Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (15 Viewers)

[covcity4life]

we need to get out of league 2 first time of asking. and out of league 1 within 2-3 years(and challenging every year)

once we are in championship i again i think most fans standards will have lowered and we will be content with survival every year

 

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[Esoterica]

we need to get out of league 2 first time of asking. and out of league 1 within 2-3 years(and challenging every year)

once we are in championship i again i think most fans standards will have lowered and we will be content with survival every year

I don't think most fans have a true understanding of what it will take to be a self sustainable club. We want better communication than a 14k a year Head of Communications provides, we want improved club branding, better marketing of community activities, our youth prospects protected with better contracts so they don't get poached, a cat 2 academy maintained, our favourite players to have money thrown at them when they wind their contracts down and a competitive first team challenging every year and all for 200 quid season tickets.

 

[ajsccfc]

And when do we want it?

10 years ago ideally.

 

[Nick]

I don't think most fans have a true understanding of what it will take to be a self sustainable club. We want better communication than a 14k a year Head of Communications provides, we want improved club branding, better marketing of community activities, our youth prospects protected with better contracts so they don't get poached, a cat 2 academy maintained, our favourite players to have money thrown at them when they wind their contracts down and a competitive first team challenging every year and all for 200 quid season tickets.

Exactly, it is just expecting somebody to throw loads of money in then walk away when it doesn't work. Then the next person comes in and rinse and repeat.

 

[covcity4life]

not sure anyones asking for lots of money to be thrown at it. we get told every year we have a competitive budget, if sisu are telling truth then we should be able to dream of 2 promotions surely?

also would 12k st holders at 350 quid get us to championship easily? do we trust sisu for that to happen?

no easy route either way,but ill carry on dreaming of promotion from league fucking 2 thanks

 

[fernandopartridge]

Does anyone know the rate of interest that Avro charge the club against the loan?

11% ish? I think that was mentioned on here previously.

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

11% ish? I think that was mentioned on here previously.

Thanks - if this is correct then Avro is having a really good level of return on the loan to CCFC. This is way above the rate that a commercial loan would be charged. Therefore, given a 11% return per annum on their investment.....why would you sell?

 

[matesx]

Thanks - if this is correct then Avro is having a really good level of return on the loan to CCFC. This is way above the rate that a commercial loan would be charged. Therefore, given a 11% return per annum on their investment.....why would you sell?

Exactly.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Thanks - if this is correct then Avro is having a really good level of return on the loan to CCFC. This is way above the rate that a commercial loan would be charged. Therefore, given a 11% return per annum on their investment.....why would you sell?

Valid point, but, how much cash is actually being paid to Arvo?

 

[Grendel]

Valid point, but, how much cash is actually being paid to Arvo?

None it's all deferred.

 

[Esoterica]

None it's all deferred.

And 8.5 mill plus 4 mill accrued interest* (which will only have got worse in the last year) will be one of the major hurdles between SISU's valuation of the club and Hoffman's offer of a 'packet of pickled onion monster munch + 20 million if George Thomas scores a hattrick for Wales in a World Cup final'

* not sure of the exact interest figure without checking

 

[oldskyblue58]

Does anyone know the rate of interest that Avro charge the club against the loan?

Its difficult to be 100% accurate from the information we have

outstanding to ARVO is around £8.27m. The interest is around £1.37m plus the withholding tax usually 20% gross up (due to ARVO being UK non tax resident) = 1.7m Gross interest

that puts the interest around 20 %

none has actually been paid out as cash, its be rolled up each year increasing the debt except for any that was converted in to preference shares

 

[fernandopartridge]

Its difficult to be 100% accurate from the information we have

outstanding to ARVO is around £8.27m. The interest is around £1.37m plus the withholding tax usually 20% gross up (due to ARVO being UK non tax resident) = 1.7m Gross interest

that puts the interest around 20 %

Wasn't far off, bloody hell. Wonga Master Fund they should be called.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Its difficult to be 100% accurate from the information we have

outstanding to ARVO is around £8.27m. The interest is around £1.37m plus the withholding tax usually 20% gross up (due to ARVO being UK non tax resident) = 1.7m Gross interest

that puts the interest around 20 %

none has actually been paid out as cash, its be rolled up each year increasing the debt except for any that was converted in to preference shares

One way to hurt a break even strategy, that...

 

[bawtryneal]

Its difficult to be 100% accurate from the information we have

outstanding to ARVO is around £8.27m. The interest is around £1.37m plus the withholding tax usually 20% gross up (due to ARVO being UK non tax resident) = 1.7m Gross interest

that puts the interest around 20 %

none has actually been paid out as cash, its be rolled up each year increasing the debt except for any that was converted in to preference shares

They had better make sure they don`t spend any of Nicks season ticket money on paying back the loans or he will go crazy.

 

[Nick]

They had better make sure they don`t spend any of Nicks season ticket money on paying back the loans or he will go crazy.

Or yours, depending on whether you are boycotting that week or not.

 

[bawtryneal]

Or yours, depending on whether you are boycotting that week or not.

No season ticket for me next season I am afraid. Will see how things go during the summer and if there is any entertainment to be had.
Its a long way to travel to be bored and frustrated. After all these years it wears a bit thin.

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

Its difficult to be 100% accurate from the information we have

outstanding to ARVO is around £8.27m. The interest is around £1.37m plus the withholding tax usually 20% gross up (due to ARVO being UK non tax resident) = 1.7m Gross interest

that puts the interest around 20 %

none has actually been paid out as cash, its be rolled up each year increasing the debt except for any that was converted in to preference shares

Thank you OSB for your assessment, which brings me back to my point that I cannot see Avro relinquishing the CCFC "cash cow"......assuming the interest could be realised.
One strategy for the investors could be to fire sell everything and bail out after repaying the loan. Therefore, any offer for the club would need to be in excess of that valuation.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Thanks - if this is correct then Avro is having a really good level of return on the loan to CCFC. This is way above the rate that a commercial loan would be charged. Therefore, given a 11% return per annum on their investment.....why would you sell?

11%??? That's way above current market value...stop the payments! That's a tactic that usually brings about real positive outcomes. I mean look how much better off we are now than 4yrs ago!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

Thank you OSB for your assessment, which brings me back to my point that I cannot see Avro relinquishing the CCFC "cash cow"......assuming the interest could be realised.
One strategy for the investors could be to fire sell everything and bail out after repaying the loan. Therefore, any offer for the club would need to be in excess of that valuation.

That's why they won't sell the assets for 1.2 m (based on last offer) when they could sell everything off.

 

[Nick]

No season ticket for me next season I am afraid. Will see how things go during the summer and if there is any entertainment to be had.
Its a long way to travel to be bored and frustrated. After all these years it wears a bit thin.

Fuck sisu, you will only be spiting yourself!

 

[Captain Dart]

Thanks - if this is correct then Avro is having a really good level of return on the loan to CCFC. This is way above the rate that a commercial loan would be charged. Therefore, given a 11% return per annum on their investment.....why would you sell?

Because no one will ever pay that rate of interest, it is more a figure for the books to artificially inflate the book debt.

They are probably only expecting 5% yield in the long run. Though there are probably easier ways of getting that, you can get that sort of rate from peer to peer at much lower risk these days.

 

[martcov]

Because no one will ever pay that rate of interest, it is more a figure for the books to artificially inflate the book debt.

They are probably only expecting 5% yield in the long run. Though there are probably easier ways of getting that, you can get that sort of rate from peer to peer at much lower risk these days.

They would have been offered that high rate because of the risk involved. The original investors have in effect lost their money. Arvo was bought in to keep us going. Their security is the charge on everything of ( possible ) value. No way would anyone have financed us at normal rates. Arvo could still offer to accept less if they see that an offer of something is better than nothing. This is what Joy knows about and why she was called 'the queen of debt', and why she wanted to work with ACL to force the bank to accept less on the ACL loan.

This time the boot is on the other foot. It is her investment firm that may have to take a partial hit.

 

[Captain Dart]

Queen of mean.

 

[bawtryneal]

Fuck sisu, you will only be spiting yourself!

Spiting myself !! Haha. Heard it all now.
Why pay £50 plus in diesel, leave home at noon and get back home at 7pm after travelling 225 miles just to be bored and frustrated.
I've being going "up the City" with my Dad and brother and then both my daughters for 50 years since my Dad first took me aged 6. Have had some great times but no longer fun for me. I am Skyblue through and through but have currently had enough. If you are at time in your life where you still enjoy and it suits your circumstances and family life, I am genuinely pleased for you. I will pick and choose which games I go to, which will depend on how much enjoyment I have. Let's hope I attend 40 games next year as will mean we are playing good attractive football and creating a great positive atmosphere.

 

[olderskyblue]

Spiting myself !! Haha. Heard it all now.
Why pay £50 plus in diesel, leave home at noon and get back home at 7pm after travelling 225 miles just to be bored and frustrated.
I've being going "up the City" with my Dad and brother and then both my daughters for 50 years since my Dad first took me aged 6. Have had some great times but no longer fun for me. I am Skyblue through and through but have currently had enough. If you are at time in your life where you still enjoy and it suits your circumstances and family life, I am genuinely pleased for you. I will pick and choose which games I go to, which will depend on how much enjoyment I have. Let's hope I attend 40 games next year as will mean we are playing good attractive football and creating a great positive atmosphere.

If so, you will be adding more towards MR's playing budget than these cheapskate season ticket buyers..

 

[bawtryneal]

If so, you will be adding more towards MR's playing budget than these cheapskate season ticket buyers..

Exactly !!!
Used to buy a pie and a couple of beers in the old days but don't bother with that any more. When will they learn that if they offer decent beer and food at reasonable prices people will buy it. £8. 50 for a shit pie and a warm pint of Carlsberg. Having a laugh !!!

 

[ccfcway]

Exactly, it is just expecting somebody to throw loads of money in then walk away when it doesn't work..

I expect them to walk away because they couldn't make it work.

 

[cloughie]

Never been a flirt.
Ok maybe not many on here but there are your RFC and AndreasB then there is that Jonathan Strange and Les Reid who believe Sisu have invested 60 million and deserve it back.
Then there are the ones who are scared to say what they actually think and just Diss off everything that goes on when it is against Sisu.

Any one can say I hate sisu trouble is some don't mean it.

Spot on

 

[ccfcway]

Fuck sisu, you will only be spiting yourself!

what's being bored and frustrated with CCFC games got to do with SISU, they aren't the same thing ?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

So has anyone confirmed that a third bid has gone in yet? Facebook seems to think so, but I doubt the credibility of some

 

[Nick]

Spiting myself !! Haha. Heard it all now.
Why pay £50 plus in diesel, leave home at noon and get back home at 7pm after travelling 225 miles just to be bored and frustrated.
I've being going "up the City" with my Dad and brother and then both my daughters for 50 years since my Dad first took me aged 6. Have had some great times but no longer fun for me. I am Skyblue through and through but have currently had enough. If you are at time in your life where you still enjoy and it suits your circumstances and family life, I am genuinely pleased for you. I will pick and choose which games I go to, which will depend on how much enjoyment I have. Let's hope I attend 40 games next year as will mean we are playing good attractive football and creating a great positive atmosphere.

No, what I mean is that CCFC means more to you than them. I can understand just being fed up of not very good football but don't let SISU ruin it for you. There will be a CCFC before them and after them eventually.

I can understand if it isn't enjoyable, but hopefully it will become a bit better (fingers crossed).

It was a short post as I was on my phone, but I just think people should remember why they love CCFC and treat it as CCFC (see Wembley) and have the memories etc despite SISU and not because of them. (ie, if Robins works miracles this season then it is despite them).

 

[Chipfat]

Owners of clubs no matter who they are or what level the club is at have to show a plan or an idea of what the goals they have to the fans. Without this you are being asked to invest your time and money into a black hole with very few rewards. We have owners that currently don't care about you or i as a fans, they care about the club being alive so they can fund or place money into accounts or repayments that allows them to keep certain people happy. We are and have been a SISU vehicle for a very long time and with them seeing no realistic chance of getting money back from success on the field are just delaying and playing with time until they see fit to let go.

If any new face came in a plan has to be known and a target has to be set, with fans being asked to back to path the owners take. To be asked to follow blindly out of love, habit or tradition is only going to end in the inevitable failure. Fans will get sick of investing and spending time with little or no reward and that year after year is slowly happening. Sisu know they only have a certain amount of shelf life in the business model they are currently running. So maybe another season of cutting cost and keeping the running costs low while keeping certain monies out to fund or repay charges is the way they carry on. But sooner or later selling players, declining ST sales and pressures of having no ground to play in which will mean them having to invest, is where they see the exit door. Its very hard to see this happening to our club but Hoff or whoever comes in will have a tough job getting the club back on track with what will be left to build from. This day will come and think it will happen the more that Sisu see a decline in revenue or help from those within or those who govern the game

Tim has no plan, because they have no plan, that they can sell fans on buying into this model, so its them being quiet apologizing when they have too and going back in the shadows where time and patterns carry on as normal. This is very clear as almost every season is masking the one before. Sadly they hold the keys to this deal and unless they get the price they want they are looking at keeping the life support on while those who hold it most dear are suffering while watching it's decline.

 

[skybluedan]

So has anyone confirmed that a third bid has gone in yet? Facebook seems to think so, but I doubt the credibility of some

How dare you disrespect Facebook and the credibility of those, what about giblet or the other clown ain't they said anything?
When it's on Facebook is it by fans saying there in the know or is it on like proper sites?
Don't really know how it works really

 

[bawtryneal]

No, what I mean is that CCFC means more to you than them. I can understand just being fed up of not very good football but don't let SISU ruin it for you. There will be a CCFC before them and after them eventually.

I can understand if it isn't enjoyable, but hopefully it will become a bit better (fingers crossed).

It was a short post as I was on my phone, but I just think people should remember why they love CCFC and treat it as CCFC (see Wembley) and have the memories etc despite SISU and not because of them. (ie, if Robins works miracles this season then it is despite them).

I don't disagree with anything you say above Nick. Nobody more than me wants a successful CCFC. Let's hope for the better times returning.
Keep enjoying spending time with your daughter on a Saturday afternoon. My two girls are 25 and 28 now and we spent some fantastic time travelling round the country watching City home and away. Their Mum (my wife) died when they were 14 and 11 respectively so it was a great way to spend Dad/daughter time at a weekend whilst keeping me happy with my Skyblue fix. We still go to games together on occasion and Wembley was a great family day out.
One day SISU will be gone ( I hope it's not to late) and we can all have our club back.
However, when you read stories about Rooney gambling and the Pogba agent dealings it makes you really wonder why we care anymore.