What Do We Need To Change? (1 Viewer)

[BlueSkiesForever]

Just wondering what your thoughts are on what we do from here? How do you think we progress? What should or can we change?

I know many of you are sick to death of me calling for us to change formation (either box or 4ATB) but I’m wondering what people’s perspective is on that? And not just that but what else can we do to help us progress? Are we playing the right players? Should we move them into different positions? At this stage I’m not sure what the answer is, the game last night was so bad I’m genuinely concerned as to how we fix it.

 

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[skybluecam]

After last night I wouldn’t be opposed to going back to the box, tell them to sit in and be hard to beat and try to hit teams on the break again. O’Hare and Sakamoto were probably the only players that looked decent yesterday.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We need to be more willing to take a chance on a throughball or cross instead of always going back and forth looking for the perfect opportunity. We especially need to get the WB's as a more attacking force.

When O'hare is fully fit I'd quite happily go back to the box. Probably Simms up top on his own though at the moment none of them seem particularly worthy of it.

 

[Saddlebrains]

I think we need to go fully basic. As in basic basic.

4 4 1 1

Wilson
Latibeaudiere Thomas Kitching Bidwell
MVE Sheaf Allen Tats
Callum
Simms (Even though he's wank)

Yes its a major sea change, but there's enough on the bench to change if we need too, You'd assume MVE and DaSilva would attack more with Cover behind them, we shouldn't let the opposition in as much at the back and if Simms cant score with Tats, MVE and Callum feeding him then he may aswell take up Snooker

Fadz is too exposed in a 4, hence he drops out, I feel Thomas will be decent if all he has to do is head it and kick it away, and you have to play a 4million CB.

 

[ProfessorbyGrace]

Another formation thread…joyous.

 

[djr8369]

We’re a bit too cautious, building slowly. Need a bit more spark and creativity in Saka or COH. Unleash the wing backs a bit. Rotate Godden to give Simms and Wright more time both on the pitch and to see how they work together. Settle on a back 3.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

After last night I wouldn’t be opposed to going back to the box, tell them to sit in and be hard to beat and try to hit teams on the break again. O’Hare and Sakamoto were probably the only players that looked decent yesterday.

Yeah that’s my thinking as well, some people don’t like it but I’m utterly convinced this shitty formation doesn’t work. Relying on Ayari, Simms and Godden to do all of the work. The 5ATB situation seems to create this horseshoe shape that pens the opposition in but leaves the only options available ones that involve backwards or sidewards passes. That’s great if we could then create chances but our players seem incapable of making runs in between defenders, it’s almost like it’s too congested or something, it just doesn’t feel natural to me.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Another formation thread…joyous.

Not necessarily, I was just wondering how we can fix the mess we’re currently in. I think we need a formation change personally but I’m sure that’s not the only option available, just wondered if people had any other ideas?

 

[skybluecam]

Yeah that’s my thinking as well, some people don’t like it but I’m utterly convinced this shitty formation doesn’t work. Relying on Ayari, Simms and Godden to do all of the work. The 5ATB situation seems to create this horseshoe shape that pens the opposition in but leaves the only options available ones that involve backwards or sidewards passes. That’s great if we could then create chances but our players seem incapable of making runs in between defenders, it’s almost like it’s too congested or something, it just doesn’t feel natural to me.

I don’t think 5212 doesn’t work full stop but it’s certainly not working now.

My thinking is more that we seem incapable of playing good football and dominating, so let’s go back to basics, be hard to beat and try to grind out some results.

 

[shmmeee]

The forwards aren’t working. Simms and Godden want to be in the same place and Godden is constantly whining on the pitch which isn’t great for anyone. Godden is also tHoe worlds slowed forward which kills a lot of our attacks. Wright wants to play in the channels and wide, Simms wants to be in the box. Ayari is far too raw for this league. We need Allen/O’Hare/Palmer back in the number 10 role.

The midfield isn’t working, Sheaf and Eccles are too similar and both lack the drive and vision to move us forwards consistently hence the side to side. They’re both good “nick the ball” type DMs but not rock solid and can get overrun. It means a massive gap to what is in reality a front three in our system. It also slows our play. This is the real issue. Up front and in defence you can see we might have the right notes but not in the right order. In midfield we’re missing an entire brass section.

Defence looks confused as Robins hinted at for the first last night. But then it changes literally every week. We’ve gone from Rose Hyam Fadz for years at a stretch, then to McNally and Doyle last season who were quality. Again there’s elements there, Binks, Lats, Thomas have shown bits an pieces but it needs knitting into a defensive unit. Normally I’d say that’s Fadz role, but he’s increasingly looking like this is his final season at this level. We need to pick a back three and give them time to form a unit.

Other than that, we’re OK

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

I think we need to go fully basic. As in basic basic.

4 4 1 1

Wilson
Latibeaudiere Thomas Kitching Bidwell
MVE Sheaf Allen Tats
Callum
Simms (Even though he's wank)

Yes its a major sea change, but there's enough on the bench to change if we need too, You'd assume MVE and DaSilva would attack more with Cover behind them, we shouldn't let the opposition in as much at the back and if Simms cant score with Tats, MVE and Callum feeding him then he may aswell take up Snooker

Fadz is too exposed in a 4, hence he drops out, I feel Thomas will be decent if all he has to do is head it and kick it away, and you have to play a 4million CB.

Yeah completely agree Saddle, I think a 4-4-1-1 or 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 is what’s needed now. At the very minimum the box formation.
We’ve tried the current formation long enough now and it’s got us nowhere. I’m sure O’Hare will make a difference but we’re clearly not playing to our full potential. I don’t think the strikers suit the current system either, I’m clearly no expert but just from a fan’s point of view it feels like they need to be running into space chasing a through ball rather than having to conjure up something with their backs to goal all the time.
Haji in particular, I’m convinced he needs time and space and a ball to chase to be any good, think back to that Leicester game, he looked so much better when he was hunting down the ball rather than having to come up with something standing static in amongst defenders.

 

[shmmeee]

I think we need to go fully basic. As in basic basic.

4 4 1 1

Wilson
Latibeaudiere Thomas Kitching Bidwell
MVE Sheaf Allen Tats
Callum
Simms (Even though he's wank)

Yes its a major sea change, but there's enough on the bench to change if we need too, You'd assume MVE and DaSilva would attack more with Cover behind them, we shouldn't let the opposition in as much at the back and if Simms cant score with Tats, MVE and Callum feeding him then he may aswell take up Snooker

Fadz is too exposed in a 4, hence he drops out, I feel Thomas will be decent if all he has to do is head it and kick it away, and you have to play a 4million CB.

That midfield gets eaten alive

 

[SBT]

Apparently just having someone other than Eccles take corners will mean we score three or four extra goals per game, pretty simple really

 

[skybluecam]

I think we need to go fully basic. As in basic basic.

4 4 1 1

Wilson
Latibeaudiere Thomas Kitching Bidwell
MVE Sheaf Allen Tats
Callum
Simms (Even though he's wank)

That’s too much change. Plus can’t see Callum starting.

We could be 3 down vs WBA by the time everyone works out what their new position is.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

We need to score more goals and concede less

 

[Grendel]

Apparently just having someone other than Eccles take corners will mean we score three or four extra goals per game, pretty simple really

I don’t think anyone has said that but hey ho

 

[shmmeee]

We need to score more goals and concede less

Id take one or the other right now.

 

[ProfessorbyGrace]

Not necessarily, I was just wondering how we can fix the mess we’re currently in. I think we need a formation change personally but I’m sure that’s not the only option available, just wondered if people had any other ideas?

I was being facetious, I apologise - I just think we can hammer out all of these plausible possibilities, and then, consequently, be filled with a false hope that the system will be changed, because we can see it needs to.

MR is, as we know, notoriously stubborn. I would say, perhaps the last two results have emphasised how ineffective the system is, and a change could possibly coming.

 

[Hertsccfc]

Formation is largely irrelevant. We just need most of the players to play better.

Having said that I see little point in playing two forwards at the moment as none of the three we have are achieving anything, so I would be inclined to go to four in midfield. Simms and Wright have played in every game and it is not doing their confidence any good. Simms in particular has played a lot of football and I don't think it is helping him. Wright is devoid of confidence and if the crowd get in his back I can see it getting worse.

We need to sign an experienced target man in January who can hold the ball up and provide some sort focus for the team. Sheaf looks really frustrated by the lack of movement ahead of him. This will give us some time to develop Simms and Wright into the players we thought they were when we bought them.

 

[Boicey]

Robins will go with favourites Godden, Palmer and Allen as soon as he can. Allen will bring something to the midfield and hopefully a few much needed goals.
Palmer will basically see us playing 3 upfront and we know already he brings nothing.
Wright, Simms are bad mistakes we’ll have to live with for a few years.
Its all on COH and hopefully a decent AM brought in in January. Maybe they can give the dynamic duo a few tap ins.

 

[Boicey]

Formation is largely irrelevant. We just need most of the players to play better.

Having said that I see little point in playing two forwards at the moment as non of the three we gave are achieving anything, so I would be inclined to go to four in midfield. Simms and Wright have played in every game and it is not doing their confidence any good. Simms in particular has played a lot of football and I don't think it is helping him. Wright us devoid if confidence and if the crowd get in his back I can see it getting worse.

We need to sign an experienced target man in January who can hold the ball up and provide some sort focus for the team. Sheaf looks really frustrated by the lack of movement ahead of him. This will give us some time to develop Simms and Wright into the players we thought they were when we bought them.

‘Sign an experienced target man in January’ would be an admission of total failure. It ain’t gonna happen.

 

[Hertsccfc]

‘Sign an experienced target man in January’ would be an admission of total failure. It ain’t gonna happen.

Better to admit you have made a mistake and rectify it than plough on regardless. I would be surprised if we don’t sign another forward in January quite probably on loan. If we don't I think we will really struggle.

I am sure Simms and Wright are better than they have shown but they need some experience around them to give them space to develop. Matty James brought this in our first year in the Championship. We knew Hamer and Sheaf were good players but they needed a bit of experience alongside them on a short term basis. Sadly Godden isn't doing this, it looked like he would in the first few matches but he has fallen back to their level now, and he was never very good at hold up play anyway.

 

[speedie87]

1 up front and bidwell at lwb to help defend set pieces

 

[Cov kid 55]

I think it’s back to basics for a start, we need a few clean sheets. So Bidwell in for Desilva (who passed sloppily last night, and isn’t evidencing consistent end product), decide who your best defence is, and play it into form. My view is Bidwell, Binks, Kitching, Latibeaudiere, MVE. We’ll hopefully get some 0-0’s and scrape the odd 1-0. The midfield just about picks itself based on fitness, O’Hare showed in his short cameo that he offers something nobody else does (drive, creativity, effort(?), passion). Up front, God knows, but not Godden, start the two of them alternatively until one of them grabs the jersey, Simms looks most likely currently. One thing from last night, when the Rotherham defender wrestled Wright off the pitch and the ref gave a foul to them, Wright just seemed to accept it, you’d have thought he would have been in the ref’s face protesting it, but just trotted off. It’s a serious situation we find ourselves in, at the moment we’ll be hoping that we scrape a few more points than the bottom 3.…. Hope I’m wrong on that last point. PUSB.

 

[fatso]

Playing 2 up front doesn't work when both are shite.
For me it's the forward line that is failing rather than the midfield (although Ayari looked out of his depth last night)

I'd go with 1 striker, drop Ayari to the bench and play 2 from O'hare, Allen, Sakamoto and Palmer.

 

[SBAndy]

Play the box midfield. Work the ball into the lone striker’s feet far earlier in the move and allow him to pop off to one of the AMs. Wing backs higher up and attacking the space behind opposition full backs. We need to be more direct. The amount of times a ball was on to Godden or Simms last night but instead we build slowly was agonising.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Ayari is not at the level, looks of the pace and wants to much time on the ball to be effective. We looked better at the start of the season before the defensive rotation started. If we get Alan back to give us legs in the middle and O'hare for the creativity and settle on a back 3 we will be alright. Were not supplying the front two enough who ever they are with clear cut opportunity's as in one on ones where they have the chance to beat a man. Sheaf as the defensive middle fielder will be fine but at the minute the press we are trying lacks pace so its easy to play through. PUSB

 

[Fergusons_Beard]

Personal needs a drastic rethink. We’re practically rolling over and getting our tummy’s tickled. Watching lesser ability teams win games with more commitment and passion.

We’re absolutely carrying Fadz.

Always looking to protect his vulnerability on the counter and thus nullifying any pressing forward we do.

From Robins last 3 interviews he’s saying that players aren’t following instructions.

Hoofing out when pressed. (All of defenders guilty of this!).

Also our play is ponderous and that starts with the keeper-who may have been brilliant at Saving shit but being a championship goalie is more than that. Wilson’s distribution and vision is terrible. Slowing down the play at most opportunities.

Swap him out and see what happens. (Not a popular opinion I know!)

I’d keep the back three. Without Fadz. Kitchen, Bobby and Binks.

Bidwell and MVE to give Dasilva a rest.

With Lats playing in the Def mid position to free up Sheaf in a creative midfield role. Eccles stays because there ain’t anyone else!

Can’t bring O’Hare in too quickly so Tats starts.

Also another unpopular opinion but I’d stick with the two new strikers and dump Godden.

Pace wins for me and so does unpredictability.

Godden way too one dimensional and one paced.

You’d think as a Striker Robins would be working on Sims and Hadji (or Godden) to work together better.

Seen drills where back 3 are worked on and this needs to be done with front two.

Always seem to be miles apart and not expecting a knock down or pass. Never in the front foot or just waiting for a mistake from a defender.

Vic made quite a few goals by not letting up on chasing down a defender and not making it easy for them.

Seen a lot of endeavour from our strikers but too much headless chicken and not a lot of big cock.


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[junglej13]

Formation is largely irrelevant. We just need most of the players to play better.

Having said that I see little point in playing two forwards at the moment as none of the three we have are achieving anything, so I would be inclined to go to four in midfield. Simms and Wright have played in every game and it is not doing their confidence any good. Simms in particular has played a lot of football and I don't think it is helping him. Wright is devoid of confidence and if the crowd get in his back I can see it getting worse.

In my opinion the current formation only really worked because of Vik and Hamer. We basically play with 7 defensive players now. In an old 4-4-2 you'd have pretty much had 5 attacking players in a side. I don't see the need to play two defensive midfielders every game... And an extra centre back. We have a lot of possession but in meaningless areas of the pitch.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

I was being facetious, I apologise - I just think we can hammer out all of these plausible possibilities, and then, consequently, be filled with a false hope that the system will be changed, because we can see it needs to.

MR is, as we know, notoriously stubborn. I would say, perhaps the last two results have emphasised how ineffective the system is, and a change could possibly coming.

I really hope a change is coming like you say, I just can’t see how we’re going to be creating multiple chances per game when we’re playing the way we currently do. Clearly players have a lot to do with it as well, we’re way too stationary in the box, hardly ever making runs, so it’s a definitely a combination of things, I’m not denying that, I just think we should start by trying out the box. Put Simms up top and see what the likes of O’Hare and Sakamoto can create for him. We’ve got to try something as it’s just not working atm.

 

[Robinshio]

Kitching - how shit must he be ?

 

[AiS86]

Box midfield is the easiest and most likely solution. There's just a big gaping hold between midfield and attack. Need O'Hare back in sharpish as he's the only one to drop into that space and then drive forward with it. Him having another AM to link up with, and the fact that he can slip more balls through to the forwards, should also see an improvement in them as well. Wright was trying runs in behind, but no one spotted them/had the ability to make the pass. O'Hare will make us more direct, and quicker to transition. Also, did I mention O'Hare?

 

[skyblueeyesrevisited]

We need to move the ball a lot quicker. The snail pace passing from the back to midfield is killing us. Strikers make early runs but the ball goes backwards or sideways. Too few attempts from the over cautious midfield to play someone in. Someone said earlier that Eccles played one great pass to Simms. But where did the other 99 go?

 

[stevefloyd]

I know Goddens our top scorer but I bet the opposition are rubbing their hands with glee when they see his name on the team sheet, their manager will say to their defence push up because if Godden does manage to get it past anyone you will easily catch him up

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Box midfield is the easiest and most likely solution. There's just a big gaping hold between midfield and attack. Need O'Hare back in sharpish as he's the only one to drop into that space and then drive forward with it. Him having another AM to link up with, and the fact that he can slip more balls through to the forwards, should also see an improvement in them as well. Wright was trying runs in behind, but no one spotted them/had the ability to make the pass. O'Hare will make us more direct, and quicker to transition. Also, did I mention O'Hare?

Yeah definitely agree, there’s too much reliance on WBs atm, I realise that’s what is needed with 5ATB but they’re not providing anything other than the odd cross which we never seem to put away. Look at how Chelsea used to play with WBs, Reece James and Chilwell bombing forward, running past the defence then whipping it across the face of goal. We do none of that, only a few of the balls we put into the box are ever dangerous.

For a team that plays wide it never feels like there’s that much space or we’re ever dragging defenders out of position. I can’t put my finger on what it is but something is fundamentally wrong with the way we attack.