Why Thorn has to take some of the blame! (1 Viewer)

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

A few reasons I think Thorn needs to take the blame (I am not saying it is all his fault as obviously he has had no investment but neither did Boothroyd).

He doesnt seem to know how to make game changing decisions. Just take a look at opposition teams to see how they change things around to benefit and usually end up beating us. It is like he only knows how to play a diamond and will stick to that no matter what.
Tonight he said as soon as we came out for the second half the game changed. Did that have anything to do with Henry coming on at half time and why didn't he change things before it got to 2-0? What exactly is Platt meant to do when coming on at 2-0.
People say the players are rubbish, how many do we think Thorn scouted before we signed them? Didn't he come out and say McDonald was his number 1 target? How many of the starting 11 tonight do we reckon we scouted by Thorn?
Morale. Just lately it does seem to be as if there are some hidden things in the camp the more Thorn starts to have a go at the players (which they deserve). I would love to be a fly on the wall or speak to one of the players to see what they really think of the situation.
Investment. We know we aren't getting investment but what frustrates me is the lack of depth and imagination when it comes to formations and tactics. At times we play great football but possession doesn't win us points.

cooperskyblue · Nov 2, 2011

Agree with You about lack of ingame decisions but to be fair Boothroyd was allowed to bring in 8/9 players in, thorns brought in 3 of which 2 are goalkeepers , it really is pathetic

Macca · Nov 2, 2011

If we are so bad and Thorn is completely faultless, why do we have good periods in most games?

I'm fed up with arguing but I'll stand by it all day, this team should not be in the position it is

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

Macca said:
If we are so bad and Thorn is completely faultless, why do we have good periods in most games?

That is what I am thinking. It is not like teams come out and just completely hammer us. If you look closely then other managers seem to make game changing decisions against us which is what annoys me.

Eddie Howe did it for Burnley, it happened at Palace, it happened tonight.

I am not in the "Lets all witch hunt and shoot Thorn" camp, but then again I can't understand the "Thorn is doing nothing wrong, it is all SISU" camp. If it was all about poor players we wouldnt have good spells.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Nov 2, 2011

I would agree than Thorn can be seen as culpable in some respects. However, with regards formation and tactics - has he really got a squad with the depth of quality to allow him to freely change? When we cannot compete with Milwall, Barnsley and Doncaster for player's signatures, should we really be surprised hen the players we can't afford gel into a team that then goes on to beat us?

The CableGuy · Nov 2, 2011

Diamond Diamond Pass Pass Diamond Diamond Pass Pass Chance Miss Pass Diamond Pass Pass Chance Miss Chance Miss Diamond Pass-Backwards Pass-Sideways Pass Pass Pass Chance Miss Chance Over the Bar Chance In Orbit Pass Opposition Manger makes change Pass Pass Pass Chance Miss Chance Over the Bar 1-0 DOWN Corner Wasted Free Kick Wasted Chance Missed 4-2-2? Frack that! Diamond Diamond Pass Pass Diamond Diamond Pass Pass Chance Miss Pass Diamond Pass Pass Chance Subs? What are they? 2-0 DOWN Pass Pass Chance Miss Pass Diamond Pass Pass Chance Missed Chance 3-0 DOWN Diamond Pass Pass Chance Miss Pass Diamond Pass Pass Chance Miss Chance Miss Diamond Pass-Backwards FULL TIME

Sighs.

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
However, with regards formation and tactics - has he really got a squad with the depth of quality to allow him to freely change?

These are footballers who get paid a lot, some of them he signed. I am pretty sure they can play in more than one formation. Why is it other managers don't always have to make a substitution to change their system against us?

AFCCOVENTRY · Nov 2, 2011

I seriously say we just play the youth players now. That is the only last thing I would support at our club.

Put Courtney Richards up front and Jemel Wiseman and Lewis Garner in. Bring some pace and excitement into our play.

rob9872 · Nov 2, 2011

He doesnt seem to know how to make game changing decisions. Just take a look at opposition teams to see how they change things around to benefit and usually end up beating us. It is like he only knows how to play a diamond and will stick to that no matter what. Lack of credible options to change - ROD anyone?

Tonight he said as soon as we came out for the second half the game changed. Did that have anything to do with Henry coming on at half time and why didn't he change things before it got to 2-0? What exactly is Platt meant to do when coming on at 2-0. The difference is they have a squad capable of this and they are not even one of the strongest in this league. We don't have such luxuries

[*]People say the players are rubbish, how many do we think Thorn scouted before we signed them? Didn't he come out and say McDonald was his number 1 target? How many of the starting 11 tonight do we reckon we scouted by Thorn?
#thorn scouted them to play with other players some of who have moved on. Not all will work thats the gamble with buying lower league players. Some will have been identified and we either couldn't get or will have been not able to buy due to financial restraints. The good ones will be cherry picked and the dross that nobody else wants (like Eastwood on high wages) left behind. What do you expect him to say about Cody? I didn't want him he was my 5th choice but we're stcuk with him. Besides not yet match fit and has shown glimpses. He has hardly played at this level and may still come good.

[*]Morale. Just lately it does seem to be as if there are some hidden things in the camp the more Thorn starts to have a go at the players (which they deserve). I would love to be a fly on the wall or speak to one of the players to see what they really think of the situation. On what evidence are we basing that all is not ok? The only thing we have as quotes are from Thorn and the players that all is ok.

[*]Investment. We know we aren't getting investment but what frustrates me is the lack of depth and imagination when it comes to formations and tactics. At times we play great football but possession doesn't win us points. We play great football because that's his passing style. Unfortunately with no budget and no quality in the final third we have no cutting edge. Again you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

Ffs every team has good periods in a match, however shite they are

Boothroyd brought noone in?
Juke, platt, mcsheffery, carsley, keogh, rod, O'halloran, king, ward, 2 loan keepers to name but a few?

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

stupot07 said:
Ffs every team has good periods in a match, however shite they are

Boothroyd brought noone in?
Juke, platt, mcsheffery, carsley, keogh, rod, O'halloran, king, ward, 2 loan keepers to name but a few?

Like I said, we don't know who was scouted by AT or who AB brought in (apart from King) so it is hard to say who chose them.

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

Nick said:
Like I said, we don't know who was scouted by AT or who AB brought in (apart from King) so it is hard to say who chose them.

You actually said that you know that AT has had no investment but neither did AB - this is clearly untrue.

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

rob9872 said:
He doesnt seem to know how to make game changing decisions. Just take a look at opposition teams to see how they change things around to benefit and usually end up beating us. It is like he only knows how to play a diamond and will stick to that no matter what. Lack of credible options to change - ROD anyone?

Why can he not play anything other than the diamond? Does he not realise teams figure is out? Is it set in stone that the players we have HAVE to play that formation? ROD wasnt even on the bench tonight

Tonight he said as soon as we came out for the second half the game changed. Did that have anything to do with Henry coming on at half time and why didn't he change things before it got to 2-0? What exactly is Platt meant to do when coming on at 2-0. The difference is they have a squad capable of this and they are not even one of the strongest in this league. We don't have such luxuries

So why does he never TRY?
[*]People say the players are rubbish, how many do we think Thorn scouted before we signed them? Didn't he come out and say McDonald was his number 1 target? How many of the starting 11 tonight do we reckon we scouted by Thorn?
#thorn scouted them to play with other players some of who have moved on. Not all will work thats the gamble with buying lower league players. Some will have been identified and we either couldn't get or will have been not able to buy due to financial restraints. The good ones will be cherry picked and the dross that nobody else wants (like Eastwood on high wages) left behind. What do you expect him to say about Cody? I didn't want him he was my 5th choice but we're stcuk with him. Besides not yet match fit and has shown glimpses. He has hardly played at this level and may still come good.

If he was his 5th choice then say nothing. Dont go out of your way to come out and say he was your first. If he wasnt then the player will know he wasnt, it will just make him feel like a dickhead and as if AT is mocking him by making these statements!

[*]Morale. Just lately it does seem to be as if there are some hidden things in the camp the more Thorn starts to have a go at the players (which they deserve). I would love to be a fly on the wall or speak to one of the players to see what they really think of the situation. On what evidence are we basing that all is not ok? The only thing we have as quotes are from Thorn and the players that all is ok.

[*]Investment. We know we aren't getting investment but what frustrates me is the lack of depth and imagination when it comes to formations and tactics. At times we play great football but possession doesn't win us points. We play great football because that's his passing style. Unfortunately with no budget and no quality in the final third we have no cutting edge. Again you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear

Yes, we play great passing football. Until managers see how they can zone in and beat that tactic or one of our players fuck up a pass across our 18 yard box for them to score. If like you say we have rubbish players, there is no point trying to play like barcelona is there?

Added some in

Macca · Nov 2, 2011

Well for me if we have reached a point where a manager with Thorns record is not accountable in anyway and its all down to owners who show no signs of calling it day then its time to wave the white flag and surrender. Sad times.

Just as an aside, if suddenly money became no object would you all be happy to continue with AT?

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

stupot07 said:
You actually said that you know that AT has had no investment but neither did AB - this is clearly untrue.

When? I said we don't know who was scouted and picked by AT or brought in by AB. For all we know most of our team are AB's players or they could have all been picked by AT. Obviously AB had more backing as he was able to sign more players.

rob9872 · Nov 2, 2011

We're going down. Changing him will not alter that. I would rather go down playing football and having that ethic instilled into the younger players who will be better for it and who we will need next season than hoofing it up in the air AB style. It's more entertaining despite that it flatters to deceive.

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

rob9872 said:
We're going down. Changing him will not alter that. I would rather go down playing football and having that ethic instilled into the younger players who will be better for it and who we will need next season than hoofing it up in the air AB style. It's more entertaining despite that it flatters to deceive.

I would much rather stay up by playing hoof ball and getting results than playing like Barca and losing every week.

rob9872 · Nov 2, 2011

If money were no object AT wouldn't have got the job. In your hypothetical world I would go for Jose, but even with just a realistic budget I would love to see what AT could do with a few quid to spend. Unfortunately getting it now would still be a struggle as its really needed pre-season. We would struggle to attract players to even come and play for us.

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

Nick said:
A few reasons I think Thorn needs to take the blame (I am not saying it is all his fault as obviously he has had no investment but neither did Boothroyd).

[/LIST]

You said it here.....

rob9872 · Nov 2, 2011

Nick said:
I would much rather stay up by playing hoof ball and getting results than playing like Barca and losing every week.

So would I, but hoofing it wouldn't achieve anything different imo as we don't have the players to succed doing that either it would just be even worse on the eye.

Jimmy Hill's Chin · Nov 2, 2011

cooperskyblue said:
Agree with You about lack of ingame decisions but to be fair Boothroyd was allowed to bring in 8/9 players in, thorns brought in 3 of which 2 are goalkeepers , it really is pathetic

Shame SISU didn't just bring in 11 goalkeepers and play them all.

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

stupot07 said:
You said it here.....

No idea why I typed that or what I meant by it, my mistake!

stupot07 · Nov 2, 2011

If you'd rather us play hoofball we might as well just cash in on Biggy and Thomas now, because they will be wasted and stagnate playing hoofball.

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

stupot07 said:
If you'd rather us play hoofball we might as well just cash in on Biggy and Thomas now, because they will be wasted and stagnate playing hoofball.

I am not saying I would rather us play like that. I would much rather we played attractive football every week and won games, but if it took us playing Hoofball to get results then I would be all for it.

sky blue john · Nov 2, 2011

Nick said:
I would much rather stay up by playing hoof ball and getting results than playing like Barca and losing every week.

But Nick we tried hoof ball every week and that didn't work either and with a lot better squad than we have now !!!!!!!!!!!

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

sky blue john said:
But Nick we tried hoof ball every week and that didn't work either and with a lot better squad than we have now !!!!!!!!!!!

It did work to start off with.

There are other ways to play football though other than hoofing it or by trying to pass like Barca. To say we can't because of the players we have is rubbish. We need a plan b, plan c and plan d. At the minute we barely have a plan B.

oldskyblue58 · Nov 2, 2011

Successful teams are a marriage of successful players on the pitch and a successful team off it. Both parts contribute to that success

we have neither..... Both parts contribute to that.

You cannot divorce the manager from the team they both contribute to the results achieved or not. AT contributes to the teams failure you can argue about the degree

Grendel · Nov 2, 2011

I don't see what is attractive about the way we play now. Few crosses, a derth of goalscoring opportunities, no goals.

Passing the ball around our back-line is pointless, we are over-run in midfield.

Most boring football I can remember, also can' remember too many people complaining about last season's style in the first half of the season when games were being won.

Nick · Nov 2, 2011

Like I said I am no way saying it is ALL his fault, but he isn't blameless.

rob9872 · Nov 2, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
Successful teams are a marriage of successful players on the pitch and a successful team off it. Both parts contribute to that success

we have neither..... Both parts contribute to that.

You cannot divorce the manager from the team they both contribute to the results achieved or not. AT contributes to the teams failure you can argue about the degree

If I managed Man Utd they would still win some games and for that I should take no credit. Surely therefore there is an argument that the reverse can also be true? I'm not suggesting it is true, but you have to accept that it's possible?

oldskyblue58 · Nov 2, 2011

rob9872 said:
If I managed Man Utd they would still win some games and for that I should take no credit. Surely therefore there is an argument that the reverse can also be true? I'm not suggesting it is true, but you have to accept that it's possible?

Take the point Rob but it depends on your definition of success. Man Utd might win a few games with you in charge but would probably (with all respect ) lose more than usual and that would for them be unsuccessful.... even so you would have to pick the team (eg who plays as forward Rooney Hernandez Welbeck, Owen, Berbatov for example) maybe even decide tactics so you would have an input in success or failure

Why Thorn has to take some of the blame! (1 Viewer)

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