The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (29 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

I'm becoming increasingly concerned about how the government are handling Brexit. They seem to fold quickly on everything and everytime the likes of Davies speaks he seems to be doing his best to play down what can expect to get.

Not the attitude to be going in with and certainly not the picture that was being painted by the leave campaign.

 

---

[martcov]

I'm becoming increasingly concerned about how the government are handling Brexit. They seem to fold quickly on everything and everytime the likes of Davies speaks he seems to be doing his best to play down what can expect to get.

Not the attitude to be going in with and certainly not the picture that was being painted by the leave campaign.

Basically noone knows what Brexit is. 'Brexit means Brexit' is a hollow phrase and sums the government's position up. It is a bit of make it up as you go along. Try this..doesn't work...ok, let's try this.....doesn't work.... er ....

What specifically can we realistically ask for? What do we actually want? What benefits - apart from emotional phrases like "control of our borders" ..which we already have and could strengthen even in the EU ( e.g. the Germans didn't let Rumanians and Bulgarians into the workforce for 5 years after they joined the EU )? What economic benefits do we get by negotiating our own trade agreements? E.g. will we get a better deal than the EU with Canada or Japan? Why would these countries give us preferential treatment over the EU? There are loads of unanswered questions out there and there is no guarantee that this whole episode will leave us any better off. Up until now things have been getting worse.

 

[Grendel]

Basically noone knows what Brexit is. 'Brexit means Brexit' is a hollow phrase and sums the government's position up. It is a bit of make it up as you go along. Try this..doesn't work...ok, let's try this.....doesn't work.... er ....

What specifically can we realistically ask for? What do we actually want? What benefits - apart from emotional phrases like "control of our borders" ..which we already have and could strengthen even in the EU ( e.g. the Germans didn't let Rumanians and Bulgarians into the workforce for 5 years after they joined the EU )? What economic benefits do we get by negotiating our own trade agreements? E.g. will we get a better deal than the EU with Canada or Japan? Why would these countries give us preferential treatment over the EU? There are loads of unanswered questions out there and there is no guarantee that this whole episode will leave us any better off. Up until now things have been getting worse.

It isn't getting worse. You seem far more akin with the prime ministers actual view on Europe than the leader of the opposition.

 

[martcov]

It isn't getting worse. You seem far more akin with the prime ministers actual view on Europe than the leader of the opposition.

Really? We are booming away? Brexit boom and all that? Clear decisive leadership...strong and stable? The leader of the opposition made a far better showing in the election. Still not his greatest fan, but fair play to him.
Showed himself to be more realistic than e.g. the party that wanted to bring fox hunting back or keep public service workers at pay rises below inflation... Tories even cheering at the continued "austerity" scam.

My biggest fear with Brexit, apart from no strawberry pickers ;-), is losing the City of London's strength and the reduction of the financial service industries and not being able to make up for this in the short to medium term with more manufacturing. I see us more dependent on people like Trump who will screw us over knowing that we are weakened by being outside a trading bloc. 'Us' including me as a Brit, but not including me a German resident.

Trump has flattered the Poles in the hope of fermenting dissent against the EU in the old eastern bloc countries who are scared of Putin. Hopefully the 27 will pull closer together as they see who benefits from any split in the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

German industry warns UK not to expect help in Brexit talks

It appears that the 'experts' on here who claimed that German car manufacturers, French cheese producers etc would put pressure on, and give the UK whatever it wanted were wrong, what a surprise.

At least we have their best mate Trump to help make America stronger.

 

[martcov]

German industry warns UK not to expect help in Brexit talks

It appears that the 'experts' on here who claimed that German car manufacturers, French cheese producers etc would put pressure on, and give the UK whatever it wanted were wrong, what a surprise.

At least we have their best mate Trump to help make America stronger.

The EU has completed two important trade deals since Brexit. Canada and Japan. The show goes on without the UK. The transition that keeps getting mentioned is absolutely necessary because we are never going to sort this mess out in less than 2 years. So, in other words, business as usual for the next 5 years or so. Two years to leave is the equivalent of a Tim Fisher 3 weeks to announce stadium plans.

After the 5 years, if we haven't got a sensible solution, it's back to a new referendum: "rejoin" or "leave without a deal". Very like our stadium situation....

 

[SIR ERNIE]

German industry warns UK not to expect help in Brexit talks

It appears that the 'experts' on here who claimed that German car manufacturers, French cheese producers etc would put pressure on, and give the UK whatever it wanted were wrong, what a surprise.

At least we have their best mate Trump to help make America stronger.

Source: The grubby little Guardian. The whingers reference manual. What a surprise.

You really will scrape the bottom of any filthy barrel to support your vehemently anti-British agenda won’t you.

 

[martcov]

Source: The grubby little Guardian. The whingers reference manual. What a surprise.

You really will scrape the bottom of any filthy barrel to support your vehemently anti-British agenda won’t you.

Actually it's in the Independent as well... maybe not in the Mail or Express.

You keep going on about people's supposed anti-British agenda. Are you seriously saying that last year 48% of voters and now more than half the British voting population ( according to some polls ) are anti-British because they don't like what Brexit is or the way it is being handled?

I would say a true patriot would be interested in what they think is best for the country. Seeing as we prospered in the EU and were one of it's most powerful members, remaining would seem to have been a sensible move as opposed to the problems we have now created for ourselves.

An anti-British stance would be to jettison Britain into the unknown. I think some people will be having to answer awkward questions if Brexit goes pear shaped.

 

[Sick Boy]

Source: The grubby little Guardian. The whingers reference manual. What a surprise.

You really will scrape the bottom of any filthy barrel to support your vehemently anti-British agenda won’t you.

Oh dear...again, goes to show that I really should start reading the Express and Mail.

I want what is best for the country, you clearly are willing to let Britain and its people suffer to satisay your warped anti-immigrant agenda.

 

[chiefdave]

Actually it's in the Independent as well... maybe not in the Mail or Express.

Germany's Brexit THREAT: Frankfurt WILL snatch UK's multi-billion euro clearing industry
German business bosses' Brexit warning for PM
Brexit: German business leaders warn May it will be 'extraordinarily difficult' to protect UK industry
German industry picks EU unity over post-Brexit trade

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Germany's Brexit THREAT: Frankfurt WILL snatch UK's multi-billion euro clearing industry
German business bosses' Brexit warning for PM
Brexit: German business leaders warn May it will be 'extraordinarily difficult' to protect UK industry
German industry picks EU unity over post-Brexit trade

Strange isn't it only one country keeps making statements, I wonder who the rulers of Europe are

 

[Sick Boy]

Strange isn't it only one country keeps making statements, I wonder who the rulers of Europe are

The Italians have made similar statements which contradict the ones that were being made on here about the EU having to bend over because of Britain's power.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Source: The grubby little Guardian. The whingers reference manual. What a surprise.

You really will scrape the bottom of any filthy barrel to support your vehemently anti-British agenda won’t you.

What a pathetic comment.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

German industry warns UK not to expect help in Brexit talks

It appears that the 'experts' on here who claimed that German car manufacturers, French cheese producers etc would put pressure on, and give the UK whatever it wanted were wrong, what a surprise.

At least we have their best mate Trump to help make America stronger.

I have only thought things through and am certainly no expert...but these Business Organisations can say what they like publicly. If it is out of step with the best thing for their nation's politicians it matters not one jot what they say.

On that car theme, a significant hike in prices for UK car sales from Germany will likely mean a decline in sales, subsequent loss of jobs & a threatened stability in their own nation.

I have gone on record several times saying that to the middle-income people of this country not much will change in the grand scheme of things. The higher earners & very poor may see some significant changes - but what changes remain to be seen

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Sick Boy]

I have only thought things through and am certainly no expert...but these Business Organisations can say what they like publicly. If it is out of step with the best thing for their nation's politicians it matters not one jot what they say.

On that car theme, a significant hike in prices for UK car sales from Germany will likely mean a decline in sales, subsequent loss of jobs & a threatened stability in their own nation.

I have gone on record several times saying that to the middle-income people of this country not much will change in the grand scheme of things. The higher earners & very poor may see some significant changes - but what changes remain to be seen

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

The German car industry has said all along that they will prioritise the integrity of the Single Market over appeasing the UK. Surprisingly enough, the world does revolve around us and believe it or not, but other countries also buy their cars.

IMO, middle earners will already be feeling the effects of the Brexit vote, I know I am. I dread to think how much worse it'll get once we leave.

 

[martcov]

I have only thought things through and am certainly no expert...but these Business Organisations can say what they like publicly. If it is out of step with the best thing for their nation's politicians it matters not one jot what they say.

On that car theme, a significant hike in prices for UK car sales from Germany will likely mean a decline in sales, subsequent loss of jobs & a threatened stability in their own nation.

I have gone on record several times saying that to the middle-income people of this country not much will change in the grand scheme of things. The higher earners & very poor may see some significant changes - but what changes remain to be seen

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

The German car industry has indicated that it will prioritise Poland as the country with growth potential in Europe. The EU have just signed new trade deals with Canada and Japan. Maybe there is more potential there. Pity the UK won't be involved if the present government continues down the hard Brexit road.

What about the parts industry in Britain? If Brexit goes bandy their vehicles will be stuck in Dover or Calais whilst waiting for burocratic customs clearance ( a massive amount of burocracy was done away with at borders by the single market - it is Britain that could be creating more burocracy ). People will look for suppliers within the EU for their "just in time" deliveries.

If anyone suffers, rich or poor, because of Brexit then it is all unnecessary and we know who to blame.

Anyone heard how Farage's knighthood is coming along? or the UK Independence Day for that matter?

I would like someone to be gathering information for a damages claim against the liars on the leave side.

 

[clint van damme]

Source: The grubby little Guardian. The whingers reference manual. What a surprise.

You really will scrape the bottom of any filthy barrel to support your vehemently anti-British agenda won’t you.

the source is the German BDI and BDA.
Observer only reporting what they said. Is reporting the truth anti british?
Is it patriotic of your beloved daily mail not to report such important statements?

 

[martcov]

Strange isn't it only one country keeps making statements, I wonder who the rulers of Europe are

Macron wants to lower taxes to encourage banks to come to France. The EZB is in Frankfurt, but Paris has more culture and places to go to. I think I would choose Paris for my staff. There is still the Eurostar connection so the UK is not far away - depending on border controls.

I don't think educated people believe that Germany is ruling Europe, but it is a major economic force and therefore German industry opinions do carry weight.

 

[martcov]

Germany's Brexit THREAT: Frankfurt WILL snatch UK's multi-billion euro clearing industry
German business bosses' Brexit warning for PM
Brexit: German business leaders warn May it will be 'extraordinarily difficult' to protect UK industry
German industry picks EU unity over post-Brexit trade

I was wrong about the Express. Their take was that it is the Germans threatening us. I cannot understand the shock and horror ( see Express readers comments ) about other countries - not just Germany - wanting to take over our profit making role in financial services. Look at how rich London is. A world city. Most countries would love a part of that. We, or rather the 52% of leave voters are putting this business up for grabs. London voted to keep the financial services by voting remain.

Now they have to watch as others try and outdo each other for this business. Northern Ireland has to watch as their border with the republic is discussed. The fruit farmers have to watch as their fruit pickers go. The car parts industry could be relocated because of possible future border red tape.

But, hey, there is growth! Race and religious hate crimes went up 23% in the U.K. In one year. A new record.

Look leavers... look what you have done to our country... and for what? You don't even know. Some want foreigners out and that's it, some want hard Brexit, some want soft Brexit, some want control of our borders - which we have and could strengthen....no one really knows what is going to happen, but it isn't looking good.

And then .....there are some that see people like me as unpatriotic because I express my disgust at what they have done to my country of birth... Really, you could not make this up.

 

[chiefdave]

I cannot understand the shock and horror ( see Express readers comments ) about other countries - not just Germany - wanting to take over our profit making role in financial services.

Its odd, to say the least, to vote leave on the basis we should put the UK first and then act surprised when other EU countries, or the EU as a whole, do the same.

 

[Sick Boy]

Its odd, to say the least, to vote leave on the basis we should put the UK first and then act surprised when other EU countries, or the EU as a whole, do the same.

It's hardly surprising though, is it? I'm surprised that no one has suggested we get the gun boats out yet and put it up Johnny Foreigner.

 

[chiefdave]

It's hardly surprising though, is it? I'm surprised that no one has suggested we get the gun boats out yet and put it up Johnny Foreigner.

With every week that passes I am less confident we'll actually leave. May won't make it through the two years of negotiations. A tory leadership battle followed by a general election gives them the perfect excuse to go to the EU and ask for everything to be put on hold.

 

[martcov]

With every week that passes I am less confident we'll actually leave. May won't make it through the two years of negotiations. A tory leadership battle followed by a general election gives them the perfect excuse to go to the EU and ask for everything to be put on hold.

Well, let's see what happens with the German elections. Noone from the EU will want to commit to anything until they see how Merkel gets on. If she gets a resounding win, then it's full steam ahead for renewing and reforming the EU. Everyone in the EU was on major wobble as Merkel lost her popularity in Germany because of the fear of immigration and the resulting problems, and Farage and co in Britain and the AfD in Germany were making the running.

Now the immigration flow in Germany has reduced and Britain has shown what happens when you take ill considered steps. A look at the Brexit chaos has brought the EU 27 together again and Merkel is no longer mad Merkel. Her popularity is back to where it was before " wir schaffen das ".

It's Trump, Farage, Johnson, Gove that are the bogey men and May the hopeless " Brexit means Brexit " loser. What better reasons can you have for rebuilding the EU and reforming it?

 

[Sick Boy]

With every week that passes I am less confident we'll actually leave. May won't make it through the two years of negotiations. A tory leadership battle followed by a general election gives them the perfect excuse to go to the EU and ask for everything to be put on hold.

I agree that it is unlikely to happen. I think the whole thing will be 'delayed', upon which point public opinion will have turned against the whole idea even more.

 

[Grendel]

The German car industry has said all along that they will prioritise the integrity of the Single Market over appeasing the UK. Surprisingly enough, the world does revolve around us and believe it or not, but other countries also buy their cars.

IMO, middle earners will already be feeling the effects of the Brexit vote, I know I am. I dread to think how much worse it'll get once we leave.

The German car industry will prioritise its shareholders and its profits.

 

[martcov]

The German car industry will prioritise its shareholders and its profits.

Exactly. They will build up alternative markets and supply chains to replace the U.K. If necessary...

 

[skybluetony176]

Germany's Brexit THREAT: Frankfurt WILL snatch UK's multi-billion euro clearing industry
German business bosses' Brexit warning for PM
Brexit: German business leaders warn May it will be 'extraordinarily difficult' to protect UK industry
German industry picks EU unity over post-Brexit trade

Not just Germany. Irelands looking to entice them as well, I was reading something on it last week. I'll have to see if I can dig a link out. The vultures are circling and we risk being left with the bones.

 

[Sick Boy]

The German car industry will prioritise its shareholders and its profits.

Indeed they will but your past predictions look well wide of the mark (again).

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The German car industry has indicated that it will prioritise Poland as the country with growth potential in Europe. The EU have just signed new trade deals with Canada and Japan. Maybe there is more potential there. Pity the UK won't be involved if the present government continues down the hard Brexit road.

What about the parts industry in Britain? If Brexit goes bandy their vehicles will be stuck in Dover or Calais whilst waiting for burocratic customs clearance ( a massive amount of burocracy was done away with at borders by the single market - it is Britain that could be creating more burocracy ). People will look for suppliers within the EU for their "just in time" deliveries.

If anyone suffers, rich or poor, because of Brexit then it is all unnecessary and we know who to blame.

Anyone heard how Farage's knighthood is coming along? or the UK Independence Day for that matter?

I would like someone to be gathering information for a damages claim against the liars on the leave side.

At the end of the day the whole thing is now a game of 'chicken' - there have been public statements by various people or groups that, though we never hear about it publicly, they are reigned-in - or sometimes it can be the Merkel team telling these people to issue statements...that's the nature of politics.

I mean think back...(dis)May has already back tracked on things & said one thing & done another...it happens the world over!

As for Poland...the growth opportunity is real for the German car market. But will it yield the same value they lose through a punitive deal with the UK where they probably make a seriously higher profit? Short term I suspect not.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The German car industry has said all along that they will prioritise the integrity of the Single Market over appeasing the UK. Surprisingly enough, the world does revolve around us and believe it or not, but other countries also buy their cars.

IMO, middle earners will already be feeling the effects of the Brexit vote, I know I am. I dread to think how much worse it'll get once we leave.

Yes we are according to some 'experts' £17/month worse off due to it. This will mean we have to tighten our belts, & change our personal values...maybe community spirit will gain at the expense of BT/SkyTV/Nintendo/Amazon etc who probably pay little tax here in the UK

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Kingokings204]

The German car industry has said all along that they will prioritise the integrity of the Single Market over appeasing the UK. Surprisingly enough, the world does revolve around us and believe it or not, but other countries also buy their cars.

IMO, middle earners will already be feeling the effects of the Brexit vote, I know I am. I dread to think how much worse it'll get once we leave.

If you believe that first paragraph, then you will believe anything. Sorry that's just laughable.

The German car industry will look after their profits and millions and millions of pounds. It's quite simple really.

 

[Kingokings204]

Exactly. They will build up alternative markets and supply chains to replace the U.K. If necessary...

They already have the most profitable market in the world in the U.K. Why throw that away? Well I've just answered it. They won't.

They will look after their sales and profits. Very very simple.

 

[Sick Boy]

If you believe that first paragraph, then you will believe anything. Sorry that's just laughable.

The German car industry will look after their profits and millions and millions of pounds. It's quite simple really.

The notion that the EU is about to give the UK whatever it wants (as was claimed on here and by a few MPs) due to the German car industry, is even more laughable.

 

[Sick Boy]

They already have the most profitable market in the world in the U.K. Why throw that away? Well I've just answered it. They won't.

They will look after their sales and profits. Very very simple.

You're going to be in for a shock. Believe it or not, but there are plenty of other markets for them to tap into.

 

[Kingokings204]

You're going to be in for a shock. Believe it or not, but there are plenty of other markets for them to tap into.

So much so that they haven't tapped into them yet? Oh right.

I repeat we are their biggest and most profitable market in the world. It's very simple.