Working to Become Financially Independent (3 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jan 13, 2020

Grendel said:
even millennials in the latest poll voted overwhelmingly to keep its - its going nowhere

But with these current scandals (well one proper scandal the other is more hypocrisy of the uber-privileged) and the Queen not getting younger it could well be a different story soon. Phillip has been in poorer health the last few years and if something happens to him, given the Queens age and all the other stuff going on there can be no guarantees as to her health.

Charles isn't anywhere near as popular and also likes to have an opinion on stuff. Republicans will be looking to make hay from this.

Grendel · Jan 13, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But with these current scandals (well one proper scandal the other is more hypocrisy of the uber-privileged) and the Queen not getting younger it could well be a different story soon. Phillip has been in poorer health the last few years and if something happens to him, given the Queens age and all the other stuff going on there can be no guarantees as to her health.

Charles isn't anywhere near as popular and also likes to have an opinion on stuff. Republicans will be looking to make hay from this.

Not a chance this will change

tisza · Jan 13, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But with these current scandals (well one proper scandal the other is more hypocrisy of the uber-privileged) and the Queen not getting younger it could well be a different story soon. Phillip has been in poorer health the last few years and if something happens to him, given the Queens age and all the other stuff going on there can be no guarantees as to her health.

Charles isn't anywhere near as popular and also likes to have an opinion on stuff. Republicans will be looking to make hay from this.

William & kate are strong though. What most believe a Royal couple should be. Doing the charity stuff, producing kids, not rocking the boat.
public support for monarchy hovers around 70%, against 20%, don't knows 10%. Take a lot more than Harry & Megan to break the public support for the monarchy

chiefdave · Jan 13, 2020

How would you even do it though?

Presumably you'd have to have a party with that as a manifesto pledge get in. Then I'm guessing a referendum, and I don't think anyone is keen for another one of those for a while. Then in the highly unlikely event enough people cared enough to vote against having the royals how do you stop it, its not like everything is state owned or people will forget they exist. Do they all go and do exactly what Harry and Meghan are being moaned at for wanting to do?

They'd become the most ridiculously rich and powerful family in the country with nothing to stop Charles or anyone else interfering with anything they liked, would that really be better?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 13, 2020

Grendel said:
even millennials in the latest poll voted overwhelmingly to keep its - its going nowhere

Wonder if I could apply for the banquet eating

tisza · Jan 13, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Wonder if I could apply for the banquet eating

I hear swan's nice

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 13, 2020

Grendel said:
Not a chance this will change

There’s no real appetite for abolishing the monarchy right now. But, Elizabeth II is overwhelmingly popular and has reigned for a long time. Frankly, she has been the model constitutional monarchy.

It could well be the case that a more fragile monarch may not be able to survive a crisis in the future.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 13, 2020

Mucca Mad Boys said:
There’s no real appetite for abolishing the monarchy right now. But, Elizabeth II is overwhelmingly popular and has reigned for a long time. Frankly, she has been the model constitutional monarchy.

It could well be the case that a more fragile monarch may not be able to survive a crisis in the future.

She understood that you get a lot of praise and privilege if you sit back and do the minimum. Charles however has fancied himself as a political activist and would be a car crash of a monarch-though William seems to be wise to the formula

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 13, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
She understood that you get a lot of praise and privilege if you sit back and do the minimum. Charles however has fancied himself as a political activist and would be a car crash of a monarch-though William seems to be wise to the formula

I’d rather a monarch that didn’t intervene and just stick to their constitutional role, performing public duties and so on. If Charles doesn’t have the discipline, then there is a potential crisis looming.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 13, 2020

Mucca Mad Boys said:
I’d rather a monarch that didn’t intervene and just stick to their constitutional role, performing public duties and so on. If Charles doesn’t have the discipline, then there is a potential crisis looming.

I'd rather not rely on a lottery but there we are

Gazolba · Jan 14, 2020

OffenhamSkyBlue said:
<snip>

I do understand that as a white, middle-class, fifty-something male, i am blessed with a certain amount of privilege not afforded to many others, but thanks to those of you who have commented on my earlier post and enlightened me.

<snip>

Exactly what 'privileges' are afforded to white, middle-class people?
When my daughter applied for scholarships to pay for college, there were many scholarships only available to African-Americans or Hispanics. There were absolutely no scholarships available only to white people (and if there were, lawsuits would have been immediately filed).
And it's well-known that many top US colleges and universities give precedence to minority applicants in order to provide enhanced diversity in their student body.
That means better qualified white applicants are denied admittance in favour of less qualified minority students.

shmmeee · Jan 14, 2020

Gazolba said:
Exactly what 'privileges' are afforded to white, middle-class people?
When my daughter applied for scholarships to pay for college, there were many scholarships only available to African-Americans or Hispanics. There were absolutely no scholarships available only to white people (and if there were, lawsuits would have been immediately filed).
And it's well-known that many top US colleges and universities give precedence to minority applicants in order to provide enhanced diversity in their student body.
That means better qualified white applicants are denied admittance in favour of less qualified minority students.

It’s subtle. Men are listened to more at work, there’s lots of evidence of this, they’re seen as more capable and better leaders. Middle class people speak in an elaborate code that makes them appear brighter than equally intelligent working class people.

White people are seen as brighter, more professional, etc.

I’m no fan of positive discrimination, I find it patronising and counterproductive in the long run. But the idea that there’s leagues of well qualified middle class white men on the scrap heap because of it is total nonsense.

OffenhamSkyBlue · Jan 15, 2020

shmmeee said:
It’s subtle. Men are listened to more at work, there’s lots of evidence of this, they’re seen as more capable and better leaders. Middle class people speak in an elaborate code that makes them appear brighter than equally intelligent working class people.

White people are seen as brighter, more professional, etc.

I’m no fan of positive discrimination, I find it patronising and counterproductive in the long run. But the idea that there’s leagues of well qualified middle class white men on the scrap heap because of it is total nonsense.

The latest is Patrick Burns, a true political investigative journalist who used to host the Sunday Politics programme on BBC Midlands, but they have now "refreshed" it, with a younger female presenter.

bezzer · Jan 15, 2020

OffenhamSkyBlue said:
The latest is Patrick Burns, a true political investigative journalist who used to host the Sunday Politics programme on BBC Midlands, but they have now "refreshed" it, with a younger female presenter.

Over the past few months the BBC have had a purge of some of their senior sports reporters. Mark Pougatch, Jonathan Overand and Cornelius Lysaght have all been turfed out for being too old. Lineker, Agnew and Costello must all be looking over their shoulders.......

shmmeee · Jan 15, 2020

bezzer said:
Over the past few months the BBC have had a purge of some of their senior sports reporters. Mark Pougatch, Jonathan Overand and Cornelius Lysaght have all been turfed out for being too old. Lineker, Agnew and Costello must all be looking over their shoulders.......

I wonder if wages aren’t a problem too. The Tory plan to kill the BBC with the wage transparency has been working wonders.

CCFCSteve · Jan 15, 2020

shmmeee said:
I wonder if wages aren’t a problem too. The Tory plan to kill the BBC with the wage transparency has been working wonders.

Can’t blame the Tories mate. There was obviously a gender pay discrepancy at the bbc and also I’d argue many were overpaid. It also feels like because of the wage discrepancy they are addressing this by moving on the more established presenters (an error if they’re good !).

linekar has apparently agreed a reduction in his MOTD salary but I heard is also signing a deal with ITV to present a quiz show so we don’t need to panic that he’ll be on the streets just yet !

tisza · Jan 15, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
She understood that you get a lot of praise and privilege if you sit back and do the minimum. Charles however has fancied himself as a political activist and would be a car crash of a monarch-though William seems to be wise to the formula

Charles got his reputation 20 odd years ago when he started espousing environmental issues.
Back then was sneered at by the media for views on global warming, greenhouse effect, agricultural chemical usage, organic farming, farming welfare standards.
Other causes were free school meals and healthy ones (years before Jamie Oliver) , improved teacher training facilities, sending troops into conflict ill-equipped.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 15, 2020

tisza said:
Charles got his reputation 20 odd years ago when he started espousing environmental issues.
Back then was sneered at by the media for views on global warming, greenhouse effect, agricultural chemical usage, organic farming, farming welfare standards.
Other causes were free school meals and healthy ones (years before Jamie Oliver) , improved teacher training facilities, sending troops into conflict ill-equipped.

Great

shmmeee · Jan 16, 2020

CCFCSteve said:
Can’t blame the Tories mate. There was obviously a gender pay discrepancy at the bbc and also I’d argue many were overpaid. It also feels like because of the wage discrepancy they are addressing this by moving on the more established presenters (an error if they’re good !).

linekar has apparently agreed a reduction in his MOTD salary but I heard is also signing a deal with ITV to present a quiz show so we don’t need to panic that he’ll be on the streets just yet !

The wage transparency thing was entirely designed to kill the BBC through constant Mail articles about overpaid people leading to the talent going elsewhere and gender pay conflicts leading to an increased wage bill. Same as the OAP free licence thing being pushed onto them so they got the backlash and not the government.

It’s frustrating how well it has worked. The BBC has issues but I value an independent news source and I think the country would be poorer without them. The Tories have been gunning for them since they got into power because of perceived bias, now because they’ve stuffed right wingers into all the top jobs the left are pissed as well so they have no support.

Next step will be an optional subscription model at which point they’re a shit Netflix and dead and with it some of the best local reporting around.

CCFCSteve · Jan 16, 2020

I also value it and would be disappointed to see it disappear but you have to remember they do get £3.5bn-£4bn pa and income from sale/leasing of programmes. Surely that’s enough to deliver the news, core services and some great programming, we have all appreciated over the years ?

You can argue about the Tories and the Mail vested interests etc etc (some of it justifiably) but if there aren’t underlying issues it’s irrelevant. It wasn’t the Tories/Mail that were paying unequal salaries, they don’t chose the programming or to remove the over 75 subsidy (the bbc agreed that they would bear the cost of free over 75 licences as part of a wider settlement, they have chosen to remove it).

Some of the programmes can be quite excellent but so much is now filled with dross I wonder where the monies going ! It’s needed to change/improve for years but those in charge either didn’t see it or ignored it.

I suppose the way I judge it is how much do I watch it now ? (For many it might be a bit like when people were up in arms when Woolworths closing but then said they hadn’t shopped there for years)

Hopefully they can turn it round (I think there’s already been some big changes) but if they don’t, those that run it will only have themselves to blame I’m afraid.

ps just checked and total income is over £5bn !

shmmeee · Jan 16, 2020

CCFCSteve said:
I also value it and would be disappointed to see it disappear but you have to remember they do get £3.5bn-£4bn pa and income from sale/leasing of programmes. Surely that’s enough to deliver the news, core services and some great programming, we have all appreciated over the years ?

You can argue about the Tories and the Mail vested interests etc etc (some of it justifiably) but if there aren’t underlying issues it’s irrelevant. It wasn’t the Tories/Mail that were paying unequal salaries, they don’t chose the programming or to remove the over 75 subsidy (the bbc agreed that they would bear the cost of free over 75 licences as part of a wider settlement, they have chosen to remove it).

Some of the programmes can be quite excellent but so much is now filled with dross I wonder where the monies going ! It’s needed to change/improve for years but those in charge either didn’t see it or ignored it.

I suppose the way I judge it is how much do I watch it now ? (For many it might be a bit like when people were up in arms when Woolworths closing but then said they hadn’t shopped there for years)

Hopefully they can turn it round (I think there’s already been some big changes) but if they don’t, those that run it will only have themselves to blame I’m afraid.

ps just checked and total income is over £5bn !

Think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I could see a claim to reduce some of the output and with it reduce or even abolish the licence fee. But I’d worry a BBC running purely on commercial terms wouldn’t be as good or as independent as it is now.

Maybe some kind of centrally funded local reporting service could be created, drop the radio and have clubs do their own commentary (about the only useful thing on local radio). Strip back the national radio to the big 5 stations (take my R4 from my cold dead hands) and cut the TV output to basically BBC One but with the better stuff from the others instead of Cash in the Attic type crap.

I wouldn’t want to lose the educational online content it was so useful when I taught. Though maybe have a centrally funded online education system encompassing OU as well.

But I don’t think that’s the plan. Comes down to trust I guess.

CCFCSteve · Jan 16, 2020

Agree with some of that mate ie cutting back on non core areas. I also think that if the licence fee is abolished they’re done so ideally they’ll be able to up their game to the extent that people are happy enough continuing to pay it (and there isn’t a groundswell for its abolition)

shmmeee · Jan 16, 2020

CCFCSteve said:
Agree with some of that mate ie cutting back on non core areas. I also think that if the licence fee is abolished they’re done so ideally they’ll be able to up their game to the extent that people are happy enough continuing to pay it (and there isn’t a groundswell for its abolition)

It’s about what it prioritises though. The BBC is great because of its public service ethos. If it has to chase advertisers/subscribers and popularity it’ll just be another ITV or Netflix.

Be careful what you wish for is all I’d say. The current Conservatives aren’t being very conservative with the nations institutions and that’s a dangerous game IMO.

CCFCSteve · Jan 16, 2020

As I say, I want the licence fee to remain (as it will die without it). It’s in their hands though !

Terry Gibson's perm · Jan 17, 2020

What I always find disappointing with the bbc is that they must have a massive archive of old sport and comedy which they could put on, saving a fortune and maybe entertaining people

shmmeee · Jan 17, 2020

CCFCSteve said:
As I say, I want the licence fee to remain (as it will die without it). It’s in their hands though !

Then again we are agreed. A smaller licence fee that covers the news programs and some public interest (and R4), commercial deals for entertainment.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 17, 2020

shmmeee said:
Then again we are agreed. A smaller licence fee that covers the news programs and some public interest (and R4), commercial deals for entertainment.

View attachment 13931

I disagree with that. What the BBC should do is make programmes that may not fly, but have an artistic justification. Making it be commercially influenced for entertainment takes that away... and it's already been eroded by how they're judged on 'success', which is very short Germiston

shmmeee · Jan 17, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
I disagree with that. What the BBC should do is make programmes that may not fly, but have an artistic justification. Making it be commercially influenced for entertainment takes that away... and it's already been eroded by how they're judged on 'success', which is very short Germiston

I think there’s room to slim it down and keep the important bits TBH. Each to their own though.

mrtrench · Jan 17, 2020

I heard some branding expert talking about how much their brand might be worth - billions he reckons and far more than he gets from the Duchy and the taxpayer.

Call me old fashioned but in my book that's grifting, not grafting.

Captain Caveman · Jan 17, 2020

The French had the right idea in 1789 about what to do with the royals!

clint van damme · Jan 18, 2020

Terry Gibson's perm said:
What I always find disappointing with the bbc is that they must have a massive archive of old sport and comedy which they could put on, saving a fortune and maybe entertaining people

More repeats?!

OffenhamSkyBlue · Jan 19, 2020

clint van damme said:
More repeats?!

Isn't that Gold and Dave?
I'm with Shhmeeee on having a publicly funded broadcaster to provide the news service (aka BBC News 24 - but to include things like Match of the Day, and other sports current affairs stuff) and subscription for everything else. Their sport offering is currently next-to-useless, gathering up the scraps from the table populated by Sky, BT (increasingly, it seems), Amazon, ITV, ITV4, C4 and even Quest (FFS). If you want to watch snooker or darts, go to the pub!

Having said that, they seriously need to up their game in the current affairs reporting on BBC News (and especially World News). Compared to the likes of France 24, CNN International and especially Al Jazeera, it absolute vacuous lightweight shite!

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