Do you want to discuss boring politics? (40 Viewers)

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JAM See

JAM See

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
On a slightly unrelated topic, I found myself switching over to GB News this morning. Call it morbid interest, or maybe an attempt to avoid the leftie woke echo chamber of government-funded or billionaire-owned news channels. 😁

Anyhow... some observations:

The presenters are astonishingly young and incompetent, and it's so, so cheap. Regardless...

They were raging, and I mean much more overtly angry than you'd see on the BBC, about the obscene profits of the utility companies, and the vast salaries of their senior executives.

It was, way, way beyond what anyone in the current Labour party would say, that's for sure.

There's something here that I can't quite put my finger on.

The people that watch this stuff see exactly the same issue here that exercises lefties like me, and yet vote for parties who will certainly do nothing about it.

They also clearly don't believe that Labour will do much either.

It was a genuinely interesting watch for twenty minutes or so. The adverts suggest that their core audience is old, white, people who mostly want a cheap caravan somewhere for their holidays. My folks, as was, basically!
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Thanks for the intel agent duffer.

Have you fully decontaminated yet?
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Sorry but if you have to put scare quotes around standard Labour faction descriptions I have to question how much you understand Labour internal politics. If you think the soft left and the right are the same you’ll never win a single leadership election. Soft left win every one as they’re by far the biggest faction.

I’m not sure how in my walls of text repeatedly going “the left need to put their big boy pants on and take elections seriously because their policy is fine” you’ve managed to get “I don’t think any left wing policy can win” TBH.

I’m saying you can’t have everything all at once fronted by a crank with zero credibility who gets visibly angry every time he’s asked to do basic politics.

Is that all the left has? Joke politicians? Is it incapable of getting past a permanent victim complex and refusal to look in the mirror or face voters after a defeat like everyone else? None of these things are about policy. Just basic political hygiene.
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I think you're missing my point entirely. They're not scare quotes, they're punctuation. And let's not get into personal stuff about understanding Labour or the left, I've supported the party for forty years, I think I've got at least some insight.

Let's recap.

You said there are no credible politicians of the left.

I pointed out that your hero of the credible, Starmer, was in fact elected leader when he openly supported left-ish policies.

Then you seemed to say that Starmer needed to recant from those pledges/policies to get elected.

Have I misunderstood?
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
JAM See said:
Thanks for the intel agent duffer.

Have you fully decontaminated yet?
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I gave it another ten minutes at lunchtime. Worrying, I know.

I think I'm getting it now. GB News obviously dislikes anything Labour, but it absolutely hates the Conservatives (too left-wing, obviously). It's bizarre.

Adverts: Deals on cremation and a limited edition King Charles and the Dragon Sovereign. If anyone is paying more than £50 to film and air these ads, they're being shafted. 😄
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
So the Tories took a kicking in both by-elections yesterday, with enormous swings to Labour.

However ... as has been the case in many of the recent by-elections in this Parliament, the result is not as stunning for Starmer as they are suggesting, in my view: In Wellingborough, the number of votes cast for the (winning) Labour candidate yesterday (I would, by the way!!) were pretty much identical, give or take a couple of hundred, to those cast for the (losing) Labour candidate at the 2019 GE. The difference was that the Tory voters didn't show (32,277 in 2019 to 7,408 yesterday).
That is a consequence of the turnout (65% in 2019 vs 38% yesterday), which is often the case for "mid-term" by-elections.

The Tories were batshit crazy to nominate that dickhead Bone's partner as their candidate in the same bloody constituency he got recalled in - she was part of his toxic legacy.

In Kingswood, the number of people who voted for the winning Labour candidate was 5,000 FEWER than for the loser in 2019 (turnout 37% and 71%, respectively.

In both cases, if Starmer and Labour were THAT popular, wouldn't you expect to see more people turning up to vote for them at a by-election? It's not all about percentages and swings, and if Labour DON'T get more actual people showing up next time round, they might get a shock!
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From living in the Wellingborough constituency Labour were very active with their leafleting, door knocking and general presence throughout. The Tories barely made an effort, and a lot of locals were very unhappy at the candidate selection. Reform made more of an effort, and they’re fucking bonkers!
 
O

OffenhamSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
From living in the Wellingborough constituency Labour were very active with their leafleting, door knocking and general presence throughout. The Tories barely made an effort, and a lot of locals were very unhappy at the candidate selection. Reform made more of an effort, and they’re fucking bonkers!
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I take your point. I don't quite understand why the Tories have given up fielding electable candidates in some of their heartlands. This Bone-lite woman is one case, but another was in the Mid Beds constituency vacated by the lunatic Dorries - they decided to put their weight behind the guy who was the least popular police and crime commissioner in living memory (and i include the current clown for West Mercia in that). He also happens to be black, which wouldn't have helped his cause in the minds of the mostly white bigots of the Shires. He got a spanking and hasn't been heard of since.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
I take your point. I don't quite understand why the Tories have given up fielding electable candidates in some of their heartlands. This Bone-lite woman is one case, but another was in the Mid Beds constituency vacated by the lunatic Dorries - they decided to put their weight behind the guy who was the least popular police and crime commissioner in living memory (and i include the current clown for West Mercia in that). He also happens to be black, which wouldn't have helped his cause in the minds of the mostly white bigots of the Shires. He got a spanking and hasn't been heard of since.
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Have they given up fielding electable candidates or have the electable candidates decided they want nothing to do with it?!
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
From living in the Wellingborough constituency Labour were very active with their leafleting, door knocking and general presence throughout. The Tories barely made an effort, and a lot of locals were very unhappy at the candidate selection. Reform made more of an effort, and they’re fucking bonkers!
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The share of the reform vote is interesting and it’s likely some deal with Tice and Farage will be struck before the election
 
fatso

fatso

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Check out the audience at Tetchy's little GB News event the other day!

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Says it all when people would rather vote for a party with no plan and no clue instead of having the Tories in power for another term.

How bad must Sunak be!
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
fatso said:
Says it all when people would rather vote for a party with no plan and no clue instead of having the Tories in power for another term.

How bad must Sunak be!
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They do have a plan.

Whether you like it or agree with it is a different matter, but they do have a plan:

labour.org.uk

Missions – The Labour Party

Labour's five missions to get Britain's future back.
labour.org.uk labour.org.uk


Stop listening to Rishi 😉
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
They do have a plan.

Whether you like it or agree with it is a different matter, but they do have a plan:

labour.org.uk

Missions – The Labour Party

Labour's five missions to get Britain's future back.
labour.org.uk labour.org.uk


Stop listening to Rishi
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This is not a plan, these are just a set of high level sound bites, they're barely even smart objectives. You'd hear exactly he same sort of thing from the Tories.

A Labour government will:

Cut waiting times by giving the NHS the staff and technology it needs.
End the 8am scramble for GP appointments and giving patients a choice of appointments in person or on the phone.
Improve cancer survival rates and reduce deaths from heart disease and suicide.
More care in the community so patients aren’t stuck in hospital.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
S

StrettoBoy

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
This is not a plan, these are just a set of high level sound bites, they're barely even smart objectives. You'd hear exactly he same sort of thing from the Tories.

A Labour government will:

Cut waiting times by giving the NHS the staff and technology it needs.
End the 8am scramble for GP appointments and giving patients a choice of appointments in person or on the phone.
Improve cancer survival rates and reduce deaths from heart disease and suicide.
More care in the community so patients aren’t stuck in hospital.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
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Motherhood and apple pie stuff.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
So the Tories took a kicking in both by-elections yesterday, with enormous swings to Labour.

However ... as has been the case in many of the recent by-elections in this Parliament, the result is not as stunning for Starmer as they are suggesting, in my view: In Wellingborough, the number of votes cast for the (winning) Labour candidate yesterday (I would, by the way!!) were pretty much identical, give or take a couple of hundred, to those cast for the (losing) Labour candidate at the 2019 GE. The difference was that the Tory voters didn't show (32,277 in 2019 to 7,408 yesterday).
That is a consequence of the turnout (65% in 2019 vs 38% yesterday), which is often the case for "mid-term" by-elections.

The Tories were batshit crazy to nominate that dickhead Bone's partner as their candidate in the same bloody constituency he got recalled in - she was part of his toxic legacy.

In Kingswood, the number of people who voted for the winning Labour candidate was 5,000 FEWER than for the loser in 2019 (turnout 37% and 71%, respectively.

In both cases, if Starmer and Labour were THAT popular, wouldn't you expect to see more people turning up to vote for them at a by-election? It's not all about percentages and swings, and if Labour DON'T get more actual people showing up next time round, they might get a shock!
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Why would people care that much about a by-election that is likely a few months before a full GE?

However, I do think the overall feeling from them rings true. Labour not really gaining support, just the Tories losing it.

That's why, although I think Labour will win the election it won't be anywhere near the margins some people are expecting. Tories won't get 'wiped out'. When push comes to shove many of the traditional Tory voters will go and put their X in the box as they normally do, purely for fear of having Labour.
 
O

OffenhamSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Why would people care that much about a by-election that is likely a few months before a full GE?

However, I do think the overall feeling from them rings true. Labour not really gaining support, just the Tories losing it.

That's why, although I think Labour will win the election it won't be anywhere near the margins some people are expecting. Tories won't get 'wiped out'. When push comes to shove many of the traditional Tory voters will go and put their X in the box as they normally do, purely for fear of having Labour.
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I agree - polling companies rarely seem to use methods which capture the whole population (especially the older, perhaps Tory-biased people) because they focus on online polling. It's like asking us to believe that the views (on pretty much any subject you care to mention) expressed on social media platforms (especially Twitter) are remotely representative of the population as a whole. It skews people's thinking.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The share of the reform vote is interesting and it’s likely some deal with Tice and Farage will be struck before the election
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The Reform candidate made a lot of noise about wanting to take down the Tories, but as you’ve suggested I imagine they will quieten down if the right deal is done.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
The Reform candidate made a lot of noise about wanting to take down the Tories, but as you’ve suggested I imagine they will quieten down if the right deal is done.
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In Kingswood the combined vote was higher than labour
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I think he may have missed the point as to WHY there was a financial crisis. People doing stupid, unsustainable things to inflate an economy beyond what is actually feasible.
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Which of the normal growth suggestions are stupid and unsustainable? Arguably the GFC was caused by lack of proper growth and everyone betting on housing instead.

Usual ideas:
- Closer ties to the EU for trade
- Massive housebuilding program
- Simplified planning system
- Education investment
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
In Kingswood the combined vote was higher than labour
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🤣

Even you can’t believe “if you combined two different parties they beat a single party” is a serious argument.

Wait until you hear about my grandmas potential as a revolutionary green transport 🤣 🤣
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
In Kingswood the combined vote was higher than labour
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7QMrMKxk2i7H.gif
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Which of the normal growth suggestions are stupid and unsustainable? Arguably the GFC was caused by lack of proper growth and everyone betting on housing instead.

Usual ideas:
- Closer ties to the EU for trade
- Massive housebuilding program
- Simplified planning system
- Education investment
Click to expand...
At some point in time the UK needs a commercial and domestic property price correction, the sort that should have occurred post GFC but didn't.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
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