Sisu's Thinking... (1 Viewer)

[simple_simon]

SISU want a ground where we shall get 100% of the income.

Without the income we shall not be able to comply with the Financial Fair Play ruling (maximum 60% of income can be spent of players' wages). Without complying with the FFP we will not have a competitive team, thus spiralling down the leagues.

Hence why if we ground share we will strike a deal where we receive all revenue streams of income.

The other option of course is to go to the previous regime, which was to pay £1.2 million a year and receive feck all. Wuld even say the 400k regime but that's still not good enough.

The only way forward is to own/have a tenancy agreement where CCFC receive all streams of revenue. If that means building a new stadium then so be it.

But we will not own the new ground. We will be renting it from SISU and there investors.

 

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[sky blue john]

Interesting that the brainwashed types on here are still banging in on about ffp because all sisu want to do is make more to take more out !!!!
ffp is smoke screen bullshit !!!

 

[Godiva]

But we will not own the new ground. We will be renting it from SISU and there investors.

The new stadium will be owned by a company in the SBS&L group ... be part of the club.
Read my post on page one.

 

[Sick Boy]

What part of they sold that for £6.5M don't you understand.. and £19.8M is pie in the sky figure, how do you make that old nonsense up, ACL have only ever made limited profits and they still owe £14M a cost incurred for building the Arena, an asset the club have paid nothing towards.

Do you actually support the football club? The only posts I have ever seen from you are ACL spin and criticising the club as a whole.

 

[Godiva]

Interesting that the brainwashed types on here are still banging in on about ffp because all sisu want to do is make more to take more out !!!!
ffp is smoke screen bullshit !!!

How is it a smoke screen?
How can sisu make more to take out more?

 

[simple_simon]

Fisher said at one of the forums the actual owners have yet to be confirmed.
Where else but from investors would they raise the money, how would these people get a return.
Lets face it, SISU do not care.

 

[Godiva]

Fisher said at one of the forums the actual owners have yet to be confirmed.
Where else but from investors would they raise the money, how would these people get a return.
Lets face it, SISU do not care.

They buy a suitable ground (larger than needed for a stadium alone). Now they have an asset. Then they get planning permission to build a stadium - probably a 20k seater. Then they start selling off pieces of the surrounding land to other parties. That generate a profit. Other parties will build hotel, shops, fastfood outlets etc. That attract more people, generate more businesses and activities. That increases the land value - thereby increase the asset value of the land still owned by a company in the SB&L group.

The stadium is finansed by the land sale and a mortgage.

All activities inside the stadium will be run by a 'ACL' equivalent owned by a company in the SBS&L group. That way all income streams will benefit the club towards profitability and the FFP.
It would make no sense if a company outside the SBS&L group owned and operated the stadium as that would only duplicate the disaster of Ricoh/ACL. To be able to later sell the club and regain their investment the club and stadium must be in the same company group.

(echo cho ho o)

 

[sky blue john]

How is it a smoke screen?
How can sisu make more to take out more?

Godiva im surprised you don't understand their business model !!!
right i will explain ccfc get a loan off arvo against ryton whilst paying this loan back the interest is building it doesn't matter that ccfc will never be able to pay the full inflated amount back. The interest is allowing the debt to grow. At the same time sisu are taking their cut in the way of management fees for arranging the loan and administration work.
Also this arrangement is replicated when ccfc borrow each year against future season tickets.
Get the picture Godiva ?

 

[Godiva]

Godiva im surprised you don't understand their business model !!!
right i will explain ccfc get a loan off arvo against ryton whilst paying this loan back the interest is building it doesn't matter that ccfc will never be able to pay the full inflated amount back. The interest is allowing the debt to grow. At the same time sisu are taking their cut in the way of management fees for arranging the loan and administration work.
Also this arrangement is replicated when ccfc borrow each year against future season tickets.
Get the picture Godiva ?

Yes I see. There's only one problem - the loans are not carrying any interest.

 

[blend]

Sorry chaps - the new ground is all bollox!! It only exists in your imagination!! Get a grip on reality. I know you want to believe but you're far from the truth. Don't you think SISu came for some reason. Those who think they do not have a plan, did not do due diligence and are failing are completely wrong. It is going exactly to plan!!

 

[Godiva]

Sorry chaps - the new ground is all bollox!! It only exists in your imagination!! Get a grip on reality. I know you want to believe but you're far from the truth. Don't you think SISu came for some reason. Those who think they do not have a plan, did not do due diligence and are failing are completely wrong. It is going exactly to plan!!

What is the plan then? Keep pouring millions into a deep dark hole without any intention of getting anything back?

 

[blend]

They're probably breaking even now, have been for a while and are extracting money to the Cayman Isles company - the one we will never get to see the accounts of. Meanwhile they could get their hands on the main goal - The Ricoh. You don't matter and neither does the club. Once they get The Ricoh they build it up using their expertise and sell it off. It don't matter what division we're in really by then does it? Why do you think a filthy rich company used to trading would mortgage future season ticket sales.......? Come on that one is an easy answer!!!

 

[Godiva]

They're probably breaking even now, have been for a while and are extracting money to the Cayman Isles company - the one we will never get to see the accounts of. Meanwhile they could get their hands on the main goal - The Ricoh. You don't matter and neither does the club. Once they get The Ricoh they build it up using their expertise and sell it off. It don't matter what division we're in really by then does it? Why do you think a filthy rich company used to trading would mortgage future season ticket sales.......? Come on that one is an easy answer!!!

But we will get to see the club and group accounts, so if any money take off for the caymans we will know.
Still - it will take a while to extract more than the £30m they have put in - especially as there are no assets to sell and even more so if the club is only just breaking even.

And the easy answer to your question about mortgaging ST's is: No investor put in more money than is needed. Mortgaging the ST is common practice to gain cash flow in the close season when income is low or none. Many clubs do it, we are not alone.

 

[blend]

But we will get to see the club and group accounts, so if any money take off for the caymans we will know.
Still - it will take a while to extract more than the £30m they have put in - especially as there are no assets to sell and even more so if the club is only just breaking even.

And the easy answer to your question about mortgaging ST's is: No investor put in more money than is needed. Mortgaging the ST is common practice to gain cash flow in the close season when income is low or none. Many clubs do it, we are not alone.

I understand what you are saying Godiva, but the reality is that the group accounts are difficult to read and we actually have to guess regarding some of the movements of money. You seem quite trusting of the as owners - whilst I come from a position of distrust. I'm not arguing with you, I guess we will always disagree coming from those different positions.

The answer to mortgaging STs becomes even more of a business no brainer when you know that you are unlikely to be playing in the same division, same stadium or same fan base.

I firmly believe that their business plan is not dependant on us being a successful football team. It'd this along with the constant mis-truths that is really putting a lot of people off.

Your own thoughts of a new ground are misguided, but being astute as you are, I think that you would secretly own up to knowing this anyway but are keen for fans to believe the hype.

 

[sky blue john]

at the meetings we were told the accounts wrong is that normal business practice ?

 

[Godiva]

I understand what you are saying Godiva, but the reality is that the group accounts are difficult to read and we actually have to guess regarding some of the movements of money. You seem quite trusting of the as owners - whilst I come from a position of distrust. I'm not arguing with you, I guess we will always disagree coming from those different positions.

The answer to mortgaging STs becomes even more of a business no brainer when you know that you are unlikely to be playing in the same division, same stadium or same fan base.

I firmly believe that their business plan is not dependant on us being a successful football team. It'd this along with the constant mis-truths that is really putting a lot of people off.

Your own thoughts of a new ground are misguided, but being astute as you are, I think that you would secretly own up to knowing this anyway but are keen for fans to believe the hype.

I trust one thing about our owners - they want to make money. As every owner would. And I believe they will build a new stadium as that makes sense from a business perspective. Owning ACL would also make sense, and they even agreed with the council (or council leadership) a plan to get there. As that didn't happen - their next best choice is building their own stadium.

They have been extremely poor in getting the fans to understand this and any money they have spent on PR activity they should demand refunded!

 

[SBS]

In all of this, I don't really think SISU's thinking has been the problem. Where they've messed up big time is their communication. They've seemingly burnt all bridges with ACL, started making threats of liquidation and relocation, then made a half arsed attempt to speak to the fans, who have already been pissed off. For this reason, Fisher has to go.

 

[jesus-wept]

Can someone come on and explain in detail just what extra income there is to be had other than gate receipts, pies and beer. I think sisu already get some of corperate income on matchdays.

 

[Hells_Bells299]

If you couldn't afford the rent when u take a property over would u not negotiate over the tables as adults/businessmen would? Sisu are exactly where they want us...crippled, breaking and precisely how many pies need to be eaten, fisher looks like he's made a start!

 

[Godiva]

Can someone come on and explain in detail just what extra income there is to be had other than gate receipts, pies and beer. I think sisu already get some of corperate income on matchdays.

You can look at ACL's accounts and then add their results and their assets to the clubs.
Then optimize the ACL operation.
You should now have a good idea of what sisu want for the club.

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

I trust one thing about our owners - they want to make money. As every owner would. And I believe they will build a new stadium as that makes sense from a business perspective. Owning ACL would also make sense, and they even agreed with the council (or council leadership) a plan to get there. As that didn't happen - their next best choice is building their own stadium.

They have been extremely poor in getting the fans to understand this and any money they have spent on PR activity they should demand refunded!

You can build a small stadium for £20 million.

You can't build the stadium and the offices, the hotel, shopping complex etc for £20 million. Its the extra bits that actually make ACL more money than the rent on the stadium.

 

[bigfatronssba]

<p>

£100k allows for more manoeuvrability than £0k...</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>SISU lovers!? You don't have a clue.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>No. One. Likes. SISU!</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>All I'm going to say is since we've moved to the RICOH, we've nearly, or have gone into administration twice, this didn't happen whilst we were at HR, the differences? No revenue and crippling rent...

We would have gone into admin in 2003 had the higgs not bailed us out.

 

[Godiva]

You can build a small stadium for £20 million.

You can't build the stadium and the offices, the hotel, shopping complex etc for £20 million. Its the extra bits that actually make ACL more money than the rent on the stadium.

I don't recall Fisher or anyone quoting a build price of £20m. It's a myth created when Fisher said the Rotherham stadium would be used as a model - due to it's modularity. That also created the myth that the new stadium would only be a 12k seater.

 

[bigfatronssba]

<p>

You can look at ACL's accounts and then add their results and their assets to the clubs.</p>
<p>Then optimize the ACL operation.</p>
<p>You should now have a good idea of what sisu want for the club.

You mean all the concerts and conferences?

Why would someone like Bruce Springsteen play in a 12k in Brandon when he could be playing to a 40k well proven stadium in a large British city?

The new stadium will make no money.

 

[Godiva]

<p>

You mean all the concerts and conferences?

Why would someone like Bruce Springsteen play in a 12k in Brandon when he could be playing to a 40k well proven stadium in a large British city?

The new stadium will make no money.

I don't know it will be in Brandon, so you must have insight knowledge to state that as a fact.
There are not many concerts in the Springsteen league, but a smaller venue can attract more concerts in the league just below The Boss and may even make more money.

 

[bigfatronssba]

<p>

I don't know it will be in Brandon, so you must have insight knowledge to state that as a fact. </p>
<p>There are not many concerts in the Springsteen league, but a smaller venue can attract more concerts in the league just below The Boss and may even make more money.

Well regardless of whether its Brandon or not, it certainly wont be in Coventry.

If this mythical stadium goes ahead, the Ricoh will most certainly be transformed into a pure exhibition centre.

With something like that on its doorstep this new stadium wont be able to compete. Smaller concerts will continue to be held in the exhibition hall.

 

[georgehudson]

following that train of thought then,
why didn't sisu hire & promote pop concerts @ the ricoh ?
Igwe Pop & The Stooges would have brought in a good profit,
oops sorry for the typo

 

[Godiva]

<p>

Well regardless of whether its Brandon or not, it certainly wont be in Coventry.

If this mythical stadium goes ahead, the Ricoh will most certainly be transformed into a pure exhibition centre.

With something like that on its doorstep this new stadium wont be able to compete. Smaller concerts will continue to be held in the exhibition hall.

And if the Ricoh is transformed into a pure exhibition center, then why can't the new stadium be in Coventry?

 

[dongonzalos]

Nene park.....

You have a stadium built

You have planning permission on it already for a hotel

The stadium cost 30 million and is desperate for business

You have the golden share for league one

Your only stumbling block is the wet lettuce (FA)

Hope you can read between the lines.......

 

[Jack Griffin]

Yes I see. There's only one problem - the loans are not carrying any interest.

Surely you are not so naive to believe that!

 

[blend]

You could build a £20m stadium if you wanted too......you could also bullshit about building one hoping that enough people would believe you so that it actually became a plan. Don't believe people, without belief there is no plan just a mirage of utter bullshit.

 

[Astute]

I don't recall Fisher or anyone quoting a build price of £20m. It's a myth created when Fisher said the Rotherham stadium would be used as a model - due to it's modularity. That also created the myth that the new stadium would only be a 12k seater.

I agree with you. The new stadium thing is a myth. There will not be one.

 

[mattylad]

Nene park.....

You have a stadium built

You have planning permission on it already for a hotel

The stadium cost 30 million and is desperate for business

You have the golden share for league one

Your only stumbling block is the wet lettuce (FA)

Hope you can read between the lines.......

I keep telling people that Cov is a busted flush for SISU! they are going, they will gain new visitors not weighed down by the burden of failure we carry, they will state umpteen reasons why they can't come back and will never come back! The yanks move sport franchises from state to state all the time.

 

[BrisbaneBronco]

I keep telling people that Cov is a busted flush for SISU! they are going, they will gain new visitors not weighed down by the burden of failure we carry, they will state umpteen reasons why they can't come back and will never come back! The yanks move sport franchises from state to state all the time.

I agree with you. Brody was always banging on about franchising. If you don't get the support in one area whether it be from council or fan base, you simply move out of town.
Doubt whether league would approve this though, they would not want another MK Dons situation. But they would not have a problem with us playing at Nene Park for 3 yrs.

 

[bigfatronssba]

<p>

And if the Ricoh is transformed into a pure exhibition center, then why can't the new stadium be in Coventry?

Where and who would give planning permission?