Ethics Commitee Meeting Tomorrow (15 Viewers)

[Nick]

Weber Shandwick emails now being read out. This is advice being offered to parties.Talk of a “media war” from Weber Shandwick employee. No responses from council ACL included in these extracts.
Sisu lawyer Ms Morris: “It’s quite surprising talking about going on the attack with Sisu when they were still in negotiations.”
Sisu lawyer reads from comments of Alan Edward Higgs Charity trustee who said Weber Shandwick supplied “papers, all sorts of things”.
She adds, “no doubt the council had access to all of these.”
Coun Lucas raises her eyebrows at this remark.

There is one from a council employee that says it?

Page 40 here - http://democraticservices.coventry.gov.uk/documents/s26521/Appendix 5b Documents.pdf

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Point 13...it says that AL was Chair of the ACL Shareholder Panel which she took up before she became Leader of the Council. Is there a conflict of interests here? If she was chair of that panel, is she likely to have been a shareholder in ACL?

After the sale of the Ricoh to Wasps, did the shareholders see any payments from Wasps in relation to the purchase?

For the benefit of legal eagles reading this forum, I'm not suggesting bungs or the sort but....just asking the questions to clarify my understanding.

She'd have been there as a rep of CCC - the shareholder in question.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

She'd have been there as a rep of CCC - the shareholder in question.

Thanks, but is there still a chance that an individual such as herself might have had shares in ACL?

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Les Reid 1 minute ago NEW: email by coventrycc chief/Ricoh director Reeves to Weber Shandwick Jan '13. "Had constructive discusn with Cov Tel editor so all good"

 

[torchomatic]

That doesn't sound too good, does it?

Les Reid 1 minute ago NEW: email by coventrycc chief/Ricoh director Reeves to Weber Shandwick Jan '13. "Had constructive discusn with Cov Tel editor so all good"

 

[Nick]

That doesn't sound too good, does it?

Maybe a coincidence that said editor has since left?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Now going through further emails from Weber Shandwick. Discussions of a meeting over Ricoh negotiations with the Coventry Telegraph acting as some sort of neutral party is being read out by Sisu’s lawyer.

Telegraph a neutral party! WTF.

 

[Nick]

I'm still confused about the bit where they said it was just Weber Shancwick talking about the PR war and not the council or ACL. There is an email from somebody at the council about it.

I am no lawyer or detective, but surely they can just call bullshit and show the one from the council lady about the pr war?

 

[Nick]

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Whether they say it or not, Its obvious that the council were 'balls deep' with the telegraph and Webber Shandwick.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

...........

 

[Skyblueweeman]

So I blatantly haven't got Hill83's gif skills.

Anyway, interesting to hear Mr Gilberts views on things. To be fair, I've always appreciated his efforts on coming on here and putting across as much as he can, despite thinking that the CT has been far too pro-Wasps and happy to pee on our parade. I do get that isn't necessarily Simons agenda though.

I'd assume that these discussions where they acted as a neutral party were above his head?

 

[Nick]

So I blatantly haven't got Hill83's gif skills.

Anyway, interesting to hear Mr Gilberts views on things. To be fair, I've always appreciated his efforts on coming on here and putting across as much as he can, despite thinking that the CT has been far too pro-Wasps and happy to pee on our parade. I do get that isn't necessarily Simons agenda though.

I'd assume that these discussions where they acted as a neutral party were above his head?

I think above his pay grade!

 

[Nick]

Coun Mutton says quote about “greed running through Sisu’s DNA” was actually him quoting Bob Ainsworth who had made those comments with Parliamentary privilege in the House of Commons.He adds: “Why are they referring to independent witnesses when Mr Barber was an advisor for ARVO and certainly not independent.”
He adds the AEG representative was also not independent as he had business incentives to work with Sisu.
Sisu’s lawyer says she believes Mr Barber, an advisor to Sisu company ARVO at the time, was independent. She adds Mr Goacher should have interviewed Mr Barber.

The old "I was quoting somebody else" line... Didn't Ann Lucas use that not so long ago where she was just quoting what fans thought about hell freezing over?

Interesting he is trying to discredit witnesses that haven't even been called rather than say he didn't actually say anything or act in the wrong manner?

 

[Nick]

John Mutton says: “You tried to make a big play of ‘bad faith’.
“Can you explain why when we were in a position of negotiation, you were going down a different avenue of travel? Would you explain why in a period of negotiation Sisu had made bids to Yorkshire Bank in December?”


“Never” replies Sisu’s lawyer.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I think above his pay grade!

Yeah, I expect so as well but would he have known anything at all? Not trying to dig him out here btw.

 

[Nick]

Yeah, I expect so as well but would he have known anything at all? Not trying to dig him out here btw.

No idea, not something to suggest hear say about though.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Can we get this included as the Guest Publication on the Missing Words round on Have I Got News For You?
I'd be surprised if the redacted word on Line 1 of that paragraph is any longer than three letters!!

 

[Nick]

Coun Mutton asks Sisu lawyer if she can accept some people felt the council needed to respond when Tim Fisher, CCFC chief executive at the time, was making negative comments in the press at the time.
“No” replies Sisu’s lawyer.
Coun Mutton replies: “So what’s good for one isn’t for another?”
Coun Linda Bigham indicates Sisu’s lawyer seems to be presenting presumptions as a result of heavily redacted emails, but suggests she “can’t see” some of what is being suggested.
Sisu’s lawyer says the full unredacted versions are in the possession of Coventry City Council so could be made available.

Still seems like he is justifying what happened rather than saying it didn't happen?

 

[CCFC_Charlie]

Can anyone sum what we've found out so far?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Still seems like he is justifying what happened rather than saying it didn't happen?

He'll lose his rag and start spouting off I reckon. Give him enough rope and all that.

 

[Nick]

Interesting about Mutton just quoting somebody else.

His words were:

It is absolutely true that SISU is a predator with greed running through its DNA

Doesn't look like he was quoting somebody there, he was saying it from his point of view.

 

[olderskyblue]

There is one from a council employee that says it?

Page 40 here - http://democraticservices.coventry.gov.uk/documents/s26521/Appendix 5b Documents.pdf

Blimey nick, you didn't highlight the scariest part of that paragraph...

Coun Lucas raises her eyebrows at this remark.

 

[Nick]

Looks like the investigator who has been appealed against is going at SISU now:

Mr Goacher suggests that Sisu’s complaint that they have suffered losses provides an insight into the motives for the complaint and underlines a lack of understanding of the process.
He said: “Despite no evidence of loss being provided to support the allegations of damages they have suffered, there’s no ability for the council to award compensation through this procedure.
“This provides insight into their motives and demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of this process.”

Report author Mr Goacher says he doesn’t feel Sisu have understood the complaints regime.
He adds: “they have demonstrated a lack of understanding of the very narrow parameters we have to consider.
“Clearly the complainant doesn’t like what has been done, but the question for you is whether you can make findings on the complaints that have actually been made.”

Surely , if the complaint is personal attacks and they have emails saying how they are going to target her then it is black and white?

 

[Nick]

This from LEs Reid:

Council hired investigator now defends his work. Says it complied with standards regime for England &he had discretion as to a fair protocol

(2of2)council hired investigator Goacher: "was difficult to nail down what complainants were complaining of & how it related to 2 (leaders)"

 

[Nick]

Chair Coun Clifford asks how Sisu lawyer feels the council’s code of conduct has been breached by comments made by councillors - reference to “Sisu greed” highlighted.
She replies “some of the marks are highly defamatory, the code talks about respect”.
Coun Clifford pushes the point.
She replies the code says “always treat people with respect”.

 

[hill83]

So is the Mr Goacher the one making the final decision? He's firing out headlocks at the moment.

 

[Nick]

So is the Mr Goacher the one making the final decision? He's firing out headlocks at the moment.

Nah, he is the one who did a report saying the council did nothing wrong that SISU appealed. He doesn't seem to think much to SISU.

 

[Nick]

mr goacher said there was nothing in the evidence to support allegations that coun mutton had behaved in a “sexist” way

he adds: “you would have thought if this was as distressing as the complainants say they would have been able to provide something specific.
“they may say they can’t be expected to remember things from three years ago. But that’s the risk you take when you wait three years to make a complaint

Mr goacher has also laid into the credibility of sisu’s complaint, citing a hug between coun mutton and joy seppala at the end of a meeting where coun mutton was alleged to have been “aggressive” and “sexist"

he said: “i can understand the difficulty in raising concerns at the time of the meeting, or immediately afterwards. But is it reasonable or credible not to raise it for three years? Or to hug at the end of the meeting? It’s my submission that lacks credibility.”

 

[fernandopartridge]

The outcome is is largely an irrelevance, it's just a means of getting more documents out into the public domain to demonstrate that the council were not interested in coming to an agreement with SISU. The likes of Mutton will aid this process.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Is any/all of this admissible or likely to be heard at the JR hearing at Court of Appeal in January? If so, I can certainly see the sense in kicking the hornets' nest!

 

[Nick]

We’re back underway. Mr Goacher says he has summed up his report in a “slightly unusual way”.

He said this was because usually it’s fairly easy to address the nature of the complaint, but this was not the case this time.

He said: “With this complaint it has sometimes been difficult to understand exactly what the complainants are complaining about and how they relate to the two councillors and, even more, how that amounts to a breach of the code of conduct.”

So he was investigating a complaint, but he didn't really know what the complaint was? Surely you would ask the complainants to see what their beef was?

 

[Nick]

(3of3) Goacher says reeves west Collingham all accept dealings with Weber Shandwick but on ACL side. But collingham is Council PR, not ACL

(4of4)he adds if reasonable suspicions over complaint,he'd have sought evidence but none to link 2 leaders. Er - Commane email for starters?

 

[James Smith]

Another Les Reid article, no bias there then :thinking about:

I think you may need to cut your caffeine intake, this is as others have said council documents.

 

[Nick]

Mr Goacher said: “I don’t think the council officials have ever denied being in contact with Weber Shandwick, albeit through ACL.”

In relation to the councillors’ denial of being involved in a targeted media campaign, he said: “I don’t think there’s any reasonable grounds for suggesting they’re lying

“The complainants haven’t raised a reasonable link to suggest there was that involvement. They’ve provided a lot of evidence about Weber Shandwick but held back other documents and seemingly expected me to guess some information

“That’s not how I would expect these proceedings to work, and certainly not how its worked with other complainants.”

Surely an email from a council employee about getting the go ahead for the media war is enough to show something was going on?