southampton

almac87 · Jul 21, 2012

I think there was a valid point in the original thread. Why are we able to get (not buy) players NOW - but we failed to do this last season when we needed them? I appreciate we need to try and get out of Div 1 first time but we might have avoided the drop with a bit of foresight. We fail to plan and therefore we plan to fail - possibly. I've watched my beloved Sky Blues since Div 3 (South) days but don't want to go there again!!

Astute · Jul 21, 2012

almac87 said:
I think there was a valid point in the original thread. Why are we able to get (not buy) players NOW - but we failed to do this last season when we needed them? I appreciate we need to try and get out of Div 1 first time but we might have avoided the drop with a bit of foresight. We fail to plan and therefore we plan to fail - possibly. I've watched my beloved Sky Blues since Div 3 (South) days but don't want to go there again!!

Bit of bad new for you. We are in Div3 again

Will say it slowly for you. We have a certain budget to keep to. We had to get rid of the higher earners and shite like Fatwood to release their inflated wages before we could bring in players on sustainable wages. The players that have gone were under contract.

DazzleTommyDazzle · Jul 21, 2012

Godiva said:
Agreed. Yet the doctor in the house was Ranson. Only when he was dismissed sisu became the new doctor and immediately started to amputate.

Then the consultant that appointed the doctor should either have made sure that the doctor was the right man for the job and/or supervised him to make sure that the patient was progressing as expected.

I really don't understand why you seem unable to accept that SISU have any responsibility for what has gone on.

torchomatic · Jul 21, 2012

IN this whole Doctor scenario were there any nurses like Barbara Windsor in the Carry Ons?

Godiva · Jul 21, 2012

DazzleTommyDazzle said:
Then the consultant that appointed the doctor should either have made sure that the doctor was the right man for the job and/or supervised him to make sure that the patient was progressing as expected.

I really don't understand why you seem unable to accept that SISU have any responsibility for what has gone on.

Oh I do accept their responsibility - totally. They shouldn't have come here in the first place, but we can count us lucky they did.

I also understand that when they came the financial climate was completely different and their original plans were probably right for that climate. I even believe Ranson could have done a good job if the financial crunch hadn't set in.
When the whole world financially collapsed, then Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott became the wrong managing force as seen by their inabillity to treat the starting gangrene.

valiant15 · Jul 21, 2012

Why should we count ourselves lucky they did?

mattylad · Jul 21, 2012

SISU have changed nothing they have simply agreed to the same budget as last year, its Fisher and Waggot that have changed the hiring policy.....and for that we should be thankful

Astute · Jul 21, 2012

mattylad said:
SISU have changed nothing they have simply agreed to the same budget as last year, its Fisher and Waggot that have changed the hiring policy.....and for that we should be thankful

They have agreed the same budget but with a much lower income. Our income is millions lower this season. Things could have been much worse.

Godiva · Jul 21, 2012

valiant15 said:
Why should we count ourselves lucky they did?

The topic of 'was there any real alternative buyers to sisu' have been discussed numerous times before - I personally don't believe there was.

cyril · Jul 21, 2012

Astute said:
They have agreed the same budget but with a much lower income. Our income is millions lower this season. Things could have been much worse.

This should be the end of thread. Yes we lost players but we also lost 3.5 million in revenue at least. Therefor the player we signed are paid for by SISU

Astute · Jul 21, 2012

Nice 1 Cyril

But some have so much hatred that they won't want to look at facts like this.

I don't want them here, but at least now things are improving. If we go up this season and AT is allowed to improve the squad again I will look at them more favourably. I may forgive if we end up with a strong Championship side, but will never forget.

One big bonus though would be to shut up the people that keep on going on about no top 6 finishes for so many years, not mentioning that we were top flight for most of it but saying the clubs that had been no higher than Div3 but had managed a top 6 finish had done better than us :thinking about: Some people will say anything to bring their own club down.

skyblueinBaku · Jul 21, 2012

Why now? Many reasons, one of which is, I believe, that Sisu want it to seem to ACL/the council that they are serious about the club. Negotiations for a share in the Ricoh failed partly because ACL/the council didn't trust Sisu to support the club properly. I think they still have their eye on the prize (the Ricoh).

wingy · Jul 21, 2012

skyblueindorset said:
Why now? Many reasons, one of which is, I believe, that Sisu want it to seem to ACL/the council that they are serious about the club. Negotiations for a share in the Ricoh failed partly because ACL/the council didn't trust Sisu to support the club properly. I think they still have their eye on the prize (the Ricoh).

The 60 day due dilligence passed on Thursday so we may hear a little something in the next week or two.

wingy · Jul 21, 2012

Astute said:
Nice 1 Cyril

But some have so much hatred that they won't want to look at facts like this.

I don't want them here, but at least now things are improving. If we go up this season and AT is allowed to improve the squad again I will look at them more favourably. I may forgive if we end up with a strong Championship side, but will never forget.

One big bonus though would be to shut up the people that keep on going on about no top 6 finishes for so many years, not mentioning that we were top flight for most of it but saying the clubs that had been no higher than Div3 but had managed a top 6 finish had done better than us :thinking about: Some people will say anything to bring their own club down.

But Cyrils assumption is'nt strictly accurate is it Astute .The evidence this season is that this club is standing or falling alone,thus the predicted sales ,There was a note of caution in the Accounts re; Sisu's intention to fund the coming season.The Club will fund itself this season and was close to doing so last season ,They may provide a trading Float but as the revenues come in through the transfers their balance will be negated.

torchomatic · Jul 21, 2012

But I thought the Chinese were buying us?

Astute · Jul 21, 2012

But the idea is to make us self sufficient whilst having a squad that can compete. Our rwvenues will be well down this season. The player sales will not cover this loss, but with how well we have done in the transfer market we could well turn a profit if the club does well putting us near the top and the fans have something to get excited about for once and the crowds go up.

Grendel · Jul 21, 2012

Astute said:
But the idea is to make us self sufficient whilst having a squad that can compete. Our rwvenues will be well down this season. The player sales will not cover this loss, but with how well we have done in the transfer market we could well turn a profit if the club does well putting us near the top and the fans have something to get excited about for once and the crowds go up.

This is all 100% correct. The real truth about last season I believe lies in their appoitment of KD (I wish they weren't his initials). A hopeless wrecker who almost did to Southampton what he ended doing to us. A buffoon. Now we have a proper board who will work the budget in the clubs interests.

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