Nottingham Serious Incident (1 Viewer)

[skybluetony176]

1 in 100 people are Schizophrenic, not all have violence on their record but if they aren't in the right mind......

It’s mental health. It’s not a one size fits all thing even within the same illness, everything is on a spectrum.

 

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[Grendel]

It’s mental health. It’s not a one size fits all thing even within the same illness, everything is on a spectrum.

You must be suffering from amnesia Tony

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I have a friend who has bipolar. They’ve been committed 3 times, twice voluntary, once by force. They’re diagnosed, medicated and 99.9% of the time function normally. They’re raising a family, very well educated, have a full time job etc. but they have flare ups triggered usually by stress which means that the meds become less effective. The 2 times they voluntarily committed was on the depression side of the curve, the time they were forcibly committed was on the manic side of their curve. They stopped taking their medication and things very quickly escalate. They went missing for a period of time, started posting stuff online that was so batshit crazy you just couldn’t believe the posts were from the person you knew. They’re lucky in many respects. They have a good support network around them in terms of family and friends and in the mental healthcare lottery they happen to have a postcode where mental healthcare is fairly decent by today’s standards, IIRC Nottingham ranks pretty low in that lottery.

All you've posted there is that you have a friend that has a mental health issue. One you've got a diagnosis you are a lot more privy to understanding your behaviours, what trigger them, and what you need to do to stay well. Of course flair ups can happen, of course things can go wrong. No one is also arguing that the cuts don't make things worse. The point is that there is line where responsibility goes to the person with the diagnosis. Whether that is therapy, cutting unhealthy people out of your life, keeping a stress-free job - once you are aware that you need to look after yourself, the person with the sole responsibility of that is you.

If someone is younger and has a manic or psychotic episode with no previous diagnosis or signs, you could argue that the defence might have half an argument. This isn't that though.

I really don't know how you're still not getting this. The man murdered three people violently, and tried to murder another three on top of that. He had a diagnosis, had help, was given medication, and on several turns refused to follow the necessary steps to stay well. As I said before, that isn't diminished responsibility, that's more or less the opposite. Your desperation to keep defending this man is disturbing.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I have a friend who has bipolar. They’ve been committed 3 times, twice voluntary, once by force. They’re diagnosed, medicated and 99.9% of the time function normally. They’re raising a family, very well educated, have a full time job etc. but they have flare ups triggered usually by stress which means that the meds become less effective. The 2 times they voluntarily committed was on the depression side of the curve, the time they were forcibly committed was on the manic side of their curve. They stopped taking their medication and things very quickly escalate. They went missing for a period of time, started posting stuff online that was so batshit crazy you just couldn’t believe the posts were from the person you knew. They’re lucky in many respects. They have a good support network around them in terms of family and friends and in the mental healthcare lottery they happen to have a postcode where mental healthcare is fairly decent by today’s standards, IIRC Nottingham ranks pretty low in that lottery.

Yeah I don't really want to go into detail, but I do know for a cast-iron FACT that expecting somebody with paranoid schizophrenia to make a rational choice about their medication or treatment is asking too much on occasion. I also know for a cast iron FACT that support networks ain't what they used to be... and they've never been particularly great tbh.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Yeah I don't really want to go into detail, but I do know for a cast-iron FACT that expecting somebody with paranoid schizophrenia to make a rational choice about their medication or treatment is asking too much on occasion. I also know for a cast iron FACT that support networks ain't what they used to be... and they've never been particularly great tbh.

It seems to me that it's just any excuse possible to try and make this guy unaccountable. Like I said earlier, there could be more of a debate if he was undiagnosed to this point, or if the people desperately wanting him to get off the murder charges appeared to come across as balanced rather than seeing him as some sort of victim to the system and also going hard-line political.

People with schizophrenia may struggle to make the right decisions sometimes, but we are talking about continuous neglect of the anti-psychotic medication, refusing help, and then consequently multiple homicide here. You have to draw the line somewhere. Whatever labels they want to put on it, he should never ever be allowed out in a public setting ever again.

 

[Nick]

It seems people are more desperate to blame everybody else rather than the actual murderer.

Hopefully they can have him round for tea if he's released.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It seems people are more desperate to blame everybody else rather than the actual murderer.

Hopefully they can have him round for tea if he's released.

No shifting of blame or excuses here, just pointed out a couple of FACTS

 

[skybluetony176]

It seems people are more desperate to blame everybody else rather than the actual murderer.

Hopefully they can have him round for tea if he's released.

To coin a phrase that gets used a lot at the moment, this didn’t happen in a vacuum. The details are still coming out and the truth seems to be that both Nottingham police and now Leicester police missed opportunities to detain him and in the case of the Nottingham Police deliberately lied to the families about why that didn’t happen. He did what he did, no one is questioning that despite your rhetoric. Maligning and belittling mental health issues in the wider context including how it is or isn’t dealt with is frankly pathetic behaviour. I bet you even know someone who’s dealing with mental health issues.

 

[Nick]

To coin a phrase that gets used a lot at the moment, this didn’t happen in a vacuum. The details are still coming out and the truth seems to be that both Nottingham police and now Leicester police missed opportunities to detain him and in the case of the Nottingham Police deliberately lied to the families about why that didn’t happen. He did what he did, no one is questioning that despite your rhetoric. Maligning and belittling mental health issues in the wider context including how it is or isn’t dealt with is frankly pathetic behaviour. I bet you even know someone who’s dealing with mental health issues.

Im belittling a multiple murderer and little who are trying to play what he did down.

There are millions of people with issues who don't randomly go on a rampage.

 

[wingy]

How far does it go?

Does everybody need somebody to force meds down throats every day? At what points does he have to take responsibility?

An under the skin like a contraceptive?

 

[robbiekeane]

Illogical Nick, if he was not of sound mind that extends to decisions to take medication or not

Correct.

This thread is a very sad read indeed. Clearly people on here have never been unfortunate enough to have someone close to them with paranoid schizophrenia and it shows. Guy thinks MI5 are after him and that he’s being controlled with remote controls and people expect that person to be able to take medication consistently

The failing here is with the police and the mental health services. To be sectioned and then released so many times when he had demonstrated he was a clear danger to the public is a huge failure.

Of course absolutely tragic for the victims families and the worst type of situation because the sentence/punishment will never seem enough or just.

Reminded myself why I try and stay out of off-topic!

 

[wingy]

Police not coming out of this well.