Which CCFC do you support? (1 Viewer)

[Sky Blues]

I'm going to try a little blue skies thinking about the Sky Blues. I'd be interested in your constructive thoughts:

With a few honourable exceptions (like WFC), all of us on here support CCFC. But to my mind it appears there are now two companies vying for the title Coventry City Football Club. One, Coventry City Football Club Ltd, is currently in administration. The other, Coventry City Football Club (Holdings) Ltd is under the control of SISU. They may yet be found to be inextricably linked, in which case I would imagine Holdings would join Ltd in administration at some point. Unless that happens (or Sisu buy Ltd out of administration, or someone else purchases Ltd and Holdings and brings them back together), we are left with two potential CCFCs.

We don't know for sure which one owns the players or their registrations, nor which one will be given the Football League Golden Share when it is returned, but if I recall correctly the last set of published accounts suggested the Golden Share resided in Ltd and the players, or a good number of them at least, were being paid by Ltd. Therefore, can we, as fans, simply take that as the evidence we need to say 'our' club, Coventry City, was represented as a legal entity by Coventry City Football Club Ltd and therefore we support Coventry City Football Club Ltd?

If we support CCFC Ltd, no one need feel bad at the prospect of giving not one penny more to Holdings as that is not 'our' club. If CCFC Ltd is liquidated and/or not handed the Golden Share back again, we could try to restart Coventry City Football Club and work our way back. If Holdings is given the share and it moves out of Coventry we could feel angry that what once belonged to 'our' club has been taken from us, but as it would not be 'our' club we would feel no compulsion to follow it to Walsall or wherever it plays its 'home' games.

We, the fans, are Coventry City and we have the power to decide what we support. If we decide collectively that Coventry City Football Club Ltd is Coventry City Football Club and act on that basis, then surely Coventry City Football Club it will be, no matter what anyone else may say? Why should we leave it up to a judge, an administrator, the Football League or anyone else to decide what it is we are supposed to be supporting?

 

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[Skybluerevolution (Pt2)]

where would the club history be held? fa cup win ect...

 

[Sky Blues]

where would the club history be held? fa cup win ect...

I don't know where it resides at present, but I imagine both Holdings and Ltd would lay claim to it if they went their separate ways. However, didn't MK Dons eventually recognise they were not the true heirs to the '88 cup win? I think most people would recognise the club of the fans (AFC Wimbledon) should be considered as the rightful holders of that history.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/fa_cup/7704913.stm

 

[Skybluerevolution (Pt2)]

interesting...its important we retain our history...TBH we don't have a lot, it would be interesting to find out which company holds it.

 

[stupot07]

I honestly can't see any other scenario than the football league granting the golden share to holdings - it has the players contracts, it will have footballing debt (e.g. Bartons and codys transfer fee installments), and the academy, etc.

It depends whether ccfc ceases to be in existence of whether it moves permanently and renames/rebrands. Sisu won't be here forever

 

[Sky Blues]

I honestly can't see any other scenario than the football league granting the golden share to holdings - it has the players contracts, it will have footballing debt (e.g. Bartons and codys transfer fee installments), and the academy, etc.

Holdings may have those things, but how far would it get without fans? If the fans only pump their money into CCFC Ltd, Holdings will not have those things for long unless Sisu truly are prepared to finance (rather than add to Holdings' debt) the running costs forever and a day. It would be sad to lose the existing academy though...

 

[stupot07]

Holdings may have those things, but how far would it get without fans? If the fans only pump their money into CCFC Ltd, Holdings will not have those things for long unless Sisu truly are prepared to finance (rather than add to Holdings' debt) the running costs forever and a day. It would be sad to lose the existing academy though...

If you want an owner to finance running costs through gifting money rather than loaning money, I think you'll be in for a long wait.

Look at Leicesters owners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-17236355

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....tory-18314005-detail/story.html#axzz2TuWPcj5W

Even if PH4 takes over, the money he puts in will be through loans.

 

[Sky Blues]

If you want an owner to finance running costs through gifting money rather than loaning money, I think you'll be in for a long wait.

Look at Leicesters owners.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-17236355

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....tory-18314005-detail/story.html#axzz2TuWPcj5W

Even if PH4 takes over, the money he puts in will be through loans.

The issue I have tried to raise in this thread is not so much the ethics of how you finance a club but the possibility of framing for ourselves the terms of what constitutes our club. A club surely has little chance of garnering financial support (be it via debt or any other means) if it has no fans? If Holdings FC had no fans it surely wouldn't last long unless someone is willing to bankroll it regardless?

 

[Ripbuster]

Coventry City Football Club (holdings) Limited is an Other business incorporated in England & Wales on 24th July 1907. Their business activity is recorded as Activities Of Sport Clubs. Coventry City Football Club (holdings) Limited is run by 2 current members. and 1 company secretary. At least 20 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is also part of a group.

The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/05/2011 reported 'cash at bank' of £955,093, 'liabilities' worth £49,947,022, 'net worth' of £-47,234,191 and 'assets' worth £1,783,187. Coventry City Football Club (holdings) Limited's risk score was amended on 02/03/2013

Previous name - COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (THE)...Date changed 16/02/1996

Coventry City Football Club Limited is a Pending business incorporated in England & Wales on 16th May 1995. Their business activity is recorded as Operation Of Sports Facilities. Coventry City Football Club Limited is run by 1 current members. and 1 company secretary. 1 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is also part of a group.

The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/05/2011 reported 'cash at bank' of £103,414, 'liabilities' worth £57,227,071, 'net worth' of £-56,809,315 and 'assets' worth £417,756. Coventry City Football Club Limited's risk score was amended on 05/04/2013.

Previous names - CCFC LIMITED...Date changed 16/02/1996

2 Companies,loads of liabilities with a net worth of minus £££'s......I support "The Sky Blues".....Which is Which?

 

[Sky Blues]

Coventry City Football Club (holdings) Limited is an Other business incorporated in England & Wales on 24th July 1907. Their business activity is recorded as Activities Of Sport Clubs. Coventry City Football Club (holdings) Limited is run by 2 current members. and 1 company secretary. At least 20 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is also part of a group.

The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/05/2011 reported 'cash at bank' of £955,093, 'liabilities' worth £49,947,022, 'net worth' of £-47,234,191 and 'assets' worth £1,783,187. Coventry City Football Club (holdings) Limited's risk score was amended on 02/03/2013

Previous name - COVENTRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (THE)...Date changed 16/02/1996

Coventry City Football Club Limited is a Pending business incorporated in England & Wales on 16th May 1995. Their business activity is recorded as Operation Of Sports Facilities. Coventry City Football Club Limited is run by 1 current members. and 1 company secretary. 1 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is also part of a group.

The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/05/2011 reported 'cash at bank' of £103,414, 'liabilities' worth £57,227,071, 'net worth' of £-56,809,315 and 'assets' worth £417,756. Coventry City Football Club Limited's risk score was amended on 05/04/2013.

Previous names - CCFC LIMITED...Date changed 16/02/1996

2 Companies,loads of liabilities with a net worth of minus £££'s......I support "The Sky Blues".....Which is Which?

It ain't pretty, that's for sure. You ask: Which is which? I'm asking: Can we just pick one? If we pick Holdings we get the company dating back to 1907 and Sisu. Pick Ltd and we get a company which had the last recorded right to play in the league and is in administration. Splitting them has opened a can of worms. Can we decide for ourselves which CCFC will take us forward or do we leave it to the authorities to do it for us?

 

[deanocity3]

where would the club history be held? fa cup win ect...

in my loft with the golden share.
oh shit..weren't supposed to tell you yet,:facepalm:

 

[WFC]

History is not an asset that can be bought or sold. It doesn't sit on the balance books of one company or another. It is carried in the hearts, minds and memories of every CCFC supporter. Accrington Stanley went out of existence, the Accrington Stanley that plays in the league now is a completely different legal entity, do you think their supporters do not think of them as Accrington Stanley and talk of their long history, of their past glories and battles and with a sense of pride about how they've battled against everything to live again?

Your history belongs to you, yes in terms of the two companies here you can choose who represents CCFC and who you support. The FL and the fans will decide who are CCFC while courts decide who owns assets. Fans have a lot more power than they think, they just don't know it or often lack the motivation, desire, belief or organisation to use it.