22k break even myth !!!! (1 Viewer)

[sky blue john]

I have noticed the likes of Rfc and Grendel using this card lately.

Currently the only reason that this would be a break even figure is to keep up with Sisu's legal costs !!!!

At the time though the wage bill was massive to what it is now !!!!!

 

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[ESB]

it was at the original rent levels

 

[italiahorse]

I have noticed the likes of Rfc and Grendel using this card lately.

Currently the only reason that this would be a break even figure is to keep up with Sisu's legal costs !!!!

At the time though the wage bill was massive to what it is now !!!!!

The rent was £1.2M a year yet we have run up losses of £60M ???
Profit after costs deducted on F&B was 120K a year ???
Look elsewhere for the losses.

These people just use statements without backup to try and justify SISU mismanagement.

 

[RFC]

Those figures are based on the original rent figure, £1:28 million!

 

[Mick Scoop]

And a wage bill of?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Yep that would do it 6 million rent and £54 million on wages and transfers in 5 years?

Those figures are based on the original rent figure, £1:28 million!

 

[bigfatronssba]

If it takes 22k fans to pay a £1.2m a year rent, then that means each ticket sold generated £2.37!

Using that same ratio then, the clubs current ticket income for the year will be £109k!

What Bullshit!

 

[letsallsingtogether]

That is what sisu told us so it must be true.

If it takes 22k fans to pay a £1.2m a year rent, then that means each ticket sold generated £2.37!

Using that same ratio then, the clubs current ticket income for the year will be £109k!

What Bullshit!

 

[oldskyblue58]

also break even was based on wages between 7.1m in 2005 7.1 in 2006 and 9.8m in 2007.

Turnovers were 8.7m in 2005 9.9m in 2006 and 9.7m in 2007

In my mind the problems were yes the rent being too high but the bigger factor was paying out too much in wages.

It is in a sense ironic that having very little in turnover and a small wage bill (what 2m?) that people are claiming we are playing the best football in years ....... kind of begs the question what was the real problem in previous years doesnt it?

 

[torchomatic]

Yes. it does. When we were relegated in 2001 our wages were 125% or turnover.

People soon change their tune and are desperate to blame the club for our woes - even before SISU. People moan about wages but they still want to see Dublin, Huckerby, Keane, etc They want loads of players and moan when we sell them.

also break even is based on wages between 7.1m in 2005 7.1 in 2006 and 9.8m in 2007.

Turnovers were 8.7m in 2005 9.9m in 2006 and 9.7m in 2007

In my mind the problems were yes the rent being too high but the bigger factor was paying out too much in wages.

It is in a sense ironic that having very little in turnover and a small wage bill (what 2m?) that people are claiming we are playing the best football in years ....... kind of begs the question what was the real problem in previous years doesnt it?

 

[Noggin]

Those figures are based on the original rent figure, £1:28 million!

If the rent at the ricoh had been the same as the rent at sixfields (which is a ludicrous suggestion given their differences) it would have still taken 19k fans to break even using those figures.

The rent was too high but it was still a small percentage of the costs and certainly not the main problem.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I believe the rent at Sixfields is £300,000 not bad really for all the facilities they have? Still do not get any pie or car park money!
So work it out I can't be bothered
£1.4 million with 12,000 fans average price while at the Ricoh was £25,00 plus all shop sales
£300,000 with 2,500 fans average price while there will be £15,00 plus shop sales

If the rent at the ricoh had been the same as the rent at sixfields (which is a ludicrous suggestion given their differences) it would have still taken 19k fans to break even using those figures.

The rent was too high but it was still a small percentage of the costs and certainly not the main problem.

 

[sky blue john]

I would hazard a guess but a return to the ricoh at 300k rent with no f&b on current wages.
Would be a profit situation for Sisu !!!!!

 

[oldskyblue58]

So breakeven now is ?( ...... just an example because it is all guess work )

say current costs were (ie at sixfields)

Player and other wages £2.5m
Academy costs £500k
Training ground costs £250k
utilities etc £250K
Interest payable £1m
Other costs (marketing, match costs etc) £250k

Total 4.75m

now say we retained that cost structure at the Ricoh (ie something like rent say £150k minimal match day costs as at Sixfields)

at £18 per ticket (net of VAT) and 23 games thats a breakeven crowd of 11474 per match ....... if based on ticket sales alone ........... which of course it isnt. Any other income (prize money TV money, Sponsorship, advertising, merchandise) brings the number required through the gate down.

Capacity at Sixfields 7653

like i say just a for instance

 

[NorthernWisdom]

In my mind the problems were yes the rent being too high but the bigger factor was paying out too much in wages.

Any sane business would cut costs and maximise chance to spend on wages however.

It was where Mutton's comments about SISU not spending on the team was crazy talk, what did he expect them to do?!? Surely cutting back wages was entirely sensible?!?

And the point about the 22k average was exactly was that it was such a crazy figure, when we were being treated to the likes of Paul Watson in the team, just to cobble together a side.

 

[oldskyblue58]

any sane business wouldnt spend more on wages than they had coming in though NW. Think we are singing from the same page though arent we

Think the expectations of some including a certain ex Council leader never got in to gear with the logic of what their heads were actually telling them. Over paying players (average to poor ones at that in our case) was never going to be sustainable. Personally think that what SISU/TF/SW have done this season on the wages was entirely the right approach ...... doing it 35 miles away isnt though

 

[sky blue john]

Its made the situation of wage cutting and competing easier by being in league one.
It would have been a different proposition in the championship, to compete anyway !!!

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Think we are singing from the same page though arent we

We are indeed

It's the typical expectation though, and how just about every new owner curries favour to vbegin with. Spend some cash on players, defer how to actually pay for them until a later date, hope it's someone else's problem!

 

[Grendel]

And a wage bill of?

Not enough to secure a top 6 finish or do you advocate player sales and squad reduction?

 

[ccfcmustang]

With my beloved club playing the way we are at the minute, with a manager rebuilding from the bottom, i couldnt care less about any of this shit anymore. Im Behind my team PUSB

 

[ccfcmustang]

Anyway, we will be promoted and back at the ricoh by June. Fact

 

[dongonzalos]

I have noticed the likes of Rfc and Grendel using this card lately.

Currently the only reason that this would be a break even figure is to keep up with Sisu's legal costs !!!!

At the time though the wage bill was massive to what it is now !!!!!

I assume it would be not be anywhere near that if SISU negotiated a long term sliding scale rent based on attendances, including that 80% F&B.

I guess the key comment is sliding scale including based on attendances.

I really struggle and so nobody on here has been able to explain how building our own stadium could be financially better for CCFC than agree a long term rent in these terms.

 

[RFC]

If it takes 22k fans to pay a £1.2m a year rent, then that means each ticket sold generated £2.37!

Using that same ratio then, the clubs current ticket income for the year will be £109k!

What Bullshit!

The break-even figure includes all costs staff & player wages as well as rent etc. etc. etc

 

[Captain Dart]

also break even was based on wages between 7.1m in 2005 7.1 in 2006 and 9.8m in 2007.

Turnovers were 8.7m in 2005 9.9m in 2006 and 9.7m in 2007

In my mind the problems were yes the rent being too high but the bigger factor was paying out too much in wages.

It is in a sense ironic that having very little in turnover and a small wage bill (what 2m?) that people are claiming we are playing the best football in years ....... kind of begs the question what was the real problem in previous years doesnt it?

What woould you estimate the wages are now most higher paid players have gone and onfield squad is 50% recent academy players..
I think run with todays outgoings that the club would be profitable in this leage at the Ricoh paying £150K rent, taking a cut of F&B + parking and getting lapsed sponsership renewed.

 

[bigfatronssba]

The break-even figure includes all costs staff & player wages as well as rent etc. etc. etc

Hallelujah! Got you to admit it.

So you agree the rent was just a small part of the clubs financial problems?

 

[bigfatronssba]

With my beloved club playing the way we are at the minute, with a manager rebuilding from the bottom, i couldnt care less about any of this shit anymore. Im Behind my team PUSB

So to you results are more important than getting back to Coventry?

I would rather lose every week at the Ricoh than continue with this charade any longer.

 

[oldskyblue58]

well isnt average league 1 wages somewhere between 1400 and 1800 per week per player. We have a first team squad of 19? that would give £1.8m at 1800pw add on the other salaries, academy, coaches, managers, staff, directors etc would a total of £2.5m to 3m be too far out?

Hard to tell though in truth

last accounts 2011 for CCFC Ltd showed match day income at £3.9m average crowds that season 16309. Successful team there and it could improve attendances in this division above 11000. That might indicate ticket sales of 2.6m and above.

Commercial sales in 2011 were over 6m. It is possible to imagine a breakeven on the basis you suggest certainly.

The problem might be the leap in salaries should the club be promoted

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Well, the interesting thing is..... If we were to be promoted, I could see our owners not significantly investing in anyone, ie to keep the wages the same. They have a very tight cost structure now, a year in the championship would yield significant league income compared to that paid to tier three teams...and possibly a healthy profit for Sisu? If they are going to take the hit in this division (ie low gates) then why not in the championship...why increase expenditure?

So we become a yo yo team like West brom? Sisu banking the money as we bounce up and down...?

 

[Mick Scoop]

Not enough to secure a top 6 finish or do you advocate player sales and squad reduction?

Yes as Mr Pressley has proven so far this season we don't need over rated and overpaid players to build a good promotion pushing team and why do you assume we will not finish in the top six?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It'd be no surprise to see Baker and co on £8k a week...

 

[shmmeee]

It'd be no surprise to see Baker and co on £8k a week...

Baker and Murphy are AFAIK the only players not signed under the current board. Knowing Delieu you're probably not far off. Clarke's an interesting one because he was signed around the time the rent row kicked off, so I wonder what the strategy was at the time. He could be on a bit if they were still eyeing promotion, but how far ahead had they planned and did they expect to lose ten points and be playing away from Cov at that point?

 

[torchomatic]

Richardson did.

any sane business wouldnt spend more on wages than they had coming in though NW.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Previous owners bear some responsibility for this mess-agreed..... but SISU have been in charge for almost 6 years Torch- where is their plan- all I see is wreckage.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yet they still complain about SISU 'asset stripping' or merely reducing the wage bill to a realistic level.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Baker and Murphy are AFAIK the only players not signed under the current board. Knowing Delieu you're probably not far off.

All I know is Ranson certainly didn't underpay in some instances.