365 Revenue at Chesterfield (34 Viewers)

Nick

Administrator
Ask ML about spin, but I would have come to Cov, as Joy, with TF straight after the demise of Dulux. I would have apologised for the mistakes to date and asked what was needed from both sides to move forward. I would have praised the council and looked forward to a successful cooperation in the future. At the same time I would have asked my staff for a costing and plausibility of a new stadium build. Knowing what the potential costs and risks were, I would have based my offer on that. If it costs 30m for an inferior stadium, then I can go that high to secure an existing stadium which has everything I want and is in Coventry. Offering 2m for Higgs' as a charitable gesture was a joke and has cost us and Joy dearly. It costs nothing to be nice. Coming in with all guns blazing and Tim storming out of the Ricoh, followed by ML and his wearing different hats stint was never going to achieve getting the Ricoh for under a new build cost.

Yes, ML was very much spinning but it turns out some of his spin was actually true wasn't it? Do you get much more spin then local newspapers making agreements to suppress news?

Praised the council for what though? Carrying out a PR attack against her?

Why was it a joke to offer them that when Wasps only paid them a bit more and a much longer lease?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Where do you get this ridiculous notion that SISU couldn't afford to run it? Wasps bought it and immeadiately mortgaged it yet you believe they can afford it? SISU did make a reasonable offer of 2 million without the lease extension given to Wasps who paid 2.77 million. You see and hear what you want. You believe what you want. You're not open to new information or even existing information.

Really ?

"On 18 June 2012, SISU made an offer to the Higgs Charity for its share in ACL, setout in an Indicative Term Sheet, for £5.5m, in the form of £1.5m immediate cash andan additional £4m in future payments. However, there were a number of expressconditions precedent, namely that completion would only take place after:i) approval of the transaction’s commercial terms, structure and legal frameworkby the Charity’s trustees, on advice from its advisors;ii) agreement between the Bank and SISU, as to the buy out of the ACL loan;"

"SISU considered that the Bank debt could be purchased for £2m-5m. It was part oftheir plan that the debt be purchased – in whole, or at least as to 50%, by them – forthat sum. They were not prepared to offer more. The Heads of Terms supposed that,the debt having been purchased, it would be entirely written off; although the Councilwas sensible to the possibility that SISU might purchase the debt from the Bank(which had no constraints on the person to whom the loan and mortgage might betransferred) and use their position as creditor to put further pressure on ACL and thusthe Council."

Please read the JR findings. It was never going to happen.
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
Ask ML about spin, but I would have come to Cov, as Joy, with TF straight after the demise of Dulux. I would have apologised for the mistakes to date and asked what was needed from both sides to move forward. I would have praised the council and looked forward to a successful cooperation in the future. At the same time I would have asked my staff for a costing and plausibility of a new stadium build. Knowing what the potential costs and risks were, I would have based my offer on that. If it costs 30m for an inferior stadium, then I can go that high to secure an existing stadium which has everything I want and is in Coventry. Offering 2m for Higgs' as a charitable gesture was a joke and has cost us and Joy dearly. It costs nothing to be nice. Coming in with all guns blazing and Tim storming out of the Ricoh, followed by ML and his wearing different hats stint was never going to achieve getting the Ricoh for under a new build cost.

But that's all they got for it anyway!!!!!!!!!!
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Full potential? There going back to having concerts in the summer? They might use the exhibition hall bit more? You don't get much bigger than the Olympics. It will never realise it's full potential with Wasps in charge. That is because they are a franchise. That is because ethically and morally franchising is wrong. That is because the only reason they are here is financial greed. Not for their love of Coventry or wanting the Ricoh to fulfill it's 'full' potential. Therefore that will diminish the achievements if there are any. Thankfully not all people are like you. I would like to believe that people like you are in the minority.

How naive does that sound?
No wonder you don't want to see Sisu business case and just run when they wind you !!
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
Stop playing stupid Italia. You're fully aware an offer of 2 million was made for the Higgs share of ACL. You are also aware that the judge in the JR said there was a lack of appetite on BOTH sides to conclude a deal. That means in case you're not sure that SISU and HIGGS didn't want to complete a deal. Not just SISU, they couldn't complete the deal on their own.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what you "believe". I might believe in fairies doesn't mean they exist. You're just scaremongering as it suits your POV. SISU wanted a 125 lease and CCC refused yet gave a team with zero ties to the area a 250 one, effectively a freehold.

TBH "clowns in charge" could refer any of the sides involved.

So with Wasps out the way what do you really think Sisu would do next ?
Base your answer on previous dealings and the fact they needed to recuperate debt.

I believe they would have continued to run ACL down and the council obviously believed the same.
From the CC ratepayers view the Ricoh is buzzing. (Excuse the pun)
Businesses are finally recovering from the Northampton period and investing in the area.

From a CCFC point of view it is crap but with these clowns in charge it could be expected.
Some fans believe that the Sisu plan, if it worked, would have been acceptable.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Not denied, but emphasises how badly the relationship managed to collapse. I hold Dulux responsible for a lot of this. He not only ruined it for us and CCFC, but screwed up Joy's SISU business in the process. Her investors wouldn't be too pleased if they got to judge Dulux' record at CCFC.

Should I chose Daffodil or Mist Blue, decisions decisions.

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torchomatic

Well-Known Member

martcov

Well-Known Member
Yes, ML was very much spinning but it turns out some of his spin was actually true wasn't it? Do you get much more spin then local newspapers making agreements to suppress news?

Praised the council for what though? Carrying out a PR attack against her?

Why was it a joke to offer them that when Wasps only paid them a bit more and a much longer lease?

praise the council on her first meeting. Ask how we can work together etc.... Then maybe the PR attack won't happen. ML was not right to say he didn't hear an offer because he was wearing a different hat. Of course he did, but chose to be a twat. He was not right about Joy offering to pay Her own costs as a charitable act. The judge said he was going to order both sides to pay their own costs anyway. He was not right to offer an open forum and then let it quietly die. He was not right to come out with a knee injury at a convenient time. Yes, I do think that there was a lot more spin than just a local newspaper suppressing a story. Give ML credit where it is due.

yes, it was a joke. We have been quoted 30m for an inferior new build somewhere near Coventry by Tim. The Ricoh was/ is worth up to 30m for us as a football club in Cov. It is worth maybe less to investors, which is a problem. Are we a football club or an asset in an investor's portfolio? Any new stadium will now cost more than 30m because of the problems finding a site and all the necessary discussions, alterations, restrictions etc. That can come out of the planning process.

The value of the Ricoh to us was different to a price on the open market. The market for stadia in Coventry being restrictive.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
But that's all they got for it anyway!!!!!!!!!!

Not the point. Not interested in Wasps good luck. What have we lost because of haggling? A new build will not have the facilities of the Ricoh and not be in Coventry and cost a lot more. We don't have a stadium and there is nothing on the horizon other than now renting from ACL. The Butts won't happen for the reasons mentioned by other posters on here.
 

Nick

Administrator
praise the council on her first meeting. Ask how we can work together etc.... Then maybe the PR attack won't happen. ML was not right to say he didn't hear an offer because he was wearing a different hat. Of course he did, but chose to be a twat. He was not right about Joy offering to pay Her own costs as a charitable act. The judge said he was going to order both sides to pay their own costs anyway. He was not right to offer an open forum and then let it quietly die. He was not right to come out with a knee injury at a convenient time. Yes, I do think that there was a lot more spin than just a local newspaper suppressing a story. Give ML credit where it is due.
OK, so SISU should praise the council and then maybe they wouldn't get a PR attack? Nice!

He was not right to injure his knee????

There is a lot more than just a local newspaper suppressing a story, quite worrying really. Seems a much bigger issue than ML I think.

The value of the ricoh to us was different, it seems the price was quite rightly higher to us than a Rugby team from London which seems OK in your eyes.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I am genuinely amazed that the CT angle hasn't been roundly condemned not only by other media outlets but the Club and fans of the club.

OK, so SISU should praise the council and then maybe they wouldn't get a PR attack? Nice!

He was not right to injure his knee????

There is a lot more than just a local newspaper suppressing a story, quite worrying really. Seems a much bigger issue than ML I think.

The value of the ricoh to us was different, it seems the price was quite rightly higher to us than a Rugby team from London which seems OK in your eyes.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Where do you get this ridiculous notion that SISU couldn't afford to run it? Wasps bought it and immeadiately mortgaged it yet you believe they can afford it? SISU did make a reasonable offer of 2 million without the lease extension given to Wasps who paid 2.77 million. You see and hear what you want. You believe what you want. You're not open to new information or even existing information.

CCFC would not be able to mortgage it.
Our Chairman has stated we couldn't run it as it is set up.

You see and hear what you want. You believe what you want. You're not open to new information or even existing information.
 

Nick

Administrator
I am genuinely amazed that the CT angle hasn't been roundly condemned not only by other media outlets but the Club and fans of the club.

Yeah it is a bit strange isn't it. There are people on Twitter saying Les Reid shouldn't give evidence and proof of what really went on.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
OK, so SISU should praise the council and then maybe they wouldn't get a PR attack? Nice!

He was not right to injure his knee????

There is a lot more than just a local newspaper suppressing a story, quite worrying really. Seems a much bigger issue than ML I think.

The value of the ricoh to us was different, it seems the price was quite rightly higher to us than a Rugby team from London which seems OK in your eyes.

Did he injure his knee? It is a fact that the value to an established football club with most of its supporter base in and around Coventry is likely to be higher than to an outsider who must first invest to build up a supporter base. Not a question of right and wrong. The value to us is related to the costs of an alternative new build and it's location. The tail end of the story and the newspaper article are not the cause of the disaster. The approach by TF and Joy at the start was commercially wrong. It resulted in us not getting what we wanted at a cheaper price than an inferior new build. If you praise me, you are less likely to be attacked by me and are more likely to get what you want from me. That's life.
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
That's the same chairmen who was trying to drive the price down? Just a thought but maybe some of the stuff Fisher has said he didn't believe it himself but it was all part of their plan to decrease the value of the Ricoh? Thanks for copying my quote. Always considered myself a trend setter ;)
 

Nick

Administrator
Did he injure his knee? It is a fact that the value to an established football club with most of its supporter base in and around Coventry is likely to be higher than to an outsider who must first invest to build up a supporter base. Not a question of right and wrong. The value to us is related to the costs of an alternative new build and it's location. The tail end of the story and the newspaper article are not the cause of the disaster. The approach by TF and Joy at the start was commercially wrong. It resulted in us not getting what we wanted at a cheaper price than an inferior new build. If you praise me, you are less likely to be attacked by me and are more likely to get what you want from me. That's life.

You would think the purchase value would be cheaper to an established football club in the area wouldn't you? How can it be a joke offer that the club offered around the same price as a random team from London actually paid?

As for the second quote, is that serious? So it's ok for somebody to punch me in the face because I didn't praise them?
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
Commercially wrong? We're talking about a hedge fund who specialise in distressing companies and asset stripping and were/are successful at it. If it was commercially wrong, surely they wouldn't have made millions out of doing it?
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
Is the editor still there? What does Simon say about it?

Simon has said nothing, surprisingly. He has always said he was an advocate of free press and people knowing all the details. Apart from the local council selling to an out of town rugby club. Nice work Mr Gilbert!
 

Nick

Administrator
Simon has said nothing, surprisingly. He has always said he was an advocate of free press and people knowing all the details. Apart from the local council selling to an out of town rugby club. Nice work Mr Gilbert!

In fairness, he could just not be at work. Don't think there are any new articles from him.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Simon surprisingly didn't mention it when he was doing his live blog thing...strange that.

Is the editor still there? What does Simon say about it?
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
You would think the purchase value would be cheaper to an established football club in the area wouldn't you?

As for the second quote, is that serious? So it's ok for somebody to punch me in the face because I didn't praise them?

No. The value is more. Whether the council has an interest that the club brings in revenue is a different subject. You could say that the council could accept a lesser offer from an existing club than a new one. Doesn't alter the value to us, but helps in negotiations. The value to us if only based on TF's guesstimate is up to circa 30m. We could go that high and not be worse off.

attack doesn't have to be a punch. If you slag me off and try and bully me you will get either nothing or, maybe, a punch in the face ( theoretically of course ). Which approach do you think Wasps took? CCC is a shit council and Cov is a dump? Or " Hi Ann, lovely city you have here, good communications, state of the art stadium, forward looking council etc... can we meet up with your council officers and see how we can work together to improve your lovely city?" I'll take the second as more likely.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
I think that editor seemed to happen to go just as Les Reid came back from gardening leave, very strange.

Indeed it is..... What happened to the other guy from the council ( was it Martin Reeves - can't remember the name )?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Oh sorry, Ann. We've just read that you don't agree when a team is ripped from its community so I guess we're not going to get very far with your council. Thanks anyway, maybe we'll take up the offer below. Thanks again.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...e-to-send-themselves-to-coventry-9789348.html

Hi Ann, lovely city you have here, good communications, state of the art stadium, forward looking council etc... can we meet up with your council officers and see how we can work together to improve your lovely city?" I'll take the second as more likely.
 

Nick

Administrator
No. The value is more. Whether the council has an interest that the club brings in revenue is a different subject. You could say that the council could accept a lesser offer from an existing club than a new one. Doesn't alter the value to us, but helps in negotiations. The value to us if only based on TF's guesstimate is up to circa 30m. We could go that high and not be worse off.

So you are saying CCFC should have paid more than Wasps?
 

Nick

Administrator
Indeed it is..... What happened to the other guy from the council ( was it Martin Reeves - can't remember the name )?

The one who "misinformed" Ann Lucas about it washing it's face? He has full backup from the council, so nothing has happened to him.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
You would think the purchase value would be cheaper to an established football club in the area wouldn't you?

A council should achieve best value for the taxpayer but I suspect you could make an arguement for a council taking action, such as selling at a lower price, to someone like the cities professional football club - based in the city for over 100 years.

Indeed it is..... What happened to the other guy from the council ( was it Martin Reeves - can't remember the name )?

Reeves and West are both still at the council. Both on 6 figure salaries I believe. No action seemed to be taken after Lucas stated she, and the rest of the council, had been given false information regarding the performance of ACL.
 

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