USSR invades Ukraine. (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
- Start date
Id hope that a majority of people accept it’s a stalemate. How you get from that to a settlement that works for Ukraine and without emboldening Putin is the challenge
He was a rich man before the war, so I'm not sure what relevance that has.
A few people in here falling for Kremlin propaganda unfortunately.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
The interests of Ukraine aren’t going to be a top priority for the west.
It’s Ukraines call though….unless the West pulls support
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Corruption in Ukraine is well documented. You’d have to be naive at best to think it’s not gone on during the war, both in terms of weapons coming in and financial support.
This is an interesting article - Zelensky's Cash Haul
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
It’s not their call because they’re entirely dependent on what the West decides.
If they wanted to settle now they would. The west can prolong things by continuing to provide financial and military support but it can’t stop them from going to the negotiating table. Ultimately if that’s what Ukraine people and government want that’s what will happen
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Financial support from the West isn’t going to last forever; there are already questions being asked. If Trump gets voted in, it’ll probably be gone by this time next year.
Once that happens, Ukraine will be in a far weaker position to negotiate.
I'm sure it is going on. But that article is as expected really, the US are doing everything they can to ensure the money is accounted for and the Republicans say it's being wasted and lost to corruption.
I agree. They’ve got to decide if/when they are in best position to negotiate
Oh look here's the chief chomper of Kremlin propaganda.
Finally more members are taking responsibility for their defence. not sure what the remaining 13 are thinking but surely a show of strength/investment in defence is the best form of deterrent
www.ft.com
Nato defence spending to hit record as alliance braces for potential Trump win
Eighteen of 31 countries are set to spend 2 per cent of GDP on defence
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well it’s Zelensky who decides - anyone who shows dissent is removed
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No one has ever believed Russian propaganda-
least of all me
Spy Poisoning
My conspiracy theory: It is the eve of an election in Russia. The great protector will push the „fact“ that everyone is against Russia and they need someone like him. He will win by even more whilst at the same time showing that „traitors“ are not safe anywhere and will die a horrible death...
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
duffer
Well-Known Member
Did you read that article? I'm just wondering because of course it's the far right in the US that are primarily spouting the "Ukraine's bent so we shouldn't support them."
Interesting that you seem to be aligned with them on this.
As before, unless you're saying that Russia are invading Ukraine in order to put in place a better, less-corrupt democracy, it is an utterly bat-shit point of view.
Either it's acceptable for an authoritarian dictator to overthrow a sovereign European democracy by force, or it isn't.
If it isn't, then the West needs to support Ukraine with whatever they need, to the best of our ability; anything else is rank hypocrisy.
duffer
Well-Known Member
If he's just a grifter, why did he risk his, and his families lives to stay in Kyiv when the West offered him a way out?
Easy to forget, but in the first few hours and days of the Russian invasion, it looked very likely that Kyiv would fall and Zelenskyy would be captured and/or killed.
Where's your evidence that he's doing this for his own benefit, rather than for his country? It's a hell of a thing to claim without proof.
yeah, ultimately it is currently, however, if there was a groundswell of public support to go a certain route he wouldn’t have much choice.
Quite. He's shown some pretty extraordinary levels of courage and leadership through the war. Not least, as you say, when assassination squads were sent to kill him and his family and he refused to leave.
And as always it's absurd to point out all these apparent flaws of Zelensky while not saying a single word about Putin.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
As I said, it's naive at best not to believe that there are huge issues with corruption there - it's hardly aligning myself with the far-right:
This is only from a few weeks ago - Ukraine says corrupt officials stole $40 million meant to buy arms for the war with Russia
Also, the West has hardly shown itself to be in a position to take the moral high ground on anything when it comes to mass murder.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
indeed
Grendel
Well-Known Member
People love an opinion poll
visitukraine.today
Is Zelenskyy responsible for corruption in Ukraine?
According to a recent poll, the vast majority of Ukrainians hold the president responsible for corruption in the government and military administrations. Find out how the opinion of Ukrainian citizens is divided and what is known about the draft law on e-declaration
visitukraine.today
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Its ok his answer is to surrender to US influence - a warmongering, political and morally bankrupt country with a foreign policy aimed purely at self interest.
Said with your usual incredible levels of self awareness.
You keep saying this like everyone in here is denying there is corruption in Ukraine when literally no one is.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Do you want to discuss boring politics?
The Labour offer is materially the same as if not the current but certainly the 2010 Tory offer (they both stated that there would be no budget deficit and a reduction in overall 'debt'). It's austerity, "we can't do things because of the previous government" and some incredibly vague statements...
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The point is, to what end? What is the envisaged outcome?
Do you want to discuss boring politics?
The Labour offer is materially the same as if not the current but certainly the 2010 Tory offer (they both stated that there would be no budget deficit and a reduction in overall 'debt'). It's austerity, "we can't do things because of the previous government" and some incredibly vague statements...
Just fuck off, there's posts from you 2 years ago talking about my 'daddy'.
It's really, really fucking weird behaviour.
