“Lazy” (8 Viewers)

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
A simple forum search for the word “Lazy” between now and mid August, shows that this word has been used to describe the following past and present players. I started to try and keep a tally of the number of times it was used but honestly gave up as it got so numerous for the top two players. Interesting, dont you think?

Player name Number of posts
Hadji Wright >20
Ellis simms >10
Jay Dasilva 5+
Kasey Palmer5+
Yasin Ayari 3
Tyler Walker2
Hamer 1
Josh eccles 1
Stern John1


I’ve know I’ll get railed for this but if anyone is actually interested in thinking critically and open to confronting their own biases, recent studies have indeed highlighted a clear pattern of racial bias in football commentary, which supports the concern that black players are often unfairly criticized or stereotyped in the media.

Studies have clearly demonstrated that black players are often unfairly reduced to and described by their physical attributes, with less focus and emphasis on their cognitive skills and character. Specifically, a study analyzing praise comments for visibly black players found that a significant majority (69.8%) centered on physical attributes, with much lesser emphasis on character (5%) and cognitive skills (4%). [The Conversation]

This bias also extends to how intelligence and attitude are portrayed, with black players more likely to receive criticism for their attitude and less praise for intelligence. Specifically, when discussing intelligence during games, 62% of the praise was aimed at players with lighter skin tones, while 63% of the criticism targeted players with darker skin tones. [The Swaddle]

Another study found that white players are often hailed for their courage and commitment, whereas black players are more likely to be criticized for their attitude and are often reduced to their pace and strength, rather than their overall skill or intelligence. Examples include Pogba being lauded as Lazy, or Yaya Toure, one of the finest technical players in English football, repeatedly referred to as a “powerhouse”. [New Statesman]

Roger Federer (20 grand slams at the time) was a “genius”, Serena Williams (23 grand slams) simple a “phenomenal athlete”.

In addition, a pretty comprehensive review of over 2,000 statements from 80 matches in Europe's top leagues revealed that players with darker skin are frequently reduced to their physical traits in commentary [The Score].

These types of stereotypes can skew our perception and lead to unfair characterizations, like calling a player ‘lazy’ without any objective basis. We need to be mindful of these biases and focus on fair and balanced assessments of all players.


Links:
The Conversation: Racism in football: new research shows media treats black men differently to white men
The Swaddle: Study Says Football Commentators Praise Black Players For Power, White Players for Work Ethic, Leadership
New Statesman: A new study finds evidence of racial bias in football commentary. We cannot ignore it any longer
The score: Study finds racial bias in English-speaking soccer commentary
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
A simple forum search for the word “Lazy” between now and mid August, shows that this word has been used to describe the following past and present players. I started to try and keep a tally of the number of times it was used but honestly gave up as it got so numerous for the top two players. Interesting, dont you think?

Player nameNumber of posts
Hadji Wright>20
Ellis simms>10
Jay Dasilva5+
Kasey Palmer5+
Yasin Ayari3
Tyler Walker2
Hamer1
Josh eccles1
Stern John1


I’ve know I’ll get railed for this but if anyone is actually interested in thinking critically and open to confronting their own biases, recent studies have indeed highlighted a clear pattern of racial bias in football commentary, which supports the concern that black players are often unfairly criticized or stereotyped in the media.

Studies have clearly demonstrated that black players are often unfairly reduced to and described by their physical attributes, with less focus and emphasis on their cognitive skills and character. Specifically, a study analyzing praise comments for visibly black players found that a significant majority (69.8%) centered on physical attributes, with much lesser emphasis on character (5%) and cognitive skills (4%). [The Conversation]

This bias also extends to how intelligence and attitude are portrayed, with black players more likely to receive criticism for their attitude and less praise for intelligence. Specifically, when discussing intelligence during games, 62% of the praise was aimed at players with lighter skin tones, while 63% of the criticism targeted players with darker skin tones. [The Swaddle]

Another study found that white players are often hailed for their courage and commitment, whereas black players are more likely to be criticized for their attitude and are often reduced to their pace and strength, rather than their overall skill or intelligence. Examples include Pogba being lauded as Lazy, or Yaya Toure, one of the finest technical players in English football, repeatedly referred to as a “powerhouse”. [New Statesman]

Roger Federer (20 grand slams at the time) was a “genius”, Serena Williams (23 grand slams) simple a “phenomenal athlete”.

In addition, a pretty comprehensive review of over 2,000 statements from 80 matches in Europe's top leagues revealed that players with darker skin are frequently reduced to their physical traits in commentary [The Score].

These types of stereotypes can skew our perception and lead to unfair characterizations, like calling a player ‘lazy’ without any objective basis. We need to be mindful of these biases and focus on fair and balanced assessments of all players.


Links:
The Conversation: Racism in football: new research shows media treats black men differently to white men
The Swaddle: Study Says Football Commentators Praise Black Players For Power, White Players for Work Ethic, Leadership
New Statesman: A new study finds evidence of racial bias in football commentary. We cannot ignore it any longer
The score: Study finds racial bias in English-speaking soccer commentary

To be fair Roger has always been described as elegant , Williams and djokovik both described as immense athletes .

Pele was described as the greatest ever for years and years too btw .

But I have no doubt that the term Lazy is used sometimes because of race


However , if a player is Lazy or putting less in than their teammates.. then people should be able to call that out, black or white
 

TomS91

Well-Known Member
A simple forum search for the word “Lazy” between now and mid August, shows that this word has been used to describe the following past and present players. I started to try and keep a tally of the number of times it was used but honestly gave up as it got so numerous for the top two players. Interesting, dont you think?

Player nameNumber of posts
Hadji Wright>20
Ellis simms>10
Jay Dasilva5+
Kasey Palmer5+
Yasin Ayari3
Tyler Walker2
Hamer1
Josh eccles1
Stern John1


I’ve know I’ll get railed for this but if anyone is actually interested in thinking critically and open to confronting their own biases, recent studies have indeed highlighted a clear pattern of racial bias in football commentary, which supports the concern that black players are often unfairly criticized or stereotyped in the media.

Studies have clearly demonstrated that black players are often unfairly reduced to and described by their physical attributes, with less focus and emphasis on their cognitive skills and character. Specifically, a study analyzing praise comments for visibly black players found that a significant majority (69.8%) centered on physical attributes, with much lesser emphasis on character (5%) and cognitive skills (4%). [The Conversation]

This bias also extends to how intelligence and attitude are portrayed, with black players more likely to receive criticism for their attitude and less praise for intelligence. Specifically, when discussing intelligence during games, 62% of the praise was aimed at players with lighter skin tones, while 63% of the criticism targeted players with darker skin tones. [The Swaddle]

Another study found that white players are often hailed for their courage and commitment, whereas black players are more likely to be criticized for their attitude and are often reduced to their pace and strength, rather than their overall skill or intelligence. Examples include Pogba being lauded as Lazy, or Yaya Toure, one of the finest technical players in English football, repeatedly referred to as a “powerhouse”. [New Statesman]

Roger Federer (20 grand slams at the time) was a “genius”, Serena Williams (23 grand slams) simple a “phenomenal athlete”.

In addition, a pretty comprehensive review of over 2,000 statements from 80 matches in Europe's top leagues revealed that players with darker skin are frequently reduced to their physical traits in commentary [The Score].

These types of stereotypes can skew our perception and lead to unfair characterizations, like calling a player ‘lazy’ without any objective basis. We need to be mindful of these biases and focus on fair and balanced assessments of all players.


Links:
The Conversation: Racism in football: new research shows media treats black men differently to white men
The Swaddle: Study Says Football Commentators Praise Black Players For Power, White Players for Work Ethic, Leadership
New Statesman: A new study finds evidence of racial bias in football commentary. We cannot ignore it any longer
The score: Study finds racial bias in English-speaking soccer commentary
Good post and a topic I think of regularly in relation to Wright this year, and Palmer last year.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
I made this point a few weeks ago and got jumped on.

It's a clear problem, not just on this forum but in football in general.

And a lot of it is subconscious. I don't think that most of the people calling a black player lazy are intentionally being racist, but it's a subconscious stereotype.
 
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oscillatewildly

Well-Known Member
I made this point a few weeks ago and got jumped on.

It's a clear problem, not just on this forum but in football in general.

And a lot of it is subconscious. I don't think that most of the people calling a black player lazy are intentionally being racist, but it's a subconscious stereotype.
'Subconscious'. Lazy and convenient 'explanation'.
 

Martin180

Well-Known Member
Even one of the pioneers of black footballers showed his " standpoint " when he thought he was off camera . That being Ron Atkinson
I wonder if any poster on here honestly when he looks at a white player underperforming instantly thinks he's lazy?
It's really is something we should be talking about , we live in 2023 and not 1973 yet society still has deep seated stereotypes
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Even one of the pioneers of black footballers showed his " standpoint " when he thought he was off camera . That being Ron Atkinson
I wonder if any poster on here honestly when he looks at a white player underperforming instantly thinks he's lazy?
It's really is something we should be talking about , we live in 2023 and not 1973 yet society still has deep seated stereotypes

Huckerby was always branded lazy - many show players from the 70’s often were labelled as such

Peter Barnes was appallingly lazy in terms of work rate and effort
 

Blind-Faith

Well-Known Member
Even one of the pioneers of black footballers showed his " standpoint " when he thought he was off camera . That being Ron Atkinson
I wonder if any poster on here honestly when he looks at a white player underperforming instantly thinks he's lazy?
It's really is something we should be talking about , we live in 2023 and not 1973 yet society still has deep seated stereotypes

Tired Good Night GIF
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
The ‘lazy’ accusation is ironically, a lazy trope to make by a lot of football fans.

Forwards get it more often because they’re waiting to make their move and it’s easy to single them out if they’re not chasing the ball down.

Wright and Simms in particular have come in as big money signings and that, I’m afraid has put a big target on their backs too. They’ll win over the fans, just you wait.
 

oscillatewildly

Well-Known Member
Huckerby was always branded lazy - many show players from the 70’s often were labelled as such

Peter Barnes was appallingly lazy in terms of work rate and effort
Add to that, Paul Cook. I used to find his performances infuriating towards the end of his time with us.
 

oscillatewildly

Well-Known Member
The ‘lazy’ accusation is ironically, a lazy trope to make by a lot of football fans.

Forwards get it more often because they’re waiting to make their move and it’s easy to single them out if they’re not chasing the ball down.

Wright and Simms in particular have come in as big money signings and that, I’m afraid has put a big target on their backs too. They’ll win over the fans, just you wait.
See, we've already waited too lonnnnnnnng - and all our hope is gone.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
It’s a meme on here, but memes happen for a reason. Like me saying Jamie Allen just runs about. Then they take life when people keep conforming to them.

You can’t deny that black players get called lazy more, it’s right there in black and white and anecdotally it’s been noticeable for years, going back in my mind to the likes of Bothroyd and Best but perhaps further.

So you’ve got to explain the data really, if it’s not bias, surely you’re arguing black players are just lazier. Is that fair?
 

SkyblueTexan

Well-Known Member
Many of us, including myself, have been guilty of calling Wright lazy on occasion. Although I recognize he's black, the things about Wright that really get on my nerve are the facts that he:
1) Often times gives away the ball cheaply and makes a token attempt to win it back or no effort at all.
2) Is easily dispossessed of the ball despite his imposing physical stature
3) Has poor control/technique and awareness of those around him
4) Has missed so many gilt-edged chances that he basically needs an open goal in order to score
I cannot fathom how we paid so much for a player of such low quality/calibre. I feel he has been given sufficient time to adjust, but don't see the sufficient returns on our investment. What's the problem? Why is he not applying himself? Is he just going through the motions?

I feel it also merits mentioning that some of my biggest idols growing up were Dublin, Regis, Bennett who are/were black. I think we can agree that they possessed both the physical attributes of strength and/or agility and were intelligent enough to know how to use these attributes to their advantage. That's all I want and expect of Wright.
 

Martin180

Well-Known Member
Many of us, including myself, have been guilty of calling Wright lazy on occasion. Although I recognize he's black, the things about Wright that really get on my nerve are the facts that he:
1) Often times gives away the ball cheaply and makes a token attempt to win it back or no effort at all.
2) Is easily dispossessed of the ball despite his imposing physical stature
3) Has poor control/technique and awareness of those around him
4) Has missed so many gilt-edged chances that he basically needs an open goal in order to score
I cannot fathom how we paid so much for a player of such low quality/calibre. I feel he has been given sufficient time to adjust, but don't see the sufficient returns on our investment. What's the problem? Why is he not applying himself? Is he just going through the motions?

I feel it also merits mentioning that some of my biggest idols growing up were Dublin, Regis, Bennett who are/were black. I think we can agree that they possessed both the physical attributes of strength and/or agility and were intelligent enough to know how to use these attributes to their advantage. That's all I want and expect of Wright.
None of that explains the lazy tag of Wright and others
 

SkyblueTexan

Well-Known Member
None of that explains the lazy tag of Wright and others
I was merely speaking for myself with regard to my opinion of Wright who I have said appears to be lazy at times or not trying hard enough. I wasn't trying explain the lazy tag for everyone on the list.
 

Johhny Blue

Well-Known Member
Tommy Hutchison was one of the laziest players we’ve ever had. Hardly broke a sweat or got into second gear. Just walked his way through some of the best defenders on the planet
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
Disheartening if not at all surprising to see the level of dismissiveness and outright hostility towards a topic that is not only valid but crucial in understanding the dynamics of a pattern within football thats been substantiated by research and personal experiences shared by many

To those resorting to insults - your reactions are actually part of the problem. Brushing it off with offensive remarks or telling me to 'get a life' doesn't diminish the reality of racial bias in sports commentary— just highlights your unwillingness to confront uncomfortable truths. This isn't about stirring the pot, it's about addressing a systemic issue that's all too real for the players who experience it

The defensiveness and aggression actually reveals more than perhaps intended. It's easier to attack the messenger than to face the message, especially when it challenges ingrained perceptions. It's easy to sit behind a screen and throw insults, but it takes a bit of bravery and integrity to engage in meaningful self-reflection.

I stand by my original post. If it makes you uncomfortable, ask yourself why. We can't claim to love football while ignoring or trivializing issues that taint its integrity
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
I fail to see how anyone can ever take the op of this thread seriously ever again.
lol nobody every took you seriously. Didn’t you challenge some to a boxing match on the internet? That was after you compared vaccine requirements to the holocaust :)

Unsurprisingly your comment sidesteps the issue. Is there something specific in the data or research presented that you disagree with?
 

TomRad85

Well-Known Member
It’s a meme on here, but memes happen for a reason. Like me saying Jamie Allen just runs about. Then they take life when people keep conforming to them.

You can’t deny that black players get called lazy more, it’s right there in black and white and anecdotally it’s been noticeable for years, going back in my mind to the likes of Bothroyd and Best but perhaps further.

So you’ve got to explain the data really, if it’s not bias, surely you’re arguing black players are just lazier. Is that fair?
I never really describe any players as lazy but Bothroyd, he actually was lazy as fuck wasn't he.
Does it get used against black players more and unfairly so? Probably yes.
Should people be afraid of using the term if a black player does appear to be 'lazy'? Seems silly.
From my side I think I'm guilty of positive discrimination against black forwards in particular... I always assume they'll be better.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

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