Why the wasps deal is wrong (2 Viewers)

wince · Oct 10, 2014

Although 100% against sisu , and the the impact of the damage done by the move to Northampton is yet to be felt, One day sisu will be gone , but its now too late for ccfc to reach the full potential of what the rioch was built for . We all know the politics of the last few years , and if the council so needed to sell at this time , then the price should have been made public, and put on the open market , if the council thought sisu or anyone else they didn't want to have it , they still had there right to veto, like wise the higgs should have used it over this deal ,a least until everyone had a chance to make there case. If wasps really were the only deal in town then why the secrecy .What would happen if cov rugby did get near the prem .Just think this has been handled all wrong ,have always said need to get rid of sisu , then the council , looks like its happening the other way round

letsallsingtogether · Oct 10, 2014

Never too late maybe Wasps will buy CCFC therefore they can both benefit from each other.....

wince said:
Although 100% against sisu , and the the impact of the damage done by the move to Northampton is yet to be felt, One day sisu will be gone , but its now too late for ccfc to reach the full potential of what the rioch was built for . We all know the politics of the last few years , and if the council so needed to sell at this time , then the price should have been made public, and put on the open market , if the council thought sisu or anyone else they didn't want to have it , they still had there right to veto, like wise the higgs should have used it over this deal ,a least until everyone had a chance to make there case. If wasps really were the only deal in town then why the secrecy .What would happen if cov rugby did get near the prem .Just think this has been handled all wrong ,have always said need to get rid of sisu , then the council , looks like its happening the other way round

stupot07 · Oct 10, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
Never too late maybe Wasps will buy CCFC therefore they can both benefit from each other.....

It is too late, note he said "full potential" even if we by some miracle secure the other 50% we will only have 50% revenue and won't ever reach the "full potential" of what the stadium was built for - giving us the platform to become a stable PL club.

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lordsummerisle · Oct 10, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
Never too late maybe Wasps will buy CCFC therefore they can both benefit from each other.....

Aye, they might take us both down to High Wycombe when nobody turns up to watch them in Cov.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 10, 2014

lordsummerisle said:
Aye, they might take us both down to High Wycombe when nobody turns up to watch them in Cov.

What and take us out of the boundaries of Coventry? Come on Lord Sisu wouldn't do that!

The Lurker · Oct 10, 2014

stupot07 said:
It is too late, note he said "full potential" even if we by some miracle secure the other 50% we will only have 50% revenue and won't ever reach the "full potential" of what the stadium was built for - giving us the platform to become a stable PL club.

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A stable PL team? You on drugs? We will never reach the championship anytime soon let alone the Pl and that's down to sisu. Don't use wasps as an excuse. Sisu have had 7 years to own the ground and haven't so........

Nick · Oct 10, 2014

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
What and take us out of the boundaries of Coventry? Come on Lord Sisu wouldn't do that!

Maybe the council should take us over and do it, it would be lapped up then as business genius.

Otis · Oct 10, 2014

stupot07 said:
It is too late, note he said "full potential" even if we by some miracle secure the other 50% we will only have 50% revenue and won't ever reach the "full potential" of what the stadium was built for - giving us the platform to become a stable PL club.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Don't think we would ever get to full potential with Sisu here.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 10, 2014

Nick said:
Maybe the council should take us over and do it, it would be lapped up then as business genius.

What a good idea,see Nick you put your mind to it and

RFC · Oct 10, 2014

stupot07 said:
It is too late, note he said "full potential" even if we by some miracle secure the other 50% we will only have 50% revenue and won't ever reach the "full potential" of what the stadium was built for - giving us the platform to become a stable PL club.

Just
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Just might pay you to check what revenues Wasps will be getting?

The parking (I don't think so), Food & Beverage (definitely NOT, Compass contract runs until either 2018 or 2020?)!!!!!!!!!!

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 10, 2014

RFC said:
Just might pay you to check what revenues Wasps will be getting?

The parking (I don't think so), Food & Beverage (definitely NOT, Compass contract runs until either 2018 or 2020?)!!!!!!!!!!

Why not the parking? F+B who are Compass 50% owned by?

skybluericoh · Oct 10, 2014

Maybe I'm just to easily led.

This time last week we (CCFC) were tenants to a company, ACL on a 2+2 year deal. ACL has 4O odd year lease and we (Our Owners) were not interested in any ownership and were/ are taking the council to court. Along comes the Wasps with cash in hand to buy half of ACL from the council with an extended lease, now 250 years. We (CCFC) are still on a 2+2 tear deal with an open door to extend. No real change to the football club. The ship has still sailed, they are still building their new ground, and SISU still want their day in court, or should I say another day in court, because the 'batter people in court'.

The only difference to CCFC is that they could, and in my opinion should, find away to get the other half for the 2.77 million, just by going to a 250 lease it is all but free hold. They would also be getting a share of F&B from the rugby as well.

I'm not happy that the club did not have the cash, the owners, or whatever we needed to buy the Ricoh, I feel sorry for both the CRFC and WASPS fans, but it done now so I will look at the positives, the local economy benefiting from more supports fans travelling to and spending money in the area. As bad as this is on WAPS fans, I do not feel anymore concerned than most Northampton fans did for us. CRFC have an opportunity to use this as a benefit, by piggy backing on the WAPS development squad etc. I know they do not want to be a feeder club, but face facts they are at the moment, any of our local top class rugby players end up at Tigers, Bath, etc just as we are a feed club to other teams.

Am I happy, not really but what I wanted would not happen so I'll look for the opportunities, and hope that those that have the power to do, find them and act on them.

Hobo · Oct 10, 2014

How come we have had statements from Wasps....lots of information to their fans since the announcement. A statement from CCC (although not a very satisfactory one). A statement from Coventry Rugby.

But no statement from Coventry City Football Club.

I know it is early days, but I would expect one to outline their intent/direction/plan etc., early next week. But I won't hold my breath.

Seaside-Skyblue · Oct 10, 2014

Hobo said:
How come we have had statements from Wasps....lots of information to their fans since the announcement. A statement from CCC (although not a very satisfactory one). A statement from Coventry Rugby.

But no statement from Coventry City Football Club.

I know it is early days, but I would expect one to outline their intent/direction/plan etc., early next week. But I won't hold my breath.

I'm quite happy to not hear any statements from the club as they usually depress me when they say they are progressing with a new stadium. it also gives me hope that they are talking with wasps about a long term deal. We live in hope!!

MichaelCCFC · Oct 10, 2014

Got no idea which thread this belongs on but as posted on FB

sisu are lying, incompetent bullies motivated only by their own financial greed who don't care about football, Coventry, CCFC or fans, should never be allowed any sort of ownership of the ricoh/acl, and are unfit to be CCFC owners...But I just don't understand how that makes it ok for the council to support a sport franchise (especially when they spent a long time saying the Ricoh was profitable even without a sports team), are happy for wasps to be moved 82 miles when they said it was wrong to rip a team out of Coventry and move it to NTFC, act in secrecy, treat fans with contempt by refusing to consult, refuse to consult Cov RFC but claim no harm will be caused to Cov RFC despite them overnight being made into a junior team within our City - and provide not one jot of evidence that this makes sisu more rather than less likely to pack up. Answers very welcome!

Otis · Oct 10, 2014

Hobo said:
How come we have had statements from Wasps....lots of information to their fans since the announcement. A statement from CCC (although not a very satisfactory one). A statement from Coventry Rugby.

But no statement from Coventry City Football Club.

I know it is early days, but I would expect one to outline their intent/direction/plan etc., early next week. But I won't hold my breath.

No statement until late in the day by Joy, sort of points to winds knocked out of sails doesn't it?

As for today, I would guess they have their legal team scrutinising every possiblity of the Higgs share situation in very fine detail.

stupot07 · Oct 10, 2014

The Lurker said:
A stable PL team? You on drugs? We will never reach the championship anytime soon let alone the Pl and that's down to sisu. Don't use wasps as an excuse. Sisu have had 7 years to own the ground and haven't so........

I'm talking about the medium to long term future. Things are shit now, but sisu won't be here forever. Yes sisu should have brought the ground straight away instead of investing in the squad in the hope of fluking promotion.

It's about having hope, one day I hope we'll have decent owners, one day I hope we'll get back to the PL, one day I hoped we'd own (leasehold or freehold) our own ground (the Ricoh) oh shit, that's never gonna happen now...

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stupot07 · Oct 10, 2014

Otis said:
Don't think we would ever get to full potential with Sisu here.

No we won't, but they won't be here forever.

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Otis · Oct 10, 2014

stupot07 said:
No we won't, but they won't be here forever.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Can I have that in writing!

Neutral Fan · Oct 10, 2014

skybluericoh said:
Maybe I'm just to easily led.

I'm not happy that the club did not have the cash, the owners, or whatever we needed to buy the Ricoh, I feel sorry for both the CRFC and WASPS fans, but it done now so I will look at the positives, the local economy benefiting from more supports fans travelling to and spending money in the area. As bad as this is on WAPS fans, I do not feel anymore concerned than most Northampton fans did for us. CRFC have an opportunity to use this as a benefit, by piggy backing on the WAPS development squad etc.

Am I happy, not really but what I wanted would not happen so I'll look for the opportunities, and hope that those that have the power to do, find them and act on them.

Living in Northampton I can tell you virtually NO local fans went to Cov games at Sixfields. You seem to be already trying to justify why you can support RFC Franchise as if CCFC and RFCC don't matter.

One presumes the backers of Wasps haven't been so stupid to lose the 2nd 50%...they'll have that in the bag, never worry.

Franchising is BAD news, I don't think you can ever justify it.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 10, 2014

RFC said:
Just might pay you to check what revenues Wasps will be getting?

The parking (I don't think so), Food & Beverage (definitely NOT, Compass contract runs until either 2018 or 2020?)!!!!!!!!!!

might pay you to actually understand the set up ......

Compass provide the staffing and management of IEC Experience Limited. They bill IEC for that in line with the supply contract they have

IEC has a 15 year contract to operate the stadium for ACL that it paid ACL over 4m for. The money having been raised by an IEC share issue & premium that saw Compass take a 23% interest in IEC

The operating income is recorded in the accounts of IEC - that would be Events, hospitality , conferences, F&B, even car parking etc. Why? because it is IEC's income no one elses.

As indicated above Compass own 23% of IEC and should IEC ever vote a dividend would receive 23% of the total dividend paid out

The other 77% of IEC is owned by ACL who also receives income in its own right from Rents and other sources. That means that in law ACL controls IEC and is its holding company and IEC ACL's subsidiary

ACL as it stands at the moment is owned 50% by AEHC and 50% by Wasps. When as seems very likely Wasps acquire 100% then the majority interest in IEC will be theirs, which means any income that either IEC or ACL have is controlled by Wasps. At the moment Wasps control 50% of ACL which controls 77% of IEC

HELP !!!! - lord give me strength - stop coming out with misleading incorrect information on things you clearly know little about and do not take time to find out about

martcov · Oct 10, 2014

Nick said:
Maybe the council should take us over and do it, it would be lapped up then as business genius.

Oh really....

torchomatic · Oct 10, 2014

Cool, it gets even better. The Council Franchise Rugby Team will get even more money. I feel OK now. Might even write Ann a letter of apology.

oldskyblue58 said:
might pay you to actually understand the set up ......

Compass provide the staffing and management of IEC Experience Limited. They bill IEC for that in line with the supply contract they have

IEC has a 15 year contract to operate the stadium for ACL that it paid ACL over 4m for. The money having been raised by an IEC share issue & premium that saw Compass take a 23% interest in IEC

The operating income is recorded in the accounts of IEC - that would be Events, F&B even car parking etc.

As indicated above Compass own 23% of IEC and should IEC ever vote a dividend would receive 23% of the total dividend paid out

The other 77% of IEC is owned by ACL who also receives income in its own right from Rents and other sources. That means that in law ACL controls IEC and is its holding company and IEC ACL's subsidiary

ACL as it stands at the moment is owned 50% by AEHC and 50% by Wasps. When as seems very likely Wasps acquire 100% then the majority interest in IEC will be theirs, which means any income that either IEC or ACL have is controlled by Wasps

HELP !!!! - lord give me strength - stop coming out with misleading incorrect information on things you clearly know little about and do not take time to find out about

oldskyblue58 · Oct 10, 2014

do what you feel is best Torch , I was just getting the correct facts out there rather than the multitude of incorrect guesses or half truths that seem to everywhere. Didnt say I agreed with Wasps owning it .....

torchomatic · Oct 10, 2014

I know, I know. The more I read and think about it the worse I feel.

oldskyblue58 said:
do what you feel is best Torch , I was just getting the correct facts out there rather than the multitude of incorrect guesses or half truths that seem to everywhere. Didnt say I agreed with Wasps owning it .....

martcov · Oct 10, 2014

torchomatic said:
Cool, it gets even better. The Council Franchise Rugby Team will get even more money. I feel OK now. Might even write Ann a letter of apology.

Yes, please do that. It should be the owners of CCFC not Wasps who are sitting pretty. Instead of that we have had endless court cases, changes of management/ directors, JRs and are building an out of town stadium. I am absolutely pissed off that SISU totally messed up and surprised that you are content to slag off the council, who are only ex 50% landlords and have nothing to do with the decision making of SISU/ Otium.

Nick · Oct 10, 2014

martcov said:
Yes, please do that. It should be the owners of CCFC not Wasps who are sitting pretty. Instead of that we have had endless court cases, changes of management/ directors, JRs and are building an out of town stadium. I am absolutely pissed off that SISU totally messed up and surprised that you are content to slag off the council, who are only ex 50% landlords and have nothing to do with the decision making of SISU/ Otium.

For somebody is too busy to talk football because of work you can spare a lot of time defending the council?

They are only the ex landlords though so what's the obsession?

Grendel · Oct 10, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
do what you feel is best Torch , I was just getting the correct facts out there rather than the multitude of incorrect guesses or half truths that seem to everywhere. Didnt say I agreed with Wasps owning it .....

Given the rather dubious financial affairs of Wasps are the funding arrangements for purchase likely to be loans and / or equity release do you think?

stupot07 · Oct 10, 2014

torchomatic said:
I know, I know. The more I read and think about it the worse I feel.

I wouldn't Torch, Wasps will be giving us a large proportion of the revenue out of the goodness of their hearts.....they need us and our footfall, so they will pay us to play there.....

Grendel · Oct 10, 2014

martcov said:
Yes, please do that. It should be the owners of CCFC not Wasps who are sitting pretty. Instead of that we have had endless court cases, changes of management/ directors, JRs and are building an out of town stadium. I am absolutely pissed off that SISU totally messed up and surprised that you are content to slag off the council, who are only ex 50% landlords and have nothing to do with the decision making of SISU/ Otium.

The council own the freehold according to your boss so are 100% owners as Landlords

At least read the script before spouting your predictable council crap.

torchomatic · Oct 10, 2014

You'll be writing love letters to her by the sounds of it. You've got a lot of competition. Don't forget to put H.O.L.L.A.N.D.

Yes, SISU fucked up, no one denies that.

martcov said:
Yes, please do that. It should be the owners of CCFC not Wasps who are sitting pretty. Instead of that we have had endless court cases, changes of management/ directors, JRs and are building an out of town stadium. I am absolutely pissed off that SISU totally messed up and surprised that you are content to slag off the council, who are only ex 50% landlords and have nothing to do with the decision making of SISU/ Otium.

Nick · Oct 10, 2014

torchomatic said:
you'll be writing love letters to her by the sounds of it. You've got a lot of competition. Don't forget to put h.o.l.l.a.n.d.

Yes, sisu fucked up, no one denies that.

s.w.a.l.k

oldskyblue58 · Oct 10, 2014

In terms of the shares themselves I am tempted to say, that because of the relatively low numbers and the desire of the old stakeholders to have a clean break of ownership, it would be cash. Wasps obviously have at least one money backer in this. But I agree the initial examination of their financials doesnt paint a great picture.

Sellers order of preference I would have thought was

Cash
Short term secured loan
Equity release

I cant see the Charity wanting to wait for their money if they are taking a 3.8m haircut

Dont think we are likely to find out or get a feel for it until probably March 2016 when the 2015 accounts are filed for AEHC, ACL or London Wasps. Unless they choose to tell us

martcov · Oct 10, 2014

Grendel said:
The council own the freehold according to your boss so are 100% owners as Landlords

At least read the script before spouting your predictable council crap.

CCFC's current landlords are Wasps and Higgs. Read the script. Saying CCFC's owners should be sitting pretty at the Ricoh rather than Wasps is hardly council crap. Read the posts.

Como · Oct 10, 2014

ACL remain CCFC's Landlords, one of the owners has changed and at some time so will the other.

SISU have shown no interest in doing such a deal, Ricoh needed somebody to take it on and I would prefer CCFC but that is and was not an option. Hope they make a go of it .CCFC are and will be a tenant for 20 odd days a year.

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