lewys33
Well-Known Member
I don't really agree with that personally. For one you put intelligent racists ......
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
I don't really agree with that personally. For one you put intelligent racists ......
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Yes, a bit of an oxymoron. But the point is sound IMO; racists generally go for people with different coloured skin - Europeans are all white but the Indians, Malaysians, Africans etc. who will be able to come in greater numbers if we were not in Europe are not.
lewys33
Well-Known Member
Agreed - but I would say the UK population feels the same about Eastern Europeans. The other reason they want out is they are thinking half of Syria and 75% of turkey are on the way.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Syria and Turkey I buy. Eastern Europeans; really?
lewys33
Well-Known Member
Probably not to the same extent but I think so yes.
Agreed if it's not out and out Racism it's resentment.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I'm absolutely sick of this shit.
The latest thing to do the rounds is a picture saying 'if you're not sure, vote remain. We can always decide again in the future.'
If the EU was democratic then they wouldn't be shutting the door in our faces should we decide to leave due to a public vote anyway. Fear has captured most people in the middle ground I'd say, and that picture being shared 330k times is probably enough to shift 1% in the Remain direction.
I was on the fence originally, but this appalling campaign from the Remain brigade, and all the Facebook politicians telling people they're idiots for voting leave has made we want to do just that.
What a sour state of things.
The latest thing to do the rounds is a picture saying 'if you're not sure, vote remain. We can always decide again in the future.'
If the EU was democratic then they wouldn't be shutting the door in our faces should we decide to leave due to a public vote anyway. Fear has captured most people in the middle ground I'd say, and that picture being shared 330k times is probably enough to shift 1% in the Remain direction.
I was on the fence originally, but this appalling campaign from the Remain brigade, and all the Facebook politicians telling people they're idiots for voting leave has made we want to do just that.
What a sour state of things.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
...unlike the pure as the driven snow campaign from 'leave'... Posters of immigrants manipulated to a use beyond the original photo, with disturbing shades of propaganda, economists compared to Nazis, and fronted by a gentleman sacked for lying in the past, who has lied again during this campaign. I don't especially see how one can decide that a campaign to stay in the EU has been 'fear' compared to its opponent.
Anyway, nobody seems to have actually countered any of the points raised in this particular post, I've just returned to this thread to see a load of soundbytes over and over...
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mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I didn't realise you were expecting a response to the post - here's an attempt
a) ECONOMY. No brainer, much better in. Not proven and certainly not a no-brainer. a) Economists are all talking about GDP - GDP growth doesn't equate to wealth of individuals and I calculated that if the population continued to grow by 330k per year, GDP would rise to the levels being discussed from that alone. b) If we leave and the fx rate falls then there would be no difference in sales to the EU and sales to everywhere else would rise . c) We can negotiate trade deals much faster than the EU - because we only need to get 2 countries to agree. This is my problem with Remain, pretending it's all obvious and it most certainly isn't.
b) MONEY WE GIVE TO THE EU! Not something that concerns me personally but we do give a lot to the EU. The rebate is not a guarantee and so the number could well rise from the current net figure. Even at the net figure the contributions sum to £10b, which is 1.5% of tax income and equal to the current deficit - so effectively the country takes on debt every year just to pay the fee.
c) IMMIGRATION. Nobody is disputing that some immigration is good - the issue is the size of uncontrolled immigration which is unpredictable and does put a strain on services despite any claims to the contrary. It is and will also put increasing pressure on housing and if it continues I believe we will see people living in tents in shanty towns before long. There have already been news stories about people living 10 to a house and in the garden shed.
d) THE NHS. Yes but nobody is saying there will be no immigration are they? So pretending that it's binary and the NHS will suffer staff-shortages is rubbish. Further, how can people pretend that adding 330k people a year into the country will not put a strain on services?
e) EU RED-TAPE? Well, that’s all a bit rubbish too. But it's true. Saying it's rubbish doesn't change the fact that the EU is a bureaucratic organisation.
f) SOVEREIGNITY. What does that even mean? Again not one that particularly worries me but it is also true. What is worse is that the people making up all these rules aren't even elected.
g) NORWAY AND SWITZERLAND. If we end up paying the same and accepting free movement to avoid the trade tariffs then I agree it's daft. However it does give us flexibility to decide whatever is best - we currently have no choice.
a) ECONOMY. No brainer, much better in. Not proven and certainly not a no-brainer. a) Economists are all talking about GDP - GDP growth doesn't equate to wealth of individuals and I calculated that if the population continued to grow by 330k per year, GDP would rise to the levels being discussed from that alone. b) If we leave and the fx rate falls then there would be no difference in sales to the EU and sales to everywhere else would rise . c) We can negotiate trade deals much faster than the EU - because we only need to get 2 countries to agree. This is my problem with Remain, pretending it's all obvious and it most certainly isn't.
b) MONEY WE GIVE TO THE EU! Not something that concerns me personally but we do give a lot to the EU. The rebate is not a guarantee and so the number could well rise from the current net figure. Even at the net figure the contributions sum to £10b, which is 1.5% of tax income and equal to the current deficit - so effectively the country takes on debt every year just to pay the fee.
c) IMMIGRATION. Nobody is disputing that some immigration is good - the issue is the size of uncontrolled immigration which is unpredictable and does put a strain on services despite any claims to the contrary. It is and will also put increasing pressure on housing and if it continues I believe we will see people living in tents in shanty towns before long. There have already been news stories about people living 10 to a house and in the garden shed.
d) THE NHS. Yes but nobody is saying there will be no immigration are they? So pretending that it's binary and the NHS will suffer staff-shortages is rubbish. Further, how can people pretend that adding 330k people a year into the country will not put a strain on services?
e) EU RED-TAPE? Well, that’s all a bit rubbish too. But it's true. Saying it's rubbish doesn't change the fact that the EU is a bureaucratic organisation.
f) SOVEREIGNITY. What does that even mean? Again not one that particularly worries me but it is also true. What is worse is that the people making up all these rules aren't even elected.
g) NORWAY AND SWITZERLAND. If we end up paying the same and accepting free movement to avoid the trade tariffs then I agree it's daft. However it does give us flexibility to decide whatever is best - we currently have no choice.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Both sides aren't blameless, but the Leave campaigns idiotic behaviour is not even remotely comparable to the well orchestrated, almost militants capagin of fear from Remain.
The facts aren't clear to see, they're just pushed in favour by whoever has an agenda. There's always lies, nothing concrete.
I'm voting out, not out of spite, but because I will not be bullied, scared, or looked down upon for actually considering both sides of the fence.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Frankly I thought most of the points were poorly argued - saying words like "no brainer" and "rubbish"'is hardly the sign of reasonable debate.
Fortunately Mr Trench has answered so I do not have to bother.
I always assumed given your apparent left wing leanings you'd want to leave. I never had you down as a Blairite type of socialist.
And Corbyn, Blair, Brown, Cameron and Osborne can be trusted. This has been a sham of an effort at Democracy. Remain campaign lying from start to finish propped up by a load of wet blankets and PC nutters in the media.
We have to Leave or this country and it's public services will be fucked inside 10 years !
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Turkey who have been preparing to join the EU for forty year's and are no further forward in meeting the criteria to join than they were forty years ago. It isn't going to happen.
Except they are now using the leverage of 'pay us loads of money' and give us EU membership or we let the floodgates open again..............things have changed.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Yes of course they are.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Both camps have campaigned on fear, remain on the fear of the unknown, and brexit on the fear of immigrants taking all our jobs, homes, NHS, school.
I suggest you check out the video I posted before voting. These are the facts
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Otis
Well-Known Member
Have tried to keep out of it, Stu. Not watched any of the debates, or read the papers on it and have just sought out as much info as I could myself.
Nothing has swayed my thinking to be honest.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Good post stu ......... should be compulsory viewing, especially for politicians!
reinforced my view on the economy and legal situation
It's not about race, creed or colour, it's about control and sustainability:
How can this be sustainable:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36605899
How can this be sustainable:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36605899
It's a pile of biased crap.Have just watched that though.
Yeah, bloody experts offering their fact based opinions!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
I've decided which way to vote after seeing the translation of the bribes the German paper Bild has offered...
- We'll acknowledge the Wembley goal
- We'll stop making jokes about Prince Charles's ears
- We'll stop using sun cream on the beach out of solidarity with your sunburn
- We'll reserve a place with our towels for you on the hotel sun-lounger
- We'll introduce tea breaks
- We'll turn our clocks back an hour to be in synch with you
- We'll do without a goalie in penalty shoot-outs with you to make it a bit more exciting
- We'll send (German national football manager) Joachim Low to guard your Crown Jewels
- We'll introduce an EU regulation banning a frothy head on beer
- We'll all come along to the Queen's 100th birthday
- We'll willingly provide the villain in every Bond film
Nick
Administrator
I don't think anybody has made any argument have they? Just seems like both have been throwing up random numbers and scare stories. It has been more "dont vote for the other because ...." than, "vote for this because".
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
lol dont chat shit
you wanna vote out just say it
dont act like you were forced into it
you are following farage with your own free will
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
What's wrong with Nigel farage? Tells a few home truths and what's wrong with that?
Winny the Bish
Well-Known Member
Encouraging that all the bookies have Remain as heavy favourites, going from 1/3 yesterday to 1/10 as of right now.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
LOL LOL LOL
Mmm they are still desperate............... didn't they try to come to any of her birthdays from 14th through to 20th !!?
Solid argument.
