Forum Questions that could be asked (1 Viewer)

[oldskyblue58]

Just some thoughts that i hope might help question TF. These are only some

The Status of CCFC Ltd
- The accounts to 31/05/11 signed by you state that CCFC ltd operates the football team. You have stated it is actually a non trading property subsidiary and more recently a non trading property subsidiary including player trading. So which is it or don't you know?
- Given the level of debt in both companies why is CCFC H solvent and CCFC Ltd not?

1) The accounts
- Are the accounts filed at Company House and HMRC wrong if so why specifically
- How many years have the accounts been wrong? from what date exactly?
- If the accounts are wrong what effect will that have on the amounts claimed by CCFC H against CCFC LTd. If you dont know what the accounts should say how can you accurately state the amount it owes?
- Why did you sign off accounts you know to be wrong
- When will corrected accounts for each group company be filed at Company House
- Why if the accounts were wrong did you provide information to the administrator based on the wrong basis
- How could a company which only pays the rent build up debts to CCFC H of £44m when 31/05/07 it had only owed CCFC H £14m. (Rental costs in your own words were £1.5m per year)
- How can CCFC Ltd declare 108 players and management at 31/05/11 but never have had any employees?
- does the £70m debt in CCFC Ltd include amounts that SISU discounted in their purchase deal but has not been so discounted in CCFC Ltd Accounts
- Do you understand that the responsibility for preparing accurate accounts is the Directors (ie yours) and do you understand the consequences for what seems to be the complete failure in doing so

SISU Investment
- exactly how much has been invested by SISU
- Which company have they invested that money in
- If CCFC Ltd does not operate a bank account is it correct to say that any money "invested" would have had to go in to CCFC H ?
- Have you ever invested any of your own money directly or indirectly in any of the SBS&L group companies if so has it been repaid?

Discussions with others
- were any contracts signed between CCFC/ SBS&L Group/SISU and ACL, Council Charity. Or were they just Heads of Terms or letters of intent ?
- Are Heads of Terms legally binding or can either party withdraw as they choose?
- When any heads of terms were agreed have you ever followed that by proposing amendments and did those amendments materially change what was agreed
- At how many of the meetings with ACL/Counci/Charity/Yorkshire Bank was Joy Seppalla present
- Did the council actually veto the Charity share sale given only Heads of Terms were ever agreed
- You have mentioned before a document dated 19/12/2003- what was that document, who prepared it and did they have any legal knowledge/expertise?
- When was the £400k rent at the Ricoh agreed
- When did you inform ACL that you intended to build your own stadium, you have said before that you had CBRE working on it late 2012 prior to the rent negotiations ending 29/01/13. So were you negotiating a rent deal in good faith?
- Why are the Council not allowed to change their mind when clearly you did exactly that when not taking the purchase of the Charity shares further after 30/06/12

The Golden Share
- You have repeatedly said that CCFC H own the Football League share which contradicts the Football League and Football Association who have both said the share lays with CCFC Ltd (as has Mr Appleton) how do you explain that
- How do you claim beneficial interest in the golden share held by CCFC Ltd but not also attribute beneficial interest in the Lease (those being the only two assets in that company)
- were player contracts ever held in the name of CCFC Ltd if so when did that change

Future Finances
- If FFP is key then why are you jeopardising that by moving to a ground share
- Did ACL offer the Club 100% of the F&B turnover (to be reinvoiced) and would that have improved our FFP budget?
- what do you expect the attendances to be at the ground share for the next 3 years
- How will future losses be financed and do you have written guaranteed confirmation of that funding
- Will the building of a new stadium increase the debts owed to SISU.
- What is the rate of interest paid to ARVO by any of the group companies?
- as the ARVO debt is now crystallised will that mean the charge on CCFC H will be settled also

Football side
- What will the player budget be next season
- are all players signed included in that
- what is happening to the academy, will it become a centre of excellence
- where will we be playing next season
- what will it cost to play there
- will you change your course of action given the lack of fan support
- why has communication at the club always been so poor when the lifeblood of the club is its fans

Hope that helps if you are going to the forums.

 

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

That could be used verbatim as the script for the evening, and thereafter we'd all be happier.

No joking about people's hunger strikes or balloons on cars. Just that lot will do for me.

One question from me, but not for the evening. If Fisher thought he'd be compelled to offer answers to that lot; do you think he'd turn up?

 

[cmoncity]

two questions need asking.....you will never make money whilst running a football club nobody wants you(sisu) here so why dont you do the honourable thing and leave the club.

secondly mr fischer stated the club was debt free last year.why are we in admin if thats the case.

 

[James Smith]

That could be used verbatim as the script for the evening, and thereafter we'd all be happier.

No joking about people's hunger strikes or balloons on cars. Just that lot will do for me.

One question from me, but not for the evening. If Fisher thought he'd be compelled to offer answers to that lot; do you think he'd turn up?

Can't wait to hear the answers! Although it's late closing on a Thursday so I may miss the start, hope it's on listen again.

 

[Jack Griffin]

That could be used verbatim as the script for the evening, and thereafter we'd all be happier.

No joking about people's hunger strikes or balloons on cars. Just that lot will do for me.

One question from me, but not for the evening. If Fisher thought he'd be compelled to offer answers to that lot; do you think he'd turn up?

I was thinking about asking if the new ground site is to be located in one or more of Warwickshires new traveller sites.. & if the Sky Blues should have a new nickname of the Gypsies.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/locations-permanent-gypsy-sites-warwick-4034849

But I think I'll stick to the script if the opportunity to ask a question arises.

 

[Florence1898]

Old Sky Blue, a very articulate set of questions for Timmy, I can see him running for the hills as I write. We have about as much chance of Fisher answering these questions honestly as building a statue of Seppala, although that would need to be built in fog as well. Keep up the great work, honesty will prevail.

 

[Noggin]

someone going should print out 50 copies of that and hand it out, makes sure the questions asked are good ones.

 

[jas365]

It is my intention to ask questions about the levels of turnover and wages in Ltd in the published accounts, you know the company that is non trading, has no player contracts and no assets. I'm going to the Monday forum so there's every chance someone else will beat me to it.

 

[skyblue2k]

I have a question that shoots down his BS straight away, i just found a receipt from the CCFC Superstore dated 2/3/13 time 15.57 with the company name being Coventry City Football Club Limited. VAT No 644329005

So if CCFC Limited is a non trading company, why is this name used on the receipt from the club shop?

 

[Paxman II]

I fear not very much of that will be asked OSB!

 

[corniepaste]

someone going should print out 50 copies of that and hand it out, makes sure the questions asked are good ones.

Great idea, as long as people follow it as a guide because if
he says, not answering, next question, it would be an equally challenging one, or a repeat of the same question in case he thinks no one else would remember what was previously just asked.

 

[James Smith]

two questions need asking.....you will never make money whilst running a football club nobody wants you(sisu) here so why dont you do the honourable thing and leave the club.

secondly mr fischer stated the club was debt free last year.why are we in admin if thats the case.

I heard a comment on the radio a few years ago from a former football club chairman (I have no idea which one, wasn't one of ours) who said

Owning a football club gives you the two happiest days of your life, the day you buy it and the day you sell it.

Unless you're buying into a really successful team or you've got serious money to waste I think that may be a fairly accurate summary.

 

[James Smith]

Great idea, as long as people follow it as a guide because if
he says, not answering, next question, it would be an equally challenging one, or a repeat of the same question in case he thinks no one else would remember what was previously just asked.

You should watch the master at work before going to the forum.
[video=youtube;1KHMO14KuJk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KHMO14KuJk[/video]

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Great idea, as long as people follow it as a guide because if
he says, not answering, next question, it would be an equally challenging one, or a repeat of the same question in case he thinks no one else would remember what was previously just asked.

I think a succession of 'no comments' from Fisher; especially if broadcast on radio, would give the audience both at the event, and those listening in, an indication if the true situation.

That being that they'll be hopeful people will either ask poorly researched, emotive, or frankly ridiculous questions about 'hunger strikes'; as opposed to the list above. That'll be SISU's hope - hoodwink the gullible and circumnavigate anything of substance.

A seamless barrage like the above would prove their worst nightmare. Each evasive response from Fisher would give rise to more vocal discontent in the room, that would be clearly audible to the listening public

 

[quinn1971]

I think a succession of 'no comments' from Fisher; especially if broadcast on radio, would give the audience both at the event, and those listening in, an indication if the true situation.

That being that they'll be hopeful people will either ask poorly researched, emotive, or frankly ridiculous questions about 'hunger strikes'; as opposed to the list above. That'll be SISU's hope - hoodwink the gullible and circumnavigate anything of substance.

A seamless barrage like the above would prove their worst nightmare. Each evasive response from Fisher would give rise to more vocal discontent in the room, that would be clearly audible to the listening public

I take it its being broadcast live tonight . perfect timing for some sisu out chants and for the forum to be abandoned ? That would make a much clearer point than any question to fisher.

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I won't be able to attend tonight so somebody please assure me these questions will be asked!

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I fear you may need to pick out a few OSB, as they won't allow all of these from one person! Shame.

 

[Godiva]

OSB, maybe you can include a few more questions:

- What are the exact terms of the loans from the funds and ARVO? Interest, installments, due date, swap to equity.
- Are there any plan for issuing shares to the fans, or if not - would the owners be prepared to transfer voting rights of say 20% of the shares to the Trust?

 

[Steve_75]

Great set of questions OSB. Would love to know the answer to these but I doubt that TF himself knows the answer to most of them!
Questions I'd like to add are:

What proportion of the £70M debt (or supposed £40-50M investment SISU have made) is made up of SISU's 'management charges'?

The only way they will get their 'investment' back is to take us from where we are back to the Premier League. Given the fact that their income is going to drop massively for the next 3 years, impacting on FFP, where does he see us (league position and debt wise) in 3 years and what is his plan to get us up the leagues from there to the PL?
He was quoted as saying our budget for next year is about £2M and that Yeovil were promoted on a budget of £1.2M but Yeovil were one of the favourites for the drop at the beginning of the season.
Is his plan just a huge gamble on being lucky enough to get promotions on small player budgets and given the fact that they're going to have to throw another £30-£50M at the club and new ground over the coming years with no guarantee of return, would they not be better off just cutting their losses now? Especially given that SISU may well have been collecting 'management charges' from the club over the last 5 years anyway.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Unfortunately I predict the following questions will be asked:

Will I still be able to get bovrill at the Banks stadium?

Will Sky Blue Sam be at the new ground?

Why doesn't mcsheffrey get a decent chance up front?

Will the club ensure that all buses to the new ground will be clean?

 

[oldskyblue58]

I know most of the questions will not be able to be asked and if asked will be side stepped but you never know some might get through......

The important ones to summarise

What is the nature/trade/status of CCFC ltd and from when exactly

How long exactly have the accounts been wrong and if wrong how can TF still rely on them to prove CCFC's debts

why did TF sign off accounts and give information to the administrator he knows to be wrong (thats his responsibility not the auditors)

exactly how much has SISU put in to the company by "investment" or loan or "equity"(not interest or management charge or old debts not written off, or debts to old directors that are written off) - hard cash

were there ever any formal signed agreements/contracts with ACL, Charity, Council, Yorkshire Bank or were they all Heads of Terms/ Letters of intent. (if HOT's then they are not legally binding and TF can not use them as evidence of others wrong doing any more than they can when he walked away from deals)

How many meetings with ACL, Council, Charity, Yorkshire Bank, Football League, CBRE, other Local Authorities etc was Joy Seppalla involved in

Where is/was the Golden Share

Will the debt/investment owed to SISU continue to increase to finance the losses and new stadium

What are the terms of the ARVO loan

Has TF or JS ever invested any of their own money directly or indirectly in to CCFC (ie the SBS&L Group) in any way at any time and if so has it been repaid

Why are they still here having achieved a football disaster on and off the pitch

aside from actually asking the questions the hardest thing will be getting accurate precise replies eg when were the accounts wrong from we need an exact date not "have always"

As i said this is not an exhastive list of questions a lot of other good ones have been raised so add them to the list

edit ..... you might also ask if they have the same auditors? - surely no business would retain the same ones who got it allegedly so wrong

 

[CCFC_GT]

Some great questions guys.

My personal favourite is this OSB one:-

How do you claim beneficial interest in the golden share held by CCFC Ltd but not also attribute beneficial interest in the Lease (those being the only two assets in that company)

Love to see TF squirm at this one.

 

[skybluesam66]

My question

If at the last fans forum in September you clearly stated that there is no debt as it has all been converted to equity
Since then we have paid no rent, a wage bill of around £3m and 2 lucrative cup matches

How come we are now £70m in debt
And do you realise that if we were a publically quoted company, such statements would be illegal if meant to deceive

 

[Danceswithhorses]

Some great questions guys.

My personal favourite is this OSB one:-

How do you claim beneficial interest in the golden share held by CCFC Ltd but not also attribute beneficial interest in the Lease (those being the only two assets in that company)

Love to see TF squirm at this one.

Yes that's a beauty...i do hope that one is asked

 

[valiant15]

How comes the likes of torch, taylor, stupot,covmark and all the other cheerleaders dont comment on threads like this? Scared of the truth maybe?

 

[ajsccfc]

Instead of these questions, someone will ask about the kit and that'll be a solid 20 minutes of time taken up. Tonight's one is on the radio right?

 

[skyblue2k]

Perhaps someone needs to get across that the forum is with ccfc holdings and that they are not the football club. could fisher use the forum to say to the league that Coventry fans Attended the forum and class ccfch as the club?

 

[shmmeee]

I take it its being broadcast live tonight . perfect timing for some sisu out chants and for the forum to be abandoned ? That would make a much clearer point than any question to fisher.

Yes. It would make the point that City fans are irrational idiots who care less about their club than taking their anger out on an individual.

I know you mean well but these things are golden opportunities for those of us for whom debate about the future of our club goes a bit beyond "Sisu Out".

They know how we feel, we need answers this is the place to get them.

 

[Bluegloucester]

How comes the likes of torch, taylor, stupot,covmark and all the other cheerleaders dont comment on threads like this? Scared of the truth maybe?

Taylor isn't good at sums

 

[shmmeee]

Mine from the other thread:

1) At the London Supporters meeting you stated that we will not release the new kit until after CCFC Ltd exit admin. What is the reason for this and would a buyer other than Sisu change those plans?

2) If we are to ground-share while build a new home, considering ACL have public ally stated that try are willing to negotiate with you at any time, how is it possible that any deal with another club is still more beneficial than the club renting the Ricoh for that time? How would you know this if you haven't been negotiating with ACL since the decision to move was made public?

3) will you agree to a public discussion, chaired by the BBC (impartial) with ACL about the deal?

4) Would a positive outcome for Sisu in the judicial review open the door for further negotiations?

 

[Godiva]

Scared of the truth maybe?

What is the truth?

We are picking out individual issues and forming opinions without knowing the full context. We really need sisu, ccc and acl to tell us all the 'behind scene stuff' and put it into context. A storyline if you like.

For instance - sisu claim their strategy was to acquire the Higgs shares and the acl mortgage at distressed value. They would then write off that mortgage and in effect increase the value of the shares held by both the club and the ccc. They claim that was all agreed with ccc.
Somewhere down the line the agreement was broken. Has it anything to do with Elliott/Hoffman popping up with a potential buyer?

If we could have the records set straight for that part of events, then we might be in a better position to evaluate the parties (sisu/ccc/acl) motives and actions.

 

[James Smith]

(Although I'd rather he answered the questions from OSB)

Tim, how does your quoted comment in the Coventry Telegraph in an article from 18th May entitled:Coventry City chief says the club have left the Ricoh Arena for good“We have left the Ricoh Arena.

"We were told categorically by ACL and by the council that there was no commercial deal to be done and in actual fact they would only ever work with the administrator."

Fit with your reported comments from the CCLSG meeting where you said that it could all be OK if ACL go back to the terms agreed in August 2012.

Also could you clarify for which company you were representing in each case when you said these things, was it Ltd or Holdings

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just a thought, that I raised partly a long time back......

The process of distressing ACL( by SISU & ACL stakeholders/Council in partnership according to TF) to take advantage of a low deal from Yorkshire Bank was allegedly agreed and started in March 2012 when CCFC stopped paying the rent apparently ..... or so TF claims.

The thought I raised before was that in order to distress ACL do you have to distress CCFC first.

You have to put CCFC in a position, as tenant, of running out of funds of being a failing business. Otherwise when you stop paying the rent and can afford it the bank are going to say to ACL "do your job right and recover the money so you can pay the loan". Equally discounting the loan doesnt work unless the keystone tenant cannot pay (not will not there is a difference) because the bank say the same thing

So did SISU have to distress CCFC first ? If so that was a process begun before any alleged apparent agreement with the Council or ACL because CCFC needed to be in a position not to pay by March 2012 when the alleged agreement was made. These things take time to set up i would imagine

If the timings/details above were true what might it say about the other things we have been told?

just thoughts

another thought is that the bank would have relied on the accounts produced by the tenants when assessing their risk and loan. Might be a good job that Yorkshire Bank was paid in full.

 

[Godiva]

Just a thought, that I raised partly a long time back......

The process of distressing ACL( by SISU & ACL stakeholders/Council in partnership according to TF) to take advantage of a low deal from Yorkshire Bank was allegedly agreed and started in March 2012 when CCFC stopped paying the rent apparently ..... or so TF claims.

The thought I raised before was that in order to distress ACL do you have to distress CCFC first.

You have to put CCFC in a position, as tenant, of running out of funds of being a failing business. Otherwise when you stop paying the rent and can afford it the bank are going to say to ACL "do your job right and recover the money so you can pay the loan". Equally discounting the loan doesnt work unless the keystone tenant cannot pay (not will not there is a difference) because the bank say the same thing

So did SISU have to distress CCFC first ? If so that was a process begun before any alleged apparent agreement with the Council or ACL because CCFC needed to be in a position not to pay by March 2012 when the alleged agreement was made. These things take time to set up i would imagine

If the timings/details above were true what might it say about the other things we have been told?

just thoughts

another thought is that the bank would have relied on the accounts produced by the tenants when assessing their risk and loan. Might be a good job that Yorkshire Bank was paid in full.

I think the process of distressing ccfc started 20 years ago.

The club was already hugely distressed when the plan to distress ACL was hatched. It only took the threat of sisu not continue to fund the losses.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I think the process of distressing ccfc started 20 years ago.

The club was already hugely distressed when the plan to distress ACL was hatched. It only took the threat of sisu not continue to fund the losses.

No, you're confusing that with the time when CCFC began to distress it's supporters, dear chap