The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (54 Viewers)

[Astute]

it's not about what we've paid in, it's about what we're entitled to now.
And do you know how much we've taken out? I know the current government has pledged to continue funding several projects currently funded by the EU so it would be interesting to see what the net gain will be once we've left.

I know that being in the EU has cost us half a trillion pounds so far if your link is correct.

We get back about half of what we put in. So it costs us a bloody fortune.

 

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[Astute]

read my post again, the negotiators have agreed that we are.

And we are the negotiators.

 

[clint van damme]

an older article but with a similar thrust to the one I read:

Europe wants Britain to pay billions into EU schemes up until 2023

"The European Commission believes that Britain should be allowed to off-set its share of the EU’s €154bn assets against its owings - comprised of annual budget commitments until 2019, pension obligations and other longer term liabilities.

“Both France and Germany objected to this, but the Commission said it was hard to argue that Britain must pay up for its outstanding commitments while refusing to recognise its share of the EU’s assets,” the source said."

 

[clint van damme]

And we are the negotiators.

I'm talking about the EU negotiators from the EU commission.

 

[Astute]

I'm talking about the EU negotiators from the EU commission.

Like who?

 

[clint van damme]

Like who?

how the fuck would I know their names?! Look at the other article I've linked.

 

[Astute]

an older article but with a similar thrust to the one I read:

Europe wants Britain to pay billions into EU schemes up until 2023

"The European Commission believes that Britain should be allowed to off-set its share of the EU’s €154bn assets against its owings - comprised of annual budget commitments until 2019, pension obligations and other longer term liabilities.

“Both France and Germany objected to this, but the Commission said it was hard to argue that Britain must pay up for its outstanding commitments while refusing to recognise its share of the EU’s assets,” the source said."

So who is the source?

Germany says no. France says no. Juncker says no. Which way truthfully do you think it will go?

 

[Astute]

how the fuck would I know their names?! Look at the other article I've linked.

Exactly. A source says the opposite of what those who makes the decisions. Nobody knows who it is. And we are supposed to take it as gospal.

 

[Astute]

I'm talking about the EU negotiators from the EU commission.

Who?

 

[clint van damme]

So who is the source?

Germany says no. France says no. Juncker says no. Which way truthfully do you think it will go?

Germany and France haven't said we aren't entitled they're just not happy about it and don't want to give anything up. Which way do I think it will go, with our negotiating team, fuck knows but David Davis has also said that the UKs trade deal with the EU has to be negotiated simultaneously so as I keep saying, there are many factors to be considered.

 

[Grendel]

Germany and France haven't said we aren't entitled they're just not happy about it and don't want to give anything up. Which way do I think it will go, with our negotiating team, fuck knows but David Davis has also said that the UKs trade deal with the EU has to be negotiated simultaneously so as I keep saying, there are many factors to be considered.

As indeed it should. The EU is a snarling, federalist movement that is purely designed so the economically strong can prosper at the expense of the weak.

As time moves on and we actually get to see more of junker and his type the reality will hit home we are lucky to be out.

 

[clint van damme]

As indeed it should. The EU is a snarling, federalist movement that is purely designed so the economically strong can prosper at the expense of the weak.

As time moves on and we actually get to see more of junker and his type the reality will hit home we are lucky to be out.

it is a federalist monster, but this comment:
"that is purely designed so the economically strong can prosper at the expense of the weak."
could be applied to the current tory government
.
my worry, as it always has been, is our negotiating team. I have no confidence in them.

 

[Astute]

Germany and France haven't said we aren't entitled they're just not happy about it and don't want to give anything up. Which way do I think it will go, with our negotiating team, fuck knows but David Davis has also said that the UKs trade deal with the EU has to be negotiated simultaneously so as I keep saying, there are many factors to be considered.

Which is what I have been saying. But Juncker wants it to look like punishment for leaving. He also needs to get every penny out of us for his future plans. Germany won't want to pay billions more each year. And they are the only ones that can afford it. They are doing very well out of the EU and Euro.

 

[clint van damme]

Which is what I have been saying. But Juncker wants it to look like punishment for leaving. He also needs to get every penny out of us for his future plans. Germany won't want to pay billions more each year. And they are the only ones that can afford it. They are doing very well out of the EU and Euro.

and now we're into the politics of it, from the EU point of view that makes sense but in reality they may not be able to be too punitive against the UK.
What future plans of his are you referring to?

 

[Astute]

it is a federalist monster, but this comment:
"that is purely designed so the economically strong can prosper at the expense of the weak."
could be applied to the current tory government
.
my worry, as it always has been, is our negotiating team. I have no confidence in them.

Neither do I. They are up against Juncker and Germany. And it looks as though Germany is willing to hurt German companies to try and hurt us. Either that or they are just trying to keep Juncker happy.

 

[Astute]

and now we're into the politics of it, from the EU point of view that makes sense but in reality they may not be able to be too punitive against the UK.
What future plans of his are you referring to?

Expanding the EU And making them take up the Euro. Each time it happens it is countries that would do better out of the Euro. So they need help. Then they take money out of the pot each year. And we won't be pumping billions in each year. So that will also have to be covered.

 

[clint van damme]

Expanding the EU And making them take up the Euro. Each time it happens it is countries that would do better out of the Euro. So they need help. Then they take money out of the pot each year. And we won't be pumping billions in each year. So that will also have to be covered.

hasnt he said he wont seek another term?

 

[Astute]

hasnt he said he wont seek another term?

He has recently said he will. Sounds like he has a plan and wants it to happen. Put the link up somewhere on this thread.

 

[chiefdave]

The position of the EU is easy to establish as they have made it publicly available:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sit...nt-essential-principles-position-paper_en.pdf
The UK hasn't published their version and May has refused a request from the EU to address the EU parliament and provide details.

 

[clint van damme]

tory in fighting kicking off again big style. Boris putting his personal ambition above the good of the country once more.
This mob aren't fit to see us through this process, it's frightening.

 

[Sick Boy]

tory in fighting kicking off again big style. Boris putting his personal ambition above the good of the country once more.
This mob aren't fit to see us through this process, it's frightening.

They're full of nasty self-serving scumbags and should be nowhere near these negotiations. Still, 'the experts' on here backed them to win by a landslide at the last election, so I'd pay little attention to their predictions about how this will pan out.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

They're full of nasty self-serving scumbags

…an interesting description of the Conservative leadership but eminently better suited to the unashamedly duplicitous Comrades Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry.

 

[Grendel]

…an interesting description of the Conservative leadership but eminently better suited to the unashamedly duplicitous Comrades Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry.

Yes correct. Talking of nasty self serving scumbags I see Will love my Self was on Question Time - always a reason to press the off button.

 

[clint van damme]

…an interesting description of the Conservative leadership but eminently better suited to the unashamedly duplicitous Comrades Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry.

I can't agree. Anyone setting himself up for a leadership challenge at such a crucial period of proceedings as Boris has done is about as self serving as it gets.

 

[Grendel]

I can't agree. Anyone setting himself up for a leadership challenge at such a crucial period of proceedings as Boris has done is about as self serving as it gets.

I think mr Corbyns U Turn on a lifetime of opposing the EU and the single market for opportinism is a lot worse.

 

[clint van damme]

I think mr Corbyns U Turn on a lifetime of opposing the EU and the single market for opportinism is a lot worse.

that's exactly what Boris did only the other way round. The difference is Boris is part of the negotiating team, he should be putting the good of the country before his personal ambition, but he doesn't put anything before his personal ambition.

I don't think anyone's convinced by Corbyns position but he's no where near the negotiating table and not trying to undermine the leader of his party days before she makes an important speech on Brexit, I don't know how you can defend Boris, he's dangerous no matter how much he tries to portray himself as a likeable buffoon.

 

[Grendel]

Who would have thought it - the most gushing and dribbling euriphile on the planet launches an attack on Mr Junker

Sadly the dimwit doesn't realise he is the norm not the exception on the euro gravy train

Of course Mr Euro only wants to hide him away as he might damage his undemocratic idea of having a second referendum. People may see Europe for what it is

More Mr Junker please

Lib Dem leader on Juncker: ‘Pompous, self-important and overpaid’

 

[clint van damme]

Who would have thought it - the most gushing and dribbling euriphile on the planet launches an attack on Mr Junker

Sadly the dimwit doesn't realise he is the norm not the exception on the euro gravy train

Of course Mr Euro only wants to hide him away as he might damage his undemocratic idea of having a second referendum. People may see Europe for what it is

More Mr Junker please

Lib Dem leader on Juncker: ‘Pompous, self-important and overpaid’

on the day the Telegraph gives boris an absolute pasting, unusual times we're living in.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

unusual times we're living in.

Certainly is, when allowing the people a vote is now undemocratic...

 

[Grendel]

on the day the Telegraph gives boris an absolute pasting, unusual times we're living in.

Which has nothing to do with what I said

Mr Euro also says anyone voting Brexit was confused and needs to have another chance to get it right now they know the facts. Clearly not the facts from the euro president of course - oh no.

 

[Grendel]

Certainly is, when allowing the people a vote is now undemocratic...

We had a vote. Actually we had two votes as in the general election a party stood for a second referendum - they didn't do that well

Just let Mr £300k a year Junker (plus expenses) keep talking - that's democracy isn't it?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

We had a vote. Actually we had two votes as in the general election a party stood for a second referendum - they didn't do that well

Just let Mr £300k a year Junker (plus expenses) keep talking - that's democracy isn't it?

So you'd be confident in another vote, as it'd give the same result.

Unless your idea of democracy is to exhume Campbell-Bannerman...

 

[clint van damme]

Which has nothing to do with what I said

Mr Euro also says anyone voting Brexit was confused and needs to have another chance to get it right now they know the facts. Clearly not the facts from the euro president of course - oh no.

you started your post who would have thought it and gave an example of something you didn't expect to see, I followed it up with an instance of something I didn't expect to see, i'd say that has got something to do with your post.

Expect to see Cable for PM with the Macron and Trudeau examples repeated ad nauseum over the coming months though, I heard two Lib dems trotting it out in the media yesterday.

 

[Grendel]

So you'd be confident in another vote, as it'd give the same result.

Unless your idea of democracy is to exhume Campbell-Bannerman...

So if the vote goes the other way by 52 48 it's one all - what then - do it again? Toss a coin euro were in the pound we are out?

I'm sorry that's democracy Zimbabwe style - abuse and brainwash the electorate until they get it right

I honestly genuinely thought you were better than that

 

[Sick Boy]

We had a vote. Actually we had two votes as in the general election a party stood for a second referendum - they didn't do that well

Just let Mr £300k a year Junker (plus expenses) keep talking - that's democracy isn't it?

What happened to your sneering predictions of a Tory landslide? May's/The Tories' lack of authority has made a final vote on the deal more than likely.

I'm just glad that the Tories will forever own Brexit.