SISU may still be the best option! (1 Viewer)

[letsallsingtogether]

Where were you today apparently you are the only one doing anything ???

NEVER read such inane baseless ill-informed, propaganda - and THIS is a forum that has GRENDEL and the Trust trolls posting on it regularly!

These "losses" are at BEST questionable, as they are pretty much ALL in effect owed to itself! How can people be so blind that they STILL support sisu after evwerything they have done!

Even by their OWN figures, the rent is NOT the problem, as the losses are GREATER than the rent - even is they had the ricoh for FREE (which BTW would be letting down not just the fans of coventry city, but EVERY SINGLE COUNCIL TAX PAYER IN COVENTRY!)

But when you consider that the losses are £3million, then it puts into perspective the £2.6 million in management charges!

Are you Mr Linnell in another guise? Only someone with a vested interest in sisu, could come out with such pathetic dross as this!

MAYBE it is a sarcastic post, in which case it could be understandable, but even the apologists within the trust surely would never try this!

To say sisu haven't been perfect owners is the UNDERSTATEMENT of the millenium. I cannot think of how they could have been any worse!

They have ACTIVELY attacked the protesting fans (I was there at that disgraceful day when they ripped down the protest flags), they have stripped the team beyond the minimum, they have proceeded with the appointment of 2 of the worst managers in the history of the club. They have tried blackmail threats, intimidation, downright lies, having a director in the dugout on matchdays.

AND YET.....

SOME STILL SUPPORT SISU!!!!

WHAT PRECISELY WOULD THEY NEED TO DO FOR SOME PEOPLE TO REALISE THEY ARE NO GOOD FOR THE TEAM?

HOW IS IT THAT PEOPLE DEFEND A HEDGE FUND OVER THE TEAM???

I find it laughable that there are some out there SO deluded, they are happy for sisu to strip the club apart, yet get hot under the colour over CAPITAL LETTERS!

SOME PEOPLE SEEM TO HAVE THEIR PRIORITIES WRONG!

It seems the ONLY way to support the team is by not giving ONE PENNY MORE to this club.

And quite frankly ANY FAN who thinks otherwise, as far as I am concerned is a traitor to the club!

I and a few others have stated for YEARS the ONLY way to get rid of sisu is a TOTAL boycott!

Seems it has taken a while, and there seems some will NEVER get how offensive these people are, but FINALLY people are understanding I was RIGHT all along!

GET OUT OF COVENTRY SISU - YOU ARE NOT REPEAT NOT WELCOME ANYMORE

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

Accept the 400k per year rent. Plus access to revenues.

ACL rejected the offer to renegotiate, and because they did, we, unfortunately, don't know if SISU would've accepted that. Nevertheless, that point is actually quite irrelevant because we rejected that offer about 2-3 months before we came back to renegotiate and the offer was off the table by then, therefore, you're still not answering my question, well, not properly anyway.

 

[ccfc92]

ACL rejected the offer to renegotiate, and because they did, we, unfortunately, don't know if SISU would've accepted that. Nevertheless, that point is actually quite irrelevant because we rejected that offer about 2-3 months before we came back to renegotiate and the offer was off the table by then, therefore, you're still not answering my question, well, not properly anyway.

You've answered your own question. Your question basically is, acl said there's no more negotiations. So that doesn't mean their are no offers. So the ball was in sisu's court. They either accept or go elsewhere.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

That season we only survived on GD, and without SISU coming in when they did - supposedly 30m from admin - we would've went into admin, 10 points get deducted and that would mean relegation - there's your proof.

Urhm. No. Your assertion is still conjecture. Let me give you another scenario, albeit one with at least some maths to it.

When SISU bought the club, we were 14th, with 29 points from 21 games. That's 1.38 points per game.

We finished in 21st, with 53 points from our 46 games.

If they hadn't come in, we'd have entered administration with it's 10 point deduction but if we'd have maintained our pre-SISU form, we'd have ended up with 63 points, minus 10 equals 53 still.

So, in this world, we enter administration and still survive, as Leicester went down with 52 points. Not goal difference.

See, another scenario. But conjecture. Whereas you insist your view represents fact. See?

 

[lordsummerisle]

You have no proof that would be our fate. That's absolute conjecture on your behalf as it suits your argument.

And if you genuinely believe it's ACL's fault alone we are now looking to play outside of Coventry, you're delusional in the extreme

God forbid that anybody should use conjecture to suit somebodys argument eh MMM?

To be fair, we would most likely have ended up relegated that season if Sisu hadn't come in and we'd gone into admin, the 10 point deduction and loss of players, possibly manager, etc would probably have cost us.

Which may have been better for us in the long run , drinking the nasty medicine quickly always better than sipping it over a long time, becomes far more unpalatable then.

That is of course assuming that you beleive the "ticking clock" scenario of Joe Elliott, which I personally don't.

Think that the club extinction line being trotted out at the time was totally artificial anyway, the board at the time had too much invested, both financially and politically to let it go under, but didn't fancy ploughing any more money in if they could help it.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

They took over in December 2007 and completed by getting the 90% of shares in Feb 2008. They sacked Dowie and appointed the permatan man who didn't set the club alight. We will never know if the 30 mins from admin line was true or not . It does remind me of other famous ones like " Saddam has weapons of mass destruction" or " I have 24hrs to save the NHS" or “People have to understand we do not posture, we do not threaten, because that is not how you do business, you only do business in good faith. Always.".

ACL refused to re negotiate after the 400K deal had been shaken on , then famously renaged upon. Please do get the facts right if you are going to spout off inane bollocks.

should have went crawling back and asked if they could please accept the 400k deal and said that we are really sorry and it wont happen again.

How do you know this didn't happen when SISU asked to renegotiate but to be refused by ACL. :facepalm:

I think it was likely that if that deadline passed, we would've went to admin, I'm sorry but to speculate otherwise is kidding yourself into believing that it was all SISU who got us relegated to L1 - it would've happened if they didn't come into town - any neutral would tell you this.

What part of my post is 'inane bollocks' - the rejection of the 400k offer is irrelevant because when ACL rejected the offer to renegotiate we don't know if SISU would've compromised, they were defeated men/women.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Urhm. No. Your assertion is still conjecture. Let me give you another scenario, albeit one with at least some maths to it.

When SISU bought the club, we were 14th, with 29 points from 21 games. That's 1.38 points per game.

We finished in 21st, with 53 points from our 46 games.

If they hadn't come in, we'd have entered administration with it's 10 point deduction but if we'd have maintained our pre-SISU form, we'd have ended up with 63 points, minus 10 equals 53 still.

So, in this world, we enter administration and still survive, as Leicester went down with 52 points. Not goal difference.

See, another scenario. But conjecture. Whereas you insist your view represents fact. See?

In your scenario we were getting promoted after the first few games most seasons, so this conversation probably wouldn't exist with us in the Prem.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

God forbid that anybody should use conjecture to suit somebodys argument eh MMM?

To be fair, we would most likely have ended up relegated that season if Sisu hadn't come in and we'd gone into admin, the 10 point deduction and loss of players, possibly manager, etc would probably have cost us.

Which may have been better for us in the long run , drinking the nasty medicine quickly always better than sipping it over a long time, becomes far more unpalatable then.

That is of course assuming that you beleive the "ticking clock" scenario of Joe Elliott, which I personally don't.

Think that the club extinction line being trotted out at the time was totally artificial anyway, the board at the time had too much invested, both financially and politically to let it go under, but didn't fancy ploughing any more money in if they could help it.

'Most likely'? In italics? Did you try your best not to agree with me that it was conjecture? But know that deep down inside I was right? You can always hit the 'like' button next time. It saves the keyboard

 

[procdoc]

Didn't SISU agree to 400k plus some revenue streams and a payment plan to pay the back rent? ACL stated at the time this was their final offer so how is it ACL not willing to negotiate when they had reached an agreement?

 

[lordsummerisle]

'Most likely'? In italics? Did you try your best not to agree with me that it was conjecture? But know that deep down inside I was right? You can always hit the 'like' button next time. It saves the keyboard

It was conjecture, but you've hardly been a stranger to that on this forum MMM.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

In your scenario we were getting promoted after the first few games most seasons, so this conversation probably wouldn't exist with us in the Prem.

See. You like the game. It's called the Taylor Tombola.

You rotate the drum and pull out a scenario that suits your agrument. I admire the bold nature of your Premiership-ticket. What colour is it?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It was conjecture, but you've hardly been a stranger to that on this forum MMM.

You should never lie to a liar

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Urhm. No. Your assertion is still conjecture. Let me give you another scenario, albeit one with at least some maths to it.

When SISU bought the club, we were 14th, with 29 points from 21 games. That's 1.38 points per game.

We finished in 21st, with 53 points from our 46 games.

If they hadn't come in, we'd have entered administration with it's 10 point deduction but if we'd have maintained our pre-SISU form, we'd have ended up with 63 points, minus 10 equals 53 still.

So, in this world, we enter administration and still survive, as Leicester went down with 52 points. Not goal difference.

See, another scenario. But conjecture. Whereas you insist your view represents fact. See?

I'm sorry but that's counter-factual, that didn't happen and I don't know how SISU would've had anything to do with our form dipping? Dowie got sacked because we were on poor form after starting strongly, your maths is based on pure speculation and have no weight for them, I can't believe, after that, you had the cheek to say my assertions are conjecture!? The first Jan window SISU were owners, we signed Fox and Dann who were both quality and shored up our defence.

It is likely that we would've went into admin, I don't see how that I disputable.

 

[procdoc]

The first Jan window SISU were owners, we signed Fox and Dann who were both quality and shored up our defence.

You've forgot to mention the part where we sold them for absolute peanuts

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I'm sorry but that's counter-factual, that didn't happen and I don't know how SISU would've had anything to do with our form dipping? Dowie got sacked because we were on poor form after starting strongly, your maths is based on pure speculation and have no weight for them, I can't believe, after that, you had the cheek to say my assertions are conjecture!? The first Jan window SISU were owners, we signed Fox and Dann who were both quality and shored up our defence.

No. It's based on actual performance. It's a shite formula, I concur, but it equals your logic. Which is kinda worrying

 

[DaleM]

Without SISU's intervention, we would've got relegated to L1 5 years before, in fact, the club has been in decline since relegation from the prem, since it was ACL who refused to talk, CCFC haven't got an alternative but to play outside of Coventry - a fact people are forgetting.

The biggest mistake of our clubs history, leaving HR, was a decision made by Robinson and co. we left our home and couldn't afford to move into the RICOH, that decision folks still has repercussions because it means today we get nothing from F&B, but worse still, we pay 1.28m in rent and we miss out on a lot of events that come to the stadium, Bon Jovi, Olympics etc. it isn't SISU's fault they've been burdened by this rent and have missed out on all this revenue.

I almost forgot, selling players, before SISU were a selling club, who had to sell to keep us going, the 2 examples that immediately spring to mind are Davenport and McSheffrey - the ones that actually made me upset as a kid - I was in a strop for the day and a half after we sold Sheff would you believe,

This isn't 'sticking up' for SISU, it's recognising that the problems CCFC face are more long term than people think, or have many people on here got amnesia?

How do you know this didn't happen when SISU asked to renegotiate but to be refused by ACL. :facepalm:

I think it was likely that if that deadline passed, we would've went to admin, I'm sorry but to speculate otherwise is kidding yourself into believing that it was all SISU who got us relegated to L1 - it would've happened if they didn't come into town - any neutral would tell you this.

What part of my post is 'inane bollocks' - the rejection of the 400k offer is irrelevant because when ACL rejected the offer to renegotiate we don't know if SISU would've compromised, they were defeated men/women.

How do you know we would have been relegated " Inane Bollocks"
FACT is we do not pay rent "Inane Bollocks"
FACT Sisu did get us relegated to League 1 and has put CCFC into the worst position for 50 odd years " Inane Bollocks"

Nick can we have an "Inane Bollocks" Avatar ?

I could go on highlighting bits of your post can't be arsed.

 

[torchomatic]

No more conjecture than when people say if SISU got their hands on the stadium then they'd chuck the club out. People seem to take that as gospel. So much so that the fools even wrote begging letters to Mutton asking them not to sell a share of the Ricoh to CCFC.

You have no proof that would be our fate. That's absolute conjecture on your behalf as it suits your argument.

And if you genuinely believe it's ACL's fault alone we are now looking to play outside of Coventry, you're delusional in the extreme

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

No more conjecture than when people say if SISU got their hands on the stadium then they'd chuck the club out. People seem to take that as gospel. So much so that the fools even wrote begging letters to Mutton asking them not to sell a share of the Ricoh to CCFC.

I agree. That's bollocks of an equally impresive magnitude.

Did that insanity come out of the Taylor Tombola too?

 

[skybluehugh]

I hold a balanced view too. The fact is - & as unpalatable as some might think it - SISU may yet still be our only realistic option!
The best bid for the main creditors is ultimately the winner...as SISU (in various guises) form the bulk of the creditors. They are best placed to know what the best bid will be from their side...so will be best placed to match it.

If they are our only option then we have none. if they stay in charge the club is truly finished, as we have no ground, I really can not see any other club letting us use theirs unless Shitsu pay a massive amount of rent up front (and if they can afford to do that on the few fans that would be attending, then why not pay the rent they owe) we only have a chance if new owners come in.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Sorry guys, not ducking, I have to go out now!
I hope I have given some food for thought though!

imp:

Sticking in the craw.

 

[Jack Griffin]

No more conjecture than when people say if SISU got their hands on the stadium then they'd chuck the club out. People seem to take that as gospel. So much so that the fools even wrote begging letters to Mutton asking them not to sell a share of the Ricoh to CCFC.

You still have an utter inability to understand their motivation and that it is utterly incompatible with running a football club as the community asset it is.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You've forgot to mention the part where we sold them for absolute peanuts

5.5m combined weren't too bad, actually. 1.5m for Fox was ridiculous, but, we don't know how desperate our financial situation was which wed have to factor in.

 

[lordsummerisle]

5.5m combined weren't too bad, actually. 1.5m for Fox was ridiculous, but, we don't know how desperate our financial situation was which wed have to factor in.

I hink the accounts showed we only got about £3million for them at the time?

Another success story for the fabled hard-nosed negotiatiating skills of Ranson.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Without SISU's intervention, we would've got relegated to L1 5 years before - we were joint 22nd but had a better GD than Leicester and minus 10 pts would've seen us safely in the relegation zone, in fact, the club has been in decline since relegation from the prem, since it was ACL who refused to talk, CCFC haven't got an alternative but to play outside of Coventry - a fact people are forgetting.

The biggest mistake of our clubs history, leaving HR, was a decision made by Robinson and co. we left our home and couldn't afford to move into the RICOH, that decision folks still has repercussions because it means today we get nothing from F&B, but worse still, we pay 1.28m - referring to when agreement was first struck - in rent and we miss out on a lot of events that come to the stadium, Bon Jovi, Olympics etc. it isn't SISU's fault they've been burdened by this rent and have missed out on all this revenue.

I almost forgot, selling players, before SISU were a selling club, who had to sell to keep us going, the 2 examples that immediately spring to mind are Davenport and McSheffrey - the ones that actually made me upset as a kid - I was in a strop for the day and a half after we sold Sheff would you believe,

This isn't 'sticking up' for SISU, it's recognising that the problems CCFC face are more long term than people think, or have many people on here got amnesia?



How do you know we would have been relegated " Inane Bollocks" - if we only survived on GD, it doesn't take a genius to work that -10 pts would've seen us get relegated
FACT is we do not pay rent "Inane Bollocks" - the context I said that was the consequence of leaving the RICOH and paying the rent for what, 5-7 years? When we pay our debt we would've paid our rent for the time we refused to pay.
FACT Sisu did get us relegated to League 1 and has put CCFC into the worst position for 50 odd years " Inane Bollocks" - had we gone into admin that year, we would've went down as a result of SISU's predecessors. So if anything, SISU prolonged the process

Nick can we have an "Inane Bollocks" Avatar ?

I could go on highlighting bits of your post can't be arsed.

10 characters.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I hink the accounts showed we only got about £3million for them at the time?

Another success story for the fabled hard-nosed negotiatiating skills of Ranson.

The lowest for Dann I hear is 3.5m - but for Dann, it wasn't all straight up cash, but add-ons based on appearances, promotion etc.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

See. You like the game. It's called the Taylor Tombola.

You rotate the drum and pull out a scenario that suits your agrument. I admire the bold nature of your Premiership-ticket. What colour is it?

So what do you think would've happened if the deadline passed and no buyer was found? Nothing? I don't think at '0' we would've went straight into admin, but it would've happened, but that's not to say admin would've been awful because for all we knew, we could've got lucky like S'hampton, got some billionaire as owner and went on to the prem, but likewise, it could've gone like Pompey, but I think it is very, very likely admin would've happened and therefore, we would've got relegated.

Or do you know something I don't?

 

[dadgad]

Why would DMc have stayed here if he was being chased by clubs in the Championship? I am sure the club made him a very good offer, or would you have preferred the club to have spent money it didn't have, which has got us into this mess in the first place? There is only so much you can do to try and get someone to resign, if the players wants to go, then they will go. Just like Keiren Westwood.

.....and so it turns in ever decreasing circles until its blighting its own tail. Your logic is brainless.

 

[DaleM]

The lowest for Dann I hear is 3.5m - but for Dann, it wasn't all straight up cash, but add-ons based on appearances, promotion etc.

Who did you hear it off ? Some bloke in the pub or the friend of a friend of the groundsmans wife . Or is it more conjecture / inane bollocks ?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Who did you hear it off ? Some bloke in the pub or the friend of a friend of the groundsmans wife . Or is it more conjecture / inane bollocks ?

No the telegraph.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-land-cash-windfall-3043002

 

[The Penguin]

No the telegraph.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...news/coventry-city-land-cash-windfall-3043002

The Telegraph?

Conjecture and inane bollocks it is!

 

[wingy]

I hink the accounts showed we only got about £3million for them at the time?

Another success story for the fabled hard-nosed negotiatiating skills of Ranson.

You know I'm no fan of his and there is view the quoted figures are for want of a better word SHY.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So what do you think would've happened if the deadline passed and no buyer was found? Nothing? I don't think at '0' we would've went straight into admin, but it would've happened, but that's not to say admin would've been awful because for all we knew, we could've got lucky like S'hampton, got some billionaire as owner and went on to the prem, but likewise, it could've gone like Pompey, but I think it is very, very likely admin would've happened and therefore, we would've got relegated.

Or do you know something I don't?

I actually agree with LS here, insomuch as the threat of administration was largely posturing; many of the stakeholders had too much invested to enter administration at the time.

That stated, even if we'd done so, and entered administration; if we'd have maintained the same form in the same season form post-SISU as we did pre-SISU, we'd still have survived even with a 10 point deduction.

The difference between SISU and other suitors was they they were the only game in town pre-administration - even if that had happened. In the event of administration, a clean slate, chance to renegotiate contracts (such as the Ricoh), then other parties would surely have come into play; exactly as they are now - even in our perilous position.

What I can tell you is that for the last 10 years, this is a list of teams of a 'similar size' as us who have entered administration: Hull City, Queens Park Rangers, Barnsley, Leicester City, Derby County, Ipswich Town, Leeds United, Southampton, Crystal Palace, Portsmouth. I don't think it's black as 'lucky' Southampton or 'unlucky' Pompey; the majority are now better off than where they were.

It's no good labouring on about Luton, Darlington or Northwich Victoria as they didn't have the league position or infrastructure that we had at the time of potential purchase.

Maybe some of the parties now at the table could have bought us then; and aped what some of the teams in the list have? Christ, if they're interested now; they'd be eminently more liable to be so with us at 14th in the Championship with 18K crowds.

Instead we got SISU. The rest is a chronology of historical facts.....

 

[James Smith]

They weren't that unknown at the time, the same information about their way of doing business was available then as it is now.

Just people didn't want to listen then, people don't want to listen now either much.

There has always been tunnel vision about Sisu, it's just that they're looking from the other end of the tunnel now.

I'll admit that at the time I did see Sisu as preferable to Administration and like a light at the end of the tunnel. Sadly the light turned out to be a train that ran us down, like others I have now seen the error of my ways. Never knew they had history of being a nightmare and hope more scrutiny is put into our next "saviours".

 

[DaleM]

No the telegraph.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...news/coventry-city-land-cash-windfall-3043002

or this one that states undisclosed

http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/12/birmingham-sign-scott-dann-coventry

 

[simple_simon]

How do you know this didn't happen when SISU asked to renegotiate but to be refused by ACL. :facepalm:

I think it was likely that if that deadline passed, we would've went to admin, I'm sorry but to speculate otherwise is kidding yourself into believing that it was all SISU who got us relegated to L1 - it would've happened if they didn't come into town - any neutral would tell you this.

What part of my post is 'inane bollocks' - the rejection of the 400k offer is irrelevant because when ACL rejected the offer to renegotiate we don't know if SISU would've compromised, they were defeated men/women.

The part where you believe a single word SISU say !