Sisu boss Joy Seppala rejects council offer to play at Ricoh Arena rent-free (1 Viewer)

[RoboCCFC90]

I am not sure why people are so surprised about this information, Sisu have said they will not return to the Ricoh under a rental agreement, they have made their stance clear. Maybe the Council should come out and confirm whether they are willing to sell the freehold to Sisu instead of the utter crap of "We want the Sky Blues home for Christmas" and releasing statements that neither deny or confirm the answers of the question.

 

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[covspain]

Rremove this please Nick

Never deal at all with a lesbo

This post is abusive can we have it removed please

 

[andyboy81]

At the risk of getting a beating on here can I just say. Have people missed or chosen to ignore the part which says

"The club complains the proposal failed to offer the loss-making club any vital stadium revenues, and would still have seen them paying other matchday costs totalling £320,000 a year."

Isnt that alone TWICE what they are paying at Sixfields?

Also, wasn't it the lack of matchday revenue being put back into the club that started all of this?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Could this be it OSB? I've just copied this from another thread I just posted it onto...

Apologies if this has been discussed and dismissed elsewhere already, but I'll float my theory anyway of just what SISU's strategy is...
Their case for JR has 4 strands to it - most of the attention has been on the loan itself and how ACL would re-finance the loan if it is found to be improper, but the related arguments that SISU made were that this was a strategy to drive them out of Coventry...and it succeeded. So, if they win the JR, they will move on to the issue of compensation for the damages incurred as a result of being driven out of Coventry by the improper actions of CCC:

1. Loss of income - many threads have said 'do the maths, SISU, you are losing millions by playing at Northampton'. They are doing it, and the longer they are out of Coventry, the bigger the total. A shortfall of 10,000 fans a match is around 3-4 million a season, plus programme and shop sales, food and drink, car parking etc. So they may be racking up 5 million a season here, plus interest of course.
2. Curtailed performance - through the above loss of income, on-pitch performance is curtailed by the necessity of staying within FFP limits. It sounds tenuous but - say we miss out on promotion by a few points - a good lawyer could convincingly argue that, without the limitations imposed by CCC's actions - the squad would have been strengthened, improved results achieved and promotion obtained, and all the resultant additional revenues that would have followed from that. Plus more income from more TV appearances, more ticket sales etc.
3. Reputational damage - our once-proud and greatly-respected club has taken so many hits to its standing and reputation that they might even try this one, even though they have arguably been responsible for most of them! A brand has a value and ours has been diminished by being forced out of our home city.

If SISU win this JR, and after loads more legal argument - not least about what is permissible to claim within the law - expect a big claim for damages against CCC, then a load more legal argument, more negotiation and eventually an agreement - "give us the Ricoh to settle our claims and we will let you off any further action".

Please tell me I am hallucinating, as I would really hate to see it turning out like this.

Wouldnt surprise me at all ....... however we are talking years away before that would be the case. The JR is in the high Court and could be appealed to at least 2 higher courts as I understand it before we even get to the issue of compensation. The JR doesnt usually award compensation so it would be new court cases and appeals to achieve that. By that time will the team be back at the Ricoh? back in Coventry or back any where close to Coventry...... would seem pointless legal expense if the intention was to build a new ground ..... unless they are relying on the compensation to pay for the build ?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

So in summary

JS meets AL in London. JS says only way back for CCFC is if it is as stadium owners of the whole site (that ties in with public statements in press). AL probably says all options are open but ACL have long lease on the site and it is not usual Council policy to sell freeholds. Nor can AL talk about a rental deal because only ACL can do that but in any case it would be a short conversation because JS just not interested in such deal. (AL did not make the rent free proposal that was done by ACL). Stalemate, meeting ends with nothing achieved, no statement issued because in essence there is nothing to say.

ACL approach FL to ask them to broker talks about a rent deal, giving them details of the proposals including a proposal for rent free for the rest of this season only payment of match day expenses. FL approach Otium with the proposals, which are rejected and no meeting set up to discuss a rent deal. It isnt a direct approach so both sides can say it hasnt been formalised or that no response received.

Little snippets are leaked from here and there about who said what and when. nothing changes there then. Opinion is swayed this way and that by the various parties involved

In mean time team dips and then reinvigorated by 3 signings, Otium open a Coventry shop, SISU win a battle in court, owners feel more confident. ACL get on with their business, stay quiet except to say that their turnover has increased even without ccfc and door open to a rent deal. Council stay quiet except to say that they are still willing to talk about bringing CCFC back. National press gets involved and stirs the pot. The fans become ever more frustrated by the whole damn thing.

about covers it I think ...........

Is this an underlined fact OSB?

Because if ACL Directors can't discuss a sale of the freehold and the Council can't discuss the sale of the freehold, who are Sisu supposed to ask?

 

[Hobo]

I am not sure why people are so surprised about this information, Sisu have said they will not return to the Ricoh under a rental agreement, they have made their stance clear. Maybe the Council should come out and confirm whether they are willing to sell the freehold to Sisu instead of the utter crap of "We want the Sky Blues home for Christmas" and releasing statements that neither deny or confirm the answers of the question.

Yes SISU have said they won't return on a rental deal. They have said they want to buy the Ricoh.

They haven't been proactive in any negotiations, haven't made an offer for the stadium. They have resorted to not paying rent and then moved the club to Northampton. Then go down court route complaining others aren't playing fair.

All these things are SISU tactics to distress ACL and CCC. Because they want and have always wanted the Ricoh below market value.

That is for their benefit. Anyone who thinks they are doing it for CCFC are either blind or live on a week to week basis and can't see past the next game.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Yes SISU have said they won't return on a rental deal. They have said they want to buy the Ricoh.

They haven't been proactive in any negotiations, haven't made an offer for the stadium. They have resorted to not paying rent and then moved the club to Northampton. Then go done court route complaining others aren't playing fair.

All these things are SISU tactics to distress ACL and CCC. Because they want and have always wanted the Ricoh below market value.

That is for their benefit. Anyone who thinks they are doing it for CCFC are either blind or live on a week to week basis and can't see past the next game.

Lets break the facts down here.

To make an offer for something you first need a value of which x item is valued for instance if the Council came out and said the Freehold is for sale at £X I would be very happy, this way Sisu can either say yes or no for a seat to discuss a deal, however by not saying whether it is for sale or isn't leaves people in a giant loop, it's the same as putting your house up for sale but in the local newspaper advertisement leaving the price as Undisclosed.

ACL are a sustainable business according to PWKH, ACL and the Council, so if that is the case why the need for the £14M bail out, they could afford the repayment cost and as Sisu have previously stated, they were negotiating a deal to purchase the Arena during the time the council stuck their nose in, rightly or wrongly that won't be my dispute, did it have an impact on negotiations? Of course.

Sisu are a hedgefund they're all about getting distressed assets on the cheap, why do you sound surprised about it?

Maybe they are doing it for their benefit, but who is to say once Sisu have an asset like the Ricoh which coupled together with the club could make the club a better selling assest for a price worth getting rid of them.

 

[James Smith]

At the risk of getting a beating on here can I just say. Have people missed or chosen to ignore the part which says

"The club complains the proposal failed to offer the loss-making club any vital stadium revenues, and would still have seen them paying other matchday costs totalling £320,000 a year."

Isnt that alone TWICE what they are paying at Sixfields?

Also, wasn't it the lack of matchday revenue being put back into the club that started all of this?

The deal at Sixfields might include the matchday costs but that wouldn't give Mr Cardoza and NTFC as much cash at the end of the day so possibly it doesn't. You would hope that based on the numbers willing to travel at the weekend just gone that the increased gate receipts likely at the Ricoh would be suitable financial inducement to bring our club back.

 

[mrtickle]

I'm shocked that people are surprised by this. It smacks of desperation that they are offering it for free and then £100k.
Sisu are trying to get Ricoh on the cheap. It's not in their interest to support the Ricoh. If they are tenants, ACL will be on a better footing if they lose the court case if they have a tenant.
I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about knock on effect of cov leaving to suppliers, sponsors , compass group etc. if they can offer rent free then it shows ACL benefit from their presence.
A final thought. What were other conditions. Free for one year, 100k for next 2 if still in div 1. What then? A 100 year lease for £1mil as season? We don't know what conditions.
Sisu are playing hardball. I'd be annoyed if I went to buy a car and the owner strung me along only to say he was only ever interested I renting to me.
PUSB. NOPM

 

[tisza]

Apart from matchday F&B what other matchday revenues were the club not receiving and to what value?

 

[ecky]

Labowich on bbc cov when pushed about new stadium started spluttering and dodging the issue, bloke was making it up as he spoke, to all you sick fields lot there is no new stadium, and the club isn't coming back, so you'd better used to going npton

It's a depressing time...

 

[tisza]

"ACL are a sustainable business according to PWKH, ACL and the Council, so if that is the case why the need for the £14M bail out, they could afford the repayment cost and as Sisu have previously stated, they were negotiating a deal to purchase the Arena during the time the council stuck their nose in, rightly or wrongly that won't be my dispute, did it have an impact on negotiations?"

The 14 million "bailout" was to pay off the Yorkshire bank loan who were getting nervous about ACL's ability to pay the loan installments due to the rent strike. To forestall this the Council stepped in with a new loan on better terms. There was no indication that ACL had missed or were going to miss bank payments.
How can the council stick their noses into a deal to purchase the Arena when it had to be them any deal to buy the freehold would have been with?
It seems more likely that the ACL was becoming a sustainable business seeing as they've had to expand the hotel capacity by about 50% and invest 3.4 million in upgrading the exhibition facilities.
What the Ricoh lacked/lacks is a name tenant. The sums talked about for the rental fee imply that the net profit is not a significant amount for the ACL.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Lets break the facts down here.

To make an offer for something you first need a value of which x item is valued for instance if the Council came out and said the Freehold is for sale at £X I would be very happy, this way Sisu can either say yes or no for a seat to discuss a deal, however by not saying whether it is for sale or isn't leaves people in a giant loop, it's the same as putting your house up for sale but in the local newspaper advertisement leaving the price as Undisclosed.

ACL are a sustainable business according to PWKH, ACL and the Council, so if that is the case why the need for the £14M bail out, they could afford the repayment cost and as Sisu have previously stated, they were negotiating a deal to purchase the Arena during the time the council stuck their nose in, rightly or wrongly that won't be my dispute, did it have an impact on negotiations? Of course.

Sisu are a hedgefund they're all about getting distressed assets on the cheap, why do you sound surprised about it?

Maybe they are doing it for their benefit, but who is to say once Sisu have an asset like the Ricoh which coupled together with the club could make the club a better selling assest for a price worth getting rid of them.

I can clear up the confusion now if you like. The freehold isn't for sale. That doesn't mean a good offer wouldn't be listened to though.

Just in the same way the club wasn't for sale when groups were interested.

 

[italiahorse]

ACL didn't want the deal with SISU and snapped the councils hands off when they made the refinance offer.

ACL just move on and put the club out its misery.

 

[Hobo]

Lets break the facts down here.

To make an offer for something you first need a value of which x item is valued for instance if the Council came out and said the Freehold is for sale at £X I would be very happy, this way Sisu can either say yes or no for a seat to discuss a deal, however by not saying whether it is for sale or isn't leaves people in a giant loop, it's the same as putting your house up for sale but in the local newspaper advertisement leaving the price as Undisclosed.

ACL are a sustainable business according to PWKH, ACL and the Council, so if that is the case why the need for the £14M bail out, they could afford the repayment cost and as Sisu have previously stated, they were negotiating a deal to purchase the Arena during the time the council stuck their nose in, rightly or wrongly that won't be my dispute, did it have an impact on negotiations? Of course.

Sisu are a hedgefund they're all about getting distressed assets on the cheap, why do you sound surprised about it?

Maybe they are doing it for their benefit, but who is to say once Sisu have an asset like the Ricoh which coupled together with the club could make the club a better selling assest for a price worth getting rid of them.

I am not surprised at SISU tactics....I am always pointing them out in posts because a lot of people don't seem to understand what they are about. I have often said research their history.

Yes before you make an offer you need a market value. So why haven't SISU made an offer on their calculation....I would say because they are still trying to drive the value down.

One of their tactics is to get the other side to shift then take that shift as there new starting point. Meanwhile engage in legal action to muddy the waters and distress further.

The CCC said the Ricoh was sustainable without the football team. This was post the renegotiation over mortgage/bail out, call it what you will.

They have also acknowledged they would be better with the club at the Ricoh.

Regarding this sustainability, it is not what you owe it is how the debt/repayments/interest is structured. Standard debt advice is make sure you know what you are actually paying re loans credit cards...various per cent age rate do all sorts of things...get the best deal. That could only benefit both parties in negotiations.

People seem to think CCC and ACL are purely looking at the pounds and pence. Or is this breakdown in trust to do with What would SISU do if they got the freehold and where would that leave the football club.

Lucas said something like this the other week, I will listen to anybody who puts forward a clear plan....regarding the Ricoh.

For me it is about not trusting SISUs intentions and their need to get a return on their investment. Please note there is no mention of a football club in that sentence.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Is this an underlined fact OSB?

Because if ACL Directors can't discuss a sale of the freehold and the Council can't discuss the sale of the freehold, who are Sisu supposed to ask?

I did say probably Robbo............. however it is a fact that ACL own the lease so getting the freehold doesnt get automatic rights to income. It is accepted that councils have a large land bank they can just sit on, that doesnt mean they wont sell but probably they dont need to sell.

SISU if they want the freehold talk to the council ...... if council say we are not looking to sell unless we get an offer that is too good to turn down then i guess SISU revert to legal process.......

 

[Ashdown1]

Labowich on bbc cov when pushed about new stadium started spluttering and dodging the issue, bloke was making it up as he spoke, to all you sick fields lot there is no new stadium, and the club isn't coming back, so you'd better used to going npton

It's a depressing time...

The guy is just another fucking bullshitter put out there by the Queen of club destroying bullshitters !

 

[No future with SISU]

Why was Fisher not on CWR this morning

 

[andyboy81]

This little beauty just come through to work, Handy as we are looking to relocate soon.

 

[Godiva]

View attachment 3084 This little beauty just come through to work, Handy as we are looking to relocate soon.

Is that the whole pitch for rent?
Organic green wall-to-wall carpet.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

If he's not careful, old labiabitch will be almost as unpopular as Timmy!!

 

[andyboy81]

Is that the whole pitch for rent?
Organic green wall-to-wall carpet.

Just the offices I think. Just the Bluenoses at work had grrrrrrreat (like tony tiger) pleasure in putting it on my desk.

 

[valiant15]

If he's not careful, old labiabitch will be almost as unpopular as Timmy!!

Labovitch,the man who cant keeps his eyes looking straight when hes being asked a question.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I can clear up the confusion now if you like. The freehold isn't for sale. That doesn't mean a good offer wouldn't be listened to though.

Just in the same way the club wasn't for sale when groups were interested.

If the Freehold isn't for sale then Sisu should pursue other avenues if they stand by the words they have spoken.

 

[Godiva]

If the Freehold isn't for sale then Sisu should pursue other avenues if they stand by the words they have spoken.

Yes, but every time they go quiet it seems new rumors or new information about rent offers pops up.

 

[ecky]

If the Freehold isn't for sale then Sisu should pursue other avenues if they stand by the words they have spoken.

robbo sisu dont want to spend anything, they wont even accept a rent free stadium, they are waiting to get the ricoh for free which will be never, in the mean time they are using our club as a blackmailing tool..

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I am not surprised at SISU tactics....I am always pointing them out in posts because a lot of people don't seem to understand what they are about. I have often said research their history.

Yes before you make an offer you need a market value. So why haven't SISU made an offer on their calculation....I would say because they are still trying to drive the value down.

One of their tactics is to get the other side to shift then take that shift as there new starting point. Meanwhile engage in legal action to muddy the waters and distress further.

The CCC said the Ricoh was sustainable without the football team. This was post the renegotiation over mortgage/bail out, call it what you will.

They have also acknowledged they would be better with the club at the Ricoh.

Regarding this sustainability, it is not what you owe it is how the debt/repayments/interest is structured. Standard debt advice is make sure you know what you are actually paying re loans credit cards...various per cent age rate do all sorts of things...get the best deal. That could only benefit both parties in negotiations.

People seem to think CCC and ACL are purely looking at the pounds and pence. Or is this breakdown in trust to do with What would SISU do if they got the freehold and where would that leave the football club.

Lucas said something like this the other week, I will listen to anybody who puts forward a clear plan....regarding the Ricoh.

For me it is about not trusting SISUs intentions and their need to get a return on their investment. Please note there is no mention of a football club in that sentence.

Regarding the value of the Freehold you are most likely correct as we have both said previously they will continue to do anything they can which ensures that Sisu get what they want as cheaply as possible.

Ann Lucas may have said that but also said "I want the Club home for Christmas" and regarding the JR "We have never acted unlawfully" yet the club seems no closer to be returning to Coventry and the JR Application has been granted.

 

[Nick]

robbo sisu dont want to spend anything, they wont even accept a rent free stadium, they are waiting to get the ricoh for free which will be never, in the mean time they are using our club as a blackmailing tool..

Have they said they want the ricoh for free?

 

[ccfcway]

Have they said they want the ricoh for free?

its not what they say, its what they DO !

Action speak louder than words Nick

They "said" that plans would be shown for new stadium, etc etc. I really don;t want to write down the list of everything they "said" but havent done !

 

[Godiva]

Have they said they want the ricoh for free?

No, and surprisingly they haven't said they want to pay over the top.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Yes, but every time they go quiet it seems new rumors or new information about rent offers pops up.

Do you mean regarding the Ricoh Godiva?

robbo sisu dont want to spend anything, they wont even accept a rent free stadium, they are waiting to get the ricoh for free which will be never, in the mean time they are using our club as a blackmailing tool..

They won't accept it because they don't want to rent it, this has been said by Sisu themselves.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Why don't sisu make the council an offer they can't refuse?

 

[Godiva]

No, and surprisingly they haven't said they want to pay over the top.

Even though some fans think they should ...

Why don't sisu make the council an offer they can't refuse?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Why don't sisu make the council an offer they can't refuse?

It's not to long ago people were asking for a fair offer, now it's over the top, who is supposed to benefit in your eyes?

 

[Godiva]

It's not to long ago people were asking for a fair offer, now it's over the top, who is supposed to benefit in your eyes?

I don't think it's really about who benefits ... as long as sisu loses.