Forthcoming General Election (1 Viewer)

[Grendel]

Potentially this is where the Labour Party has shot itself in the foot by acting now however.

Then again, if they think Corbyn isn't capable of articulating all that in a general election, best they get the pain out the way now...

How do yuk reconcile your left wing views with your view on the EU? Corbyn would, if brave enough, have voted leave. Most hard line socialists from the past - foot, benn, Crowe, nellist are all anti EU.

On this issue you are more Blairite - why?

 

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[NorthernWisdom]

How do yuk reconcile your left wing views with your view on the EU? Corbyn would, if brave enough, have voted leave. Most hard line socialists from the past - foot, benn, Crowe, nellist are all anti EU.

On this issue you are more Blairite - why?

I think you misread me. I've always said there's a left wing argument to be made for exit... but nobody bothered to make it, and gave the ground to the right wing.

My own personal view is ambivalent, willing to be persuaded either way (there is also a left wing argument to be made for staying. As ever, there are usually many sides of the same coin)... but the right wing scaremongering and focus on immigration meant it had to be the status quo.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I think you misread me. I've always said there's a left wing argument to be made for exit... but nobody bothered to make it, and gave the ground to the right wing.

My own personal view is ambivalent, willing to be persuaded either way (there is also a left wing argument to be made for staying. As ever, there are usually many sides of the same coin)... but the right wing scaremongering and focus on immigration meant it had to be the status quo.

Apologies for crashing in....but that does suggest you've potentially voted against your instincts for fear of being tarred with the same brush as the minority (albeit sizable) of knuckle-dragging racists voting leave.....

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Apologies for crashing in....but that does suggest you've potentially voted against your instincts for fear of being tarred with the same brush as the minority (albeit sizable) of knuckle-dragging racists voting leave.....

Nope.

Nobody has made a case to leave... in my view (note these three words, passing mentalists!).

How can I be persuaded to leave, when I am told the 'benefits' are things that I disagree with?

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Nope.

Nobody has made a case to leave... in my view (note these three words, passing mentalists!).

How can I be persuaded to leave, when I am told the 'benefits' are things that I disagree with?

Fair enough......clear enough......I'll try not to interrupt further....

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It's worth noting that there was and is an inherant contradiction between political ideologies and Europe, anyway. I see no reason why a progressive left position can't reconcile itself to membership of the EU, although I'd like there to be more allowance for state aid and support, personally, but surely a full left wing argument would go further than the EU does, and encourage closer ties, and more redistribution to neglected areas in favour of the wealthy?

(In microcosm, take from London to give to Willenhall!)

Meanwhile, a right wing free market would surely encourage immigration, and there'd be a natural check anyway when it came to saturation point, with people bogging off again.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

And as for Corbyn, whatever his own views he's shown himself incapable of leadership over this issue. Even if he were ambivalent to staying or leaving, having once declared for one position, he should have been making sure everyone knew the benefits of it.

*No* position is 100% milk and honey, but you have to at least articulate the good bits that show why you've decided to go for that position, else why bother at all.

 

[Ashdown]

It's worth noting that there was and is an inherant contradiction between political ideologies and Europe, anyway. I see no reason why a progressive left position can't reconcile itself to membership of the EU, although I'd like there to be more allowance for state aid and support, personally, but surely a full left wing argument would go further than the EU does, and encourage closer ties, and more redistribution to neglected areas in favour of the wealthy?

(In microcosm, take from London to give to Willenhall!)

Meanwhile, a right wing free market would surely encourage immigration, and there'd be a natural check anyway when it came to saturation point, with people bogging off again.

You live in Willenhall now then ?!

 

[NorthernWisdom]

You live in Willenhall now then ?!

Close

But also irrelevant. I could pick many areas around the country couldn't I, but doesn't mean I have to live there.

 

[Ashdown]

I was jesting but I do agree with you that there should be a more equal and fitting redistribution of wealth and power from London. It needs to be done by relocating parts of central government, providing grants and initiatives to companies to relocate headquarters etc

 

[Monners]

We did have regional government offices until the 2010 election, but these went iup in smoke in the bonfire of the quangos. They were supposedly replaced by Local Enterprise Partnerships, but these have a much narrower focus. Both were/are funded primarily from EU funding (including funding schemes).

But yes, it is clear that the rest of England feels disenfranchised by the London centric bias that clearly exists.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yep. I love Hilary Benn. I'm in PLP and like Corbyn but if we are to have any chance of defeating Tories then a new leader will have to be found to fight Boris as I think he'll be the new PM

Exciting times. I love politics!

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I have been in Labour Party for 33 years. Was a mad Socialist Worker type in the 80s, begrudgingly applauded Blair for getting us elected in the 90s then became disillusioned in the 00s with New Labour and Iraq.

I voted for Corbyn last year as I thought despite his lack of credentials he would show us what the Labour Party is all about, take us back to its founding values. Fine is we are going to be in opposition for another 5 years but sad to say with a prospect of a general election on the horizon then we need a new leader who is electable.

We need someone to fight the ideological Tory austerity programme and that isn't Jeremy.

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Hilary Benn might be alright, but New Labour are not going to be elected any time soon. They're unbelievably out of touch.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Hilary Benn might be alright, but New Labour are not going to be elected any time soon. They're unbelievably out of touch.

It needs a fourth way.

 

[clint van damme]

It's worth noting that there was and is an inherant contradiction between political ideologies and Europe, anyway. I see no reason why a progressive left position can't reconcile itself to membership of the EU, although I'd like there to be more allowance for state aid and support, personally, but surely a full left wing argument would go further than the EU does, and encourage closer ties, and more redistribution to neglected areas in favour of the wealthy?

(In microcosm, take from London to give to Willenhall!)

Meanwhile, a right wing free market would surely encourage immigration, and there'd be a natural check anyway when it came to saturation point, with people bogging off again.

never understood how people fail to grasp this.

I can't be sure, but I'd imagine your average farm/food processing plant owner employing seasonal immigrant labour on low wages for fruit picking etc isn't a member of the TUSC.

 

[Captain Dart]

Fall out continues..

 

[chiefdave]

Fall out continues..

If I was a member of the Labour Party I'd be furious. Has a party ever been so out of step with its members?

Corbyn won by a landslide in the leadership election. Latest polls show that if he stands in the next leadership election he will win by an even bigger landslide.

So what are they going to do, prevent him standing? Can't imagine that would go down well with the membership.

They don't seem too happy as it is, a pro Corbyn demo is taking place outside Parliament.

 

[Captain Dart]

If I was a member of the Labour Party I'd be furious. Has a party ever been so out of step with its members?

Corbyn won by a landslide in the leadership election. Latest polls show that if he stands in the next leadership election he will win by an even bigger landslide.

So what are they going to do, prevent him standing? Can't imagine that would go down well with the membership.

They don't seem too happy as it is, a pro Corbyn demo is taking place outside Parliament.

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LOL, the Militant Tendency is alive and boisterous! Didn't I say earlier, the Labour party might split in 2, its not as if it hasn't happened several times in the past.

 

[Macca]

I expect Labour to win the next election at which point they would then have to drop a sizeable bollock to ever lose power again.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

the Labour party might split in 2, its not as if it hasn't happened several times in the past.

I'm afraid it's looking that way. Only hope is they can find a dynamic left leaning (non mentalist!) alternative to Corbyn, that at least keeps many happy.

But I don't know where or who that is!

 

[chiefdave]

the Militant Tendency is alive and boisterous!

Difference is its not a small group this time. The majority of party members voted for Corbyn. Since that vote his poll rating among Labour members has gone up (won with 59%, polls have him now at 66%).

In fact since the referendum his poll rating overall has risen to the highest its even been and despite the mantra of 'he could never win an election' the polls say if we had one right now he would.

Absolutely shambolic and must be heartbreaking for Labour supporters. The party effectively doesn't exist in any meaningful form at this point in time.

 

[chiefdave]

In all seriousness I wonder what those who have resigned think when they see that?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

In all seriousness I wonder what those who have resigned think when they see that?

It's the catch 22 though. The membership has some devotees, but they need to appeal to more than the members.

 

[skybluetony176]

In all seriousness I wonder what those who have resigned think when they see that?

We're in the wrong party.

 

[chiefdave]

It's the catch 22 though. The membership has some devotees, but they need to appeal to more than the members.

And that's from someone who detests Corbyn.

 

[chiefdave]

It's the catch 22 though. The membership has some devotees, but they need to appeal to more than the members.

How does that work then? You have a political party, you have members of that party. The members give a clear indication of the direction the want the party to go in. Party completely ignores it and does its own thing?

Should all parties become an imitation of the Tories to try and get more votes?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

How does that work then? You have a political party, you have members of that party. The members give a clear indication of the direction the want the party to go in. Party completely ignores it and does its own thing?

As said above, you need to find a more dynamic left leaning alternative.

It's entirely right Corbyn should be allowed to contest any leadership election, entirely right he gets to put across his POV.

Last time he had an easy run as the other three said bog all. We'll see if anybody learns from that.

 

[chiefdave]

As said above, you need to find a more dynamic left leaning alternative

They wouldn't be happy with that either. They want a Blairite and a return to New Labour.

 

[stupot07]

The unions will vote Corbyn back in again. He needs to go, the labour party need a dynamic credible leader.

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[NorthernWisdom]

They wouldn't be happy with that either. They want a Blairite and a return to New Labour.

Then they need to compromise too, and recognise the will is there for an alternative.

I think they probably will, in the end.

 

[lifeskyblue]

I think we are witnessing the end of the Labour Party as we know it. I think a lot of MPs will defect and form a new moderate left of centre party. It will keep the tories in power for a generation. ... Unless of course ukip can break the Tories (and take significant labour core voters).


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[Captain Dart]

In all seriousness I wonder what those who have resigned think when they see that?

Oh, I see that's where the SWP are today.

 

[chiefdave]

I think a lot of MPs will defect and form a new moderate left of centre party.

They could call it the Liberal Democrats.

 

[lifeskyblue]

Yes could be....or certainly close links with them


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[Captain Dart]

They could call it the Liberal Democrats.

New Labour.

 

[torchomatic]