Will Gary Hoffman... (36 Viewers)

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
No mate, the circle is in your head. Seems everyone is saying you are wrong....why cant you take the hint??????? Narcissistic episode maybe?

You and a WUM account are saying I'm wrong. The same WUM account that has also agreed with me while trying to disagree.

There is no hint, it's simple. What does invest mean:

put (money) into financial schemes, shares, property, or a commercial venture with the expectation of achieving a profit.

Have SISU put money into CCFC this season to help buy players and make us better on the pitch or is the money from CCFC generated funds (player sales, promotion etc)?

If the answer is yes, SISU have chucked some money in this season. They have invested.
If it is from CCFC generated funds, SISU haven't invested.

It is that simple. You and the WUM fella can go on all you like about if I know about business, I knew enough to know that I wasn't investing money in the business if I wasn't putting money in personally.

I don't know how simple you need it to be?

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Colin Steins Smile said:
Is this going to be the first 100 page thread? Greggs v Nick

Perhaps!! While i sit here wasting my energy on him, the company I've invested in has its stock going through the roof!!!!

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
You and a WUM account are saying I'm wrong. The same WUM account that has also agreed with me while trying to disagree.

There is no hint, it's simple. What does invest mean:

Have SISU put money into CCFC this season to help buy players and make us better on the pitch or is the money from CCFC generated funds (player sales, promotion etc)?

If the answer is yes, SISU have chucked some money in this season. They have invested.
If it is from CCFC generated funds, SISU haven't invested.

It is that simple. You and the WUM fella can go on all you like about if I know about business, I knew enough to know that I wasn't investing money in the business if I wasn't putting money in personally.

I don't know how simple you need it to be?

So a company re-investing profits isn't investing???? Remember Sisu could have decided we weren't allowed to re-invest any profit. IT'S SO SIMPLE!

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
So a company re-investing profits isn't investing???? Remember Sisu could have decided we weren't allowed to re-invest any profit. IT'S SO SIMPLE!

Yes, but CCFC isn't SISU. Is it?

So it is CCFC re-investing (investing in players) CCFC money they have generated.

If SISU were investing (the actual original point I was replying to) they would be putting the money in to pay for it all. .

Look at the definition of invest, as I said about 100 posts ago. It could be Piers Morgan or Katie Hopkins saying to do something but unless it's them putting the money in then they aren't actually investing.

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
Yes, but CCFC isn't SISU. Is it?

So it is CCFC re-investing (investing in players) CCFC money they have generated.

If SISU were investing (the actual original point I was replying to) they would be putting the money in to pay for it all.

Ok, we're getting somewhere. Did Sisu allow the club to spend profit from the Maddison sale, rather than keep it for themselves??? Simple Yes or No please.

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
Ok, we're getting somewhere. Did Sisu allow the club to spend profit from the Maddison sale, rather than keep it for themselves??? Simple Yes or No please.

Who knows if it was the Maddison sale or McNulty. Money was spent that the club brought in, yes.

It wasn't money that SISU brought in they decided to put into CCFC to buy players. (which would be them investing).

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
Yes, but CCFC isn't SISU. Is it?

So it is CCFC re-investing (investing in players) CCFC money they have generated.

If SISU were investing (the actual original point I was replying to) they would be putting the money in to pay for it all. .

Look at the definition of invest, as I said about 100 posts ago. It could be Piers Morgan or Katie Hopkins saying to do something but unless it's them putting the money in then they aren't actually investing.

I run 2 successful businesses and have good money invested in the stock market. I don't need a lecture from you on that mate.

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
Who knows if it was the Maddison sale or McNulty. Money was spent that the club brought in, yes.

It wasn't money that SISU brought in they decided to put into CCFC to buy players. (which would be them investing).

Same difference. Sisu could have kept every penny the club made last season, the fact they didn't answers this whole riddle.

Magwitch · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
Did Chaplin and Bakayoko get signed from the profit we made selling Mcnulty? Yes. If Sisu had pocketed all that money, fair enough, instead they let the club invest it!

Is pocketing £1.5+ million and spending £500k approx. investment?

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
Same difference. Sisu could have kept every penny the club made last season, the fact they didn't answers this whole riddle.

The riddle is about if SISU invested or not.

Not taking something, isn't investing.

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Magwitch said:
Is pocketing £1.5+ million and spending £500k approx. investment?

Yes, if you then sell that 500k investmest for £2 million a year down the line. As we have good previous for.

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
I run 2 successful businesses and have good money invested in the stock market. I don't need a lecture from you on that mate.

Good for you. Did you actually put money in to invest then?

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
The riddle is about if SISU invested or not.

Not taking something, isn't investing.

whats the opposite of not taking something?

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
Good for you. Did you actually put money in to invest then?

To start the businesses and cover losses for a while, yes. Now i just use the money generated rather than take any profit, but i could easily take profit each year and just see the business stagnate or even depreciate. So i see it as everytime i use company money to buy something, i'm investing in the future of my company.

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
whats the opposite of not taking something?

Clearly not "invest". Obviously.

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
To start the businesses and cover losses for a while, yes. Now i just use the money generated rather than take any profit, but i could easily take profit each year and just see the business stagnate or even depreciate. So i see it as everytime i use company money to buy something, i'm investing in the future of my company.

I meant for the shares.

If you are using company money then it is the company investing.

If you are putting personal money in to start and/or cover losses, then yes that's you investing.

If your company needed a new van but the company didn't have the money so you put the money in from your own pocket, that would be you investing it.

Obviously, I bet you invest lots of time into the businesses rather than just money. Same can't really be said for SISU as that's left with the people below them (Boddy, Robins etc).

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
Clearly not "invest". Obviously.

Not taking something could also be classed as allowing somebody to invest the money. If they were 'taking something' we'd have nothing to spend!

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
Not taking something could also be classed as allowing somebody to invest the money. If they were 'taking something' we'd have nothing to spend!

It isn't SISU investing though is it? Which going back to about 5 pages ago was what I said.

All I said was in reply to somebody saying "Look at what sisu have invested this season" was that they hadn't. It gave the impression SISU were pumping loads of money in to help us do well on the pitch which was wrong.

For the record, I wouldn't want them to either.

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
I meant for the shares.

If you are using company money then it is the company investing.

If you are putting personal money in to start and/or cover losses, then yes that's you investing.

If your company needed a new van but the company didn't have the money so you put the money in from your own pocket, that would be you investing it.

Obviously, I bet you invest lots of time into the businesses rather than just money. Same can't really be said for SISU as that's left with the people below them (Boddy, Robins etc).

Besides the ground situation, Are you happy with how the club is being run now? Vastly improved facilities at Ryton, the Academies future is secure too. We seem to have a good business model of signing young promising players, improving them and selling for a profit, all while improving as a side. I've been entertained every weekend this season and last! I know it's only been 18 -24 months of any side of an upturn, but even you must see the club is on it's way back?

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
Besides the ground situation, Are you happy with how the club is being run now? Vastly improved facilities at Ryton, the Academies future is secure too. We seem to have a good business model of signing young promising players, improving them and selling for a profit, all while improving as a side. I've been entertained every weekend this season and last! I know it's only been 18 -24 months of any side of an upturn, but even you must see the club is on it's way back?

I've never said it isn't though? If you read any of my posts I have said all along I would prefer us to be self sufficient and not spend money we don't have.

That's not the point I was on about.

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
It isn't SISU investing though is it? Which going back to about 5 pages ago was what I said.

All I said was in reply to somebody saying "Look at what sisu have invested this season" was that they hadn't. It gave the impression SISU were pumping loads of money in to help us do well on the pitch which was wrong.

For the record, I wouldn't want them to either.

truce?

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
I've never said it isn't though? If you read any of my posts I have said all along I would prefer us to be self sufficient and not spend money we don't have.

That's not the point I was on about.

I know you haven't, i was simply asking and trying to move the topic along. You're extremely defensive mate.

WhaleOilBeefHooked · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
You and a WUM account are saying I'm wrong.

Just like in this thread, Nick, you're too stubborn to realise I'm not a WUM account. But you know everything, right? You're never wrong. You're correct on 100% on the entire 84,500+ posts you've left on this site.

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

WhaleOilBeefHooked said:
Just like in this thread, Nick, you're too stubborn to realise I'm not a WUM account. But you know everything, right? You're never wrong. You're correct on 100% on the entire 84,500+ posts you've left on this site.

Nah, not all of them. When I'm not I am the first to admit it

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
I know you haven't, i was simply asking and trying to move the topic along. You're extremely defensive mate.

I'm not, it's just the point I was making where a couple of people then pile in.

I was just trying to clear up the impression that SISU were themselves investing in the playing squad which is what a couple of people hinted at.

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
I'm not, it's just the point I was making where a couple of people then pile in.

I was just trying to clear up the impression that SISU were themselves investing in the playing squad which is what a couple of people hinted at.

Ok cool mate. No worries

Captain Dart · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
For the last 15 years, yes. Finally they have turned the business around so they don't need to use there own money anymore. So, when you say Sisu havent invested, your chatting shit. The pure fact they didn't pocket all of the Maddison money, giving a dividend to their investors, instead letting us use it! I think we need to draw a line with this one. I this we've gotten our wires crossed along they way. Would be a much easier discussion in person though.

I think OSB has just pointed out that accounts covering the Maddison transaction have not been published yet, so we can't say that and even when the accounts are published the finer details are not so it will be unclear how the net sums relate to specific transfer(s). I should also point out that dividends can only be paid on profits and CCFC has made a loss in every year that SISU/ARVO have been in charge for which accounts have been published.

So basically can I ask can you please stop talking shit.

WhaleOilBeefHooked · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
Nah, not all of them. When I'm not I am the first to admit it

Well that's a load of bollocks, mate.

You sit on here all day, and if anyone has an opinion different to you, you instantly, constantly and incessantly reply to make it sound that you're right, regardless of what anyone else says. A good debater takers into account what the other party says - you do not. Your opinion is gospel, like it or not.

A great example - my account. You're convinced I'm a troll account, purely on the basis that it's a new account and I dared to type out the word 'Wasps'. No matter what anyone says, if you have an opinion, you don't listen to anything else.

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

Captain Dart said:
I think OSB has just pointed out that accounts covering the Maddison transaction have not been published yet, so we can't say that and even when the accounts are published the finer details are not so it will be unclear how the net sums relate to specific transfer(s). I should also point out that dividends can only be paid on profits and CCFC has made a loss in every year that SISU/ARVO have been in charge for which accounts have been published.

So basically can I ask can you please stop talking shit.

Profits from promotion, cup success, years of player sales (Wilson, Clarke etc). Not just Maddison.

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

WhaleOilBeefHooked said:
Well that's a load of bollocks, mate.

You sit on here all day, and if anyone has an opinion different to you, you instantly, constantly and incessantly reply to make it sound that you're right, regardless of what anyone else says. A good debater takers into account what the other party says - you do not. Your opinion is gospel, like it or not.

A great example - my account. You're convinced I'm a troll account, purely on the basis that it's a new account and I dared to type out the word 'Wasps'. No matter what anyone says, if you have an opinion, you don't listen to anything else.

You do realise you have agreed with the point I made in this thread, don't you?

Nah, your post history and your contradictions do that for me. When somebody signs up and clearly has an aim of certain topics they want to post about then alarm bells go off. When they act like they are experts about other posters it adds to it a bit more.

It usually starts with "Ive been a CCFC fan for over (insert years here) years". It wasn't actually me who pointed out your account either...

chiefdave · Oct 15, 2018

Buying and selling players is part of the day to day business of a football club. Some players will be sold on at a profit, some players the club will make a loss on. Overall the club has to balance the books to be self sufficient. The playing budget is part of that.

Its mental to suggest that SISU allowing the club to continue its day to day business is defined as investing. What next, celebrate that Joys not turning up every week to take the ticket money home with her?

Whats the alternative? Any money the club generates goes to SISU and the club ceases to exist. You're applauding the owners of a company for not liquidating it!

WhaleOilBeefHooked · Oct 15, 2018

Nick said:
You do realise you have agreed with the point I made in this thread, don't you?

And I've never disagreed. You're correct, SISU as an entity have not invested this year as, presumably, all funds have been made and spent by CCFC. However when CCFC is ultimately controlled and owned by SISU, you can see why people say "SISU have invested". CCFC is a shell company, in effect, for SISU investments and decisions. CCFC is, overall, an investment of SISU.

Nick said:
Nah, your post history and your contradictions do that for me. When somebody signs up and clearly has an aim of certain topics they want to post about then alarm bells go off. When they act like they are experts about other posters it adds to it a bit more.

Ah, what compelling evidence! You've got me bang to rights. All because I had a different opinion to you. See post above.

Greggs · Oct 15, 2018

chiefdave said:
Buying and selling players is part of the day to day business of a football club. Some players will be sold on at a profit, some players the club will make a loss on. Overall the club has to balance the books to be self sufficient. The playing budget is part of that.

Its mental to suggest that SISU allowing the club to continue its day to day business is defined as investing. What next, celebrate that Joys not turning up every week to take the ticket money home with her?

Whats the alternative? Any money the club generates goes to SISU and the club ceases to exist. You're applauding the owners of a company for not liquidating it!

But hasn't ours increased significantly over the last 2 seasons? Perhaps it's just the case of it being spent better now. We definitely don't have any 'deadwood' like previous years.
They could easily do that, no applause from me. Basic economics .They decide to invest the profits back into the business. Simple

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

WhaleOilBeefHooked said:
And I've never disagreed. You're correct, SISU as an entity have not invested this year as, presumably, all funds have been made and spent by CCFC. However when CCFC is ultimately controlled and owned by SISU, you can see why people say "SISU have invested". CCFC is a shell company, in effect, for SISU investments and decisions. CCFC is, overall, an investment of SISU.

Ah, what compelling evidence! You've got me bang to rights. All because I had a different opinion to you. See post above.

No, all because you sign up and only seem to want to post on certain threads. One of your first posts was to moan about paying for a ticket, in a further post you are a season ticket holder. (Ay, whats all that about). Ah innocent mistake, if he's a season ticket holder then he will surely have comments about the games and not just a particular subject. Right? If it's a new user, surely they won't act as if they know other posters?

Nick · Oct 15, 2018

Greggs said:
But hasn't ours increased significantly over the last 2 seasons? Perhaps it's just the case of it being spent better now. We definitely don't have any 'deadwood' like previous years.

Yeah but I'd say that's where the credit goes to Robins and people like Widdrington.

The money is still available but instead of Ramage, Hunt, Henderson we are bringing in up and coming players. Robins gets that for him to have more money on the pitch the club needs to make more money.

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