italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Common sense would say that if your bottom of the league it reflects the position.
In the absence of facts I will take the statistics but feel free to defend the undefendable.
Common sense would say that if your bottom of the league it reflects the position.
In the absence of facts I will take the statistics but feel free to defend the undefendable.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Now I know you're dillusional using common sense in anything to do with our club.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
So he wasn't responding to a question ?
Nick
Administrator
I would think that might prove correct, as it was forecast for 2016-17, but crowds being what they are then the SCMP budget must be being squeezed
It also depends on the budget being looked at the SCMP or the company one for the year which dictates what cash is actually available to spend
we might not have the smallest budget but it would seem we have the worst return from budget in the division. Historically Scunthorpe has always been smaller and look what's happened to them
Do you mean as in worst return as in league position based on budget or the money given to the playing side "return"?
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
When was this Nick?
Nick
Administrator
What he would / should have said was "I leave the money down to Mark Venus, I just deal with the players on the training ground"
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
A free transfer may mean you can pay a higher wage because you don't have the initial outlay.
Nick
Administrator
The bloke is a 30 year old lower league player, is far from fancy but their whole game was built around his strengths and then Poleon when he came on.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
100% spot on. You come in as manager with optimism and positivity, go top of the league and six or nine months in, you realise you're working for a bunch of obnoxious losers who don't actually share your ambition. A bunch of losers who should never have been allowed anywhere near a football club.
Why bother.
Dropkick79
New Member
I do believe TM hands were tied in a lot more areas then we think, a good friends son plays for a local kids team (I know, I know....) that a member of ccfc support staff (daily contact with players and TM in a professional manner)plays for, said that last season certain loan players had a "must play" clause in their contracts if they were fit. So that effected team selection and that when Reda was injured toward the end of the season, he was actually fit to play but if the club kept him classed as unfit, the insurance would pay his wages and not the club.
Now this was second hand info but I wouldn't say it's too far out there not to have some truth!
Now this was second hand info but I wouldn't say it's too far out there not to have some truth!
Moff
Well-Known Member
Whether its completely true or not we will never know, but the fact that we can all believe what you wrote shows how bad the club has been run under SISU.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
That was a bloody mistake. Never had the budget, needed to settle for safe journeymen but was still aiming too high considering the realities of the budget.
The club is playing the stupid card time after time.
PS What are your thoughts on Juggy's overheard conversation now, is it ringing true?
skybluebeduff
Well-Known Member
What did he overhear? Also what is Juggys real name?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
January sales.
Nick
Administrator
I can't see why Mowbray would be chasing players like that if he was telling everybody how bad the budget was. He would have been after the Stokes / Jones type players from the lower leagues.
It doesn't make sense, it just makes him look silly.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Blame for what?
Club going to the wall with no strategy and no direction - sisus fault
Lack of investment - sisus fault
Clubs alienation from other local parties - sisus fault
Dwindling crowds and divided fan base - sisus fault
Lack of communication and unwillingness to engage with the support base - sisus fault
Playing our recent man of the match central midfielder on the right - TMs fault
Persevering with a veteran striker who's legs have gone and who missed a sitter - TMs fault
Constant chopping and changing of tactics and formation - TMs fault
Disastrous recruitment policy - TM, (and possibly MVs) fault.
GaryPendrysEyes
Well-Known Member
Nick will be on a Sisu apologist burn out today-- only he knows why.
But look, its clear TM had to rebuild most of the squad on the budget he was given. The effective investment was poor and the shit he was placed in was huge. That's down to the owners, as is our league position after 9 years.
But look, its clear TM had to rebuild most of the squad on the budget he was given. The effective investment was poor and the shit he was placed in was huge. That's down to the owners, as is our league position after 9 years.
Nick
Administrator
It is hardly a burnout is it? Mowbray has just said again what I am saying, even after he has gone.
Still, even after he has gone he is still going out of his way to make himself and Venus look inept when he doesn't need to then?
Shooting high is great, but you need a backup. Other teams who weren't shooting so high then probably got the best players in our range.
Fair play to him, he has been brutally honest and you can't do anything but respect him for that.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Point is Nick, why were we hanging everything on one good transfer window?
Surely this is the issue with Sisu's seeming strategy of short term deals and loans and buy a new team in every summer? Every manager, no matter how good has poor windows, maybe the targets were poor, maybe they were gazumped, whatever it happens. The point is your overall strategy shouldn't mean one bad summer means such a massive change in fortunes.
Put it another way, do you think Mowbray has got significantly worse as a manager in a year? Why would that be? Did Pressley get worse? Thorn? Or did we have a strategy that relied too much on them striking gold every time they went shopping?
Surely this is the issue with Sisu's seeming strategy of short term deals and loans and buy a new team in every summer? Every manager, no matter how good has poor windows, maybe the targets were poor, maybe they were gazumped, whatever it happens. The point is your overall strategy shouldn't mean one bad summer means such a massive change in fortunes.
Put it another way, do you think Mowbray has got significantly worse as a manager in a year? Why would that be? Did Pressley get worse? Thorn? Or did we have a strategy that relied too much on them striking gold every time they went shopping?
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to "make out" anything Nick. I gave it as a possible reason as to why he chased those players, IF his budget had changed.
Nick
Administrator
Doesn't the manager also decide have a say on the contracts? Like since Mowbray came in we have given out longer deals to players like Turnbull, Reid and Sordell rather than 6 months?
I'd say Mowbray failed to learn from last season with what we need in League 1. Mowbray said it was a 2 year plan, this window was his chance to build some more with players going which he did slightly.
He kept going on about physicality and failed to bring anybody in. This year he has no idea what system suits the players, both seasons people pointed out how he kept pissing around with the team.
In terms of Mowbray as a manager, we got found out last year and he didn't know how to react.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
And that's exactly why the mere mention of Richardson, Robinson and whoever went before SISU is an exercise in futility. The only thing it can possibly do is distract from SISU failing the club.
Nick
Administrator
I think its easy to say now what he should of done, i mean last year with Murphy, Kent and Armstrong coming in late and these working out helped ease last season or that could of been us being in the same situation as now. Sisu have lucked out more than once with the likes of Wilson, Maddison and Sambou helping them out to fund a budget while bringing in loans to support the manager.
I know TM has to shoulder the blame for results but he really has had a few rugs pulled from under him and sooner or later the luck runs out when playing a selling to loan game continues. So im sure he knew his budget, but was told very early on that loans again would have to play a key role again this season. Add that to the club lowering the max they would pay any player made it even harder for him. I mean you try to sign the player you want even if that player is interested he will stay local and take a drop in wages than uproot his family due to the max at the club.
I think his biggest mistake was Martin im not sure he was on more than the max but he could of added stability until the right player at the right time came along. TM will be angry at what has happened but as he has stated the club is in a bad position off the fied and without investment on it will continue to struggle.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I genuinely don't know mate. Football's a complex game an a million reasons can be behind everything. That's why us lot spend so much time arguing bollocks on here.
My point is that we keep doing this. We keep getting in managers who are promising on paper, who do relatively well, then usually after a major budget/player shock (Wilson, Maddison, etc.) it all goes down the shitter.
I'm not a manager, I don't know how much control he has, what discussions he has with the board, etc. etc. All I'm saying is that when the same things keep happening you look at the things that haven't changed, not the things that have. Is Coleman a shit manager? Is Pressley? OK Thorn is, he was kinda our fault as fans though. When do we look deeper than a few months back and ask why we aren't progressing as a club?
This time last season if I told you Mowbray was a shit manager you'd have laughed at me. What's changed?
Nick
Administrator
- Watching games week in week out where you can see other managers make changes that change the game and us failing to react.
- Constant changing of the team so nobody can get settled, if a player plays well they get dropped.
- Not knowing his best system for the players at his disposal
- As proven, aiming too high for players to bring in.
- Strange tactical substitutions and changes, he will move 3 or 4 players about for no reason when he can just make a single change.
- Persistently being stubborn, last season Tudgay couldn't get a lookin and now he doesn't want to drop him after signing 5 other strikers.
- He does things that don't make sense, he says we can't play 4-4-2 because we don't have players good enough. Then the next game we play 4-4-2 with the players he has just said aren't good enough for it.
- He says he learnt from last season what we need in League 1, which was physicality. He doesn't bring any physicality in at all.
- He says he doesn't want to play with wingers, so he signs Reid who is a winger and brings 2 wingers in on trial. He plays Reid as centre forward.
I don't think Sisu want to pay the wages, look back at how many "high" earners they've off loaded
You get what you pay for and Sisu have tried to do everything on the cheap incl buying the Ricoh
Their format has failed over the last 10 years, we've had some pretty good managers here incl 2 that are now international managers
Sisu won't invest and they've cocked up massively
I want them to leave and quickly and until they do the club will remain a basket case.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Were was that said? It is my view the budget is a lot smaller than being admitted too.
Nick
Administrator
Again, he is saying that they are doing well in the league above. It isn't about wanted to pay the wages it is about being able to as a football club. We aren't in the Championship.
I doubt we would have had too much of an issue if we were going for solid league 1 players would we?
Nick
Administrator
He said it on the radio, he has also said today that with hingsight they knew the budget and they were aiming too high.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Have you answered the question I asked or a different one?
