365 Revenue at Chesterfield (1 Viewer)

[martcov]

Commercially wrong? We're talking about a hedge fund who specialise in distressing companies and asset stripping and were/are successful at it. If it was commercially wrong, surely they wouldn't have made millions out of doing it?

How many millions have they made in this venture? I am referring to this investment. I wish this was as successful as some of their others.

 

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[chiefdave]

Reeves is still at CCC, this is from the CT earlier this year:

Coventry City Council’s chief executive earned £244,553 last year - over £100,000 more than the prime minister.

and Chris West:

CHRIS WEST, executive director resourcesManages the council’s finances and revenue collection, responsible for IT network and HR and workforce services.
Total earnings: £141.074

 

[martcov]

Oh sorry, Ann. We've just read that you don't agree when a team is ripped from its community so I guess we're not going to get very far with your council. Thanks anyway, maybe we'll take up the offer below. Thanks again.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...e-to-send-themselves-to-coventry-9789348.html

Interesting. 15000 seater with a hotel for 22m. Non runner for an ambitious sports club when compared with 32000 seater with casino, hotel, exhibition Hall, parking etc.. Our current aim is a 15000 seater with a hotel......

 

[martcov]

Reeves is still at CCC, this is from the CT earlier this year:



and Chris West:

Not bad. I thought Reeves was leaving....

 

[SkyBlueZack]

None. How many people invest in a football club and make money?

 

[martcov]

So you are saying CCFC should have paid more than Wasps?

I am saying it would have been economically better to offer more than anyone else, as it is worth more to us. If we had paid 29,5 m for everything, then we would have saved the investors 500000 as opposed to an inferior new build of 30 m ( amount as suggested by Tim ). We would have everything we wanted and already be playing in a "365 days a year" stadium in Coventry, instead of playing cat and mouse with Wasps. What Wasps have paid is not relevant to our commercial position. We have screwed up, not them.

 

[torchomatic]

So if say SISU moved Coventry City to a new stadium in Cornwall because it had a larger capacity, an exhibition hall, parking, etc then that would be Ok as we'd be an "ambitious sports club"?

Interesting. 15000 seater with a hotel for 22m. Non runner for an ambitious sports club when compared with 32000 seater with casino, hotel, exhibition Hall, parking etc.. Our current aim is a 15000 seater with a hotel......

 

[martcov]

None. How many people invest in a football club and make money?

No, they are well in minus. Not many, which is why Joy said she would never have allowed SISU to invest in CCFC. She claims she was unaware of CCFC being in her portfolio.

 

[chiefdave]

So if say SISU moved Coventry City to a new stadium in Cornwall because it had a larger capacity, an exhibition hall, parking, etc then that would be Ok as we'd be an "ambitious sports club"?

I imagine you would have everyone up in arms and thousands of people marching through the streets in protest.

 

[Nick]

I am saying it would have been economically better to offer more than anyone else, as it is worth more to us. If we had paid 29,5 m for everything, then we would have saved the investors 500000 as opposed to an inferior new build of 30 m ( amount as suggested by Tim ). We would have everything we wanted and already be playing in a "365 days a year" stadium in Coventry, instead of playing cat and mouse with Wasps. What Wasps have paid is not relevant to our commercial position. We have screwed up, not them.

that still doesn't explain why an offer is a joke when it is pretty much what was actually paid? Surely that means the offer was about right?

Maybe Wasps should have offered a lot more than they did, they should have offered the price of a new stadium in London then?

 

[martcov]

So if say SISU moved Coventry City to a new stadium in Cornwall because it had a larger capacity, an exhibition hall, parking, etc then that would be Ok as we'd be an "ambitious sports club"?

Of course not, but as the article says, the Rugby authorities see things differently. What I am saying though, is that the investors saw the Ricoh as a better investment- even when annoying their supporters - than a 15000 seater with hotel for 22m. Our target. Which is why I say we could have paid for Higgs and CCC shares ( price based on Higgs' half ), the loan and still be in a better position than now..... Had we gone about it the right way, as Wasps obviously did.

 

[stupot07]

I am saying it would have been economically better to offer more than anyone else, as it is worth more to us. If we had paid 29,5 m for everything, then we would have saved the investors 500000 as opposed to an inferior new build of 30 m ( amount as suggested by Tim ). We would have everything we wanted and already be playing in a "365 days a year" stadium in Coventry, instead of playing cat and mouse with Wasps. What Wasps have paid is not relevant to our commercial position. We have screwed up, not them.

Lolz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[chiefdave]

Of course not, but as the article says, the Rugby authorities see things differently. What I am saying though, is that the investors saw the Ricoh as a better investment- even when annoying their supporters - than a 15000 seater with hotel for 22m. Our target. Which is why I say we could have paid for Higgs and CCC shares ( price based on Higgs' half ), the loan and still be in a better position than now..... Had we gone about it the right way, as Wasps obviously did.

I can see the point you're making. That if it will cost us £20m for a new ground why not bid £20m for ACL. However that brings you back to the council's sale process. If it had been placed on the open market and muliple potential purchasers came forward it would have driven the price up and enabled us as fans to see what was going on and place pressure on SISU to make an offer.

 

[martcov]

that still doesn't explain why an offer is a joke when it is pretty much what was actually paid? Surely that means the offer was about right?

Maybe Wasps should have offered a lot more than they did, they should have offered the price of a new stadium in London then?

It was a joke, knowing the value to us. The real value being irrelevant. We needed a stadium. The investors were, according to Tim, backing a stadium build for ca 30m. To buy a half share in ACL for 5,5m cash was in comparison a great chance. Whether Wasps got it for 2,5m, 10m or whatever. For us, it was an "in" and a basis for a similar offer to CCC for their half. Pay the loan at whatever deal you could get and then negotiate over the lease - if necessary do what Wasps did and pay another 1m in, or 2m. What the hell, it would have been cheaper and easier in the long run. We would have an asset and a sellable club.

 

[torchomatic]

The rugby authorities? What about the fans? Do they see things differently? OK, so let me ask you again. We're moving to Cornwall as we are an "ambitious sports club" and the FL are going to let us do it because they "see things differently".

It's OK now then presumably or are you going to think of something else to excuse the move and make out it's ok for one team but not for another?

Everyone should have had chance to bid for the Ricoh, not just Wasps.

Of course not, but as the article says, the Rugby authorities see things differently. What I am saying though, is that the investors saw the Ricoh as a better investment- even when annoying their supporters - than a 15000 seater with hotel for 22m. Our target. Which is why I say we could have paid for Higgs and CCC shares ( price based on Higgs' half ), the loan and still be in a better position than now..... Had we gone about it the right way, as Wasps obviously did.

 

[Nick]

Of course not, but as the article says, the Rugby authorities

We aren't talking about the views of the Rugby authorities though.

 

[martcov]

I can see the point you're making. That if it will cost us £20m for a new ground why not bid £20m for ACL. However that brings you back to the council's sale process. If it had been placed on the open market and muliple potential purchasers came forward it would have driven the price up and enabled us as fans to see what was going on and place pressure on SISU to make an offer.

What is the open market? Not many out there. We should have gone in on friendly terms, worked out the alternative to see how far we could go before it would be better to build our own stadium. Offer to put forward our plans to the council, and make sure they get reported so that the public knows SISU are serious ( not naming prices ). They actually did one presentation from AEG event company. Missed opportunity.

 

[martcov]

The rugby authorities? What about the fans? Do they see things differently? OK, so let me ask you again. We're moving to Cornwall as we are an "ambitious sports club" and the FL are going to let us do it because they "see things differently".

It's OK now then presumably or are you going to think of something else to excuse the move and make out it's ok for one team but not for another?

Everyone should have had chance to bid for the Ricoh, not just Wasps.

we had first option for the Higgs' share and the stadium was our idea. We should have put forward a business case and have obtained preference based on the iniative coming from us. It was always to be ours. Pay off the loan, buy the shares pay a premium for the lease extension. Doesn't need to placed on the market. We were the original purpose of the stadium bowl.

the fl are not going to allow us to move anywhere. Quite frankly, I am not interested in Wasps or their fans. I am interested in us, our missed opportunity and our insecure future.

I don't get the obsession with Rugby franchises. Not interested. Please don't ask me about them, ask Italia, he knows more than I do.

 

[chiefdave]

What is the open market? Not many out there.

You can't possibly know that as it was never placed on the open market. There were many who thought there would be no other interest apart from CCFC, turned out to be wrong so how can anyone assert with any confidence there wouldn't have been others interested?

Even if there wasn't you only need two (CCFC and Wasps) for a bidding war. An open sale process could easily have pushed the sale price up meaning a better return for the taxpayer and the charity.

 

[martcov]

We aren't talking about the views of the Rugby authorities though.

The article is about Rugby teams. The only interesting bit being that Wasps rejected what we are looking for ( with a budget of 30 m ) in favour of the Ricoh.

 

[chiefdave]

we had first option for the Higgs' share

And CCC had a veto over any sale of Higgs share.

 

[torchomatic]

Higgs shares. Yes, stitched up by Higgs, CCC and Wasps weren't we?

I don't get people - there are many on here - who apparently don't care about Wasps but who constantly back them and make excuses for them; and against the club they support, Coventry City.

Strange has passionate people get for a team they are "not interested" about.

I don't get the obsession with Rugby franchises. Not interested. Please don't ask me about them, ask Italia, he knows more than I do.

 

[Nick]

we had first option for the Higgs' share and the stadium was our idea. We should have put forward a business case and have obtained preference based on the iniative coming from us. It was always to be ours. Pay off the loan, buy the shares pay a premium for the lease extension. Doesn't need to placed on the market. We were the original purpose of the stadium bowl.

the fl are not going to allow us to move anywhere. Quite frankly, I am not interested in Wasps or their fans. I am interested in us, our missed opportunity and our insecure future.

I don't get the obsession with Rugby franchises. Not interested. Please don't ask me about them, ask Italia, he knows more than I do.

Yes, but it always depends on price doesn't it? It is all well and good saying go and buy it, didn't they want £24 million just for the food and beverage rights?

You then say pay a premium, what did Wasps pay for the premium?

 

[Nick]

The article is about Rugby teams. The only interesting bit being that Wasps rejected what we are looking for ( with a budget of 30 m ) in favour of the Ricoh.

But you were asked whether it would be ok for CCFC to move like Wasps did?

 

[martcov]

You can't possibly know that as it was never placed on the open market. There were many who thought there would be no other interest apart from CCFC, turned out to be wrong so how can anyone assert with any confidence there wouldn't have been others interested?

Even if there wasn't you only need two (CCFC and Wasps) for a bidding war. An open sale process could easily have pushed the sale price up meaning a better return for the taxpayer and the charity.

Sorry, but I am more interested in the benefit for CCFC who were sitting tennants and on whose initiative the whole thing started. Had SISU moved quickly on a friendly basis, all the PR bending and rule stretching would have been in CCFCs direction. We do know that there were not people queuing up for the Ricoh and a quick move starting with buying the share and paying off the loan would have settled it.

 

[martcov]

But you were asked whether it would be ok for CCFC to move like Wasps did?

And I said " of course not ".

 

[martcov]

Yes, but it always depends on price doesn't it? It is all well and good saying go and buy it, didn't they want £24 million just for the food and beverage rights?

Higgs wanted 5,5m cash for a half share. The council wanted primarily out of the 14.4m loan.

You then say pay a premium, what did Wasps pay for the premium?

1m in a distressed situation. Maybe we should have offered more, but then came the "freehold or nothing" quote and subsequent 125 years would be OK. So, there was a basic negotiation.

 

[chiefdave]

Had SISU moved quickly on a friendly basis, all the PR bending and rule stretching would have been in CCFCs direction.

But you don't know what happened before all the PR and walking out. From what I have been told the move to Northampton was initiated as the club couldn't get ACL to the table to negociate a better deal. They claimed they didn't need CCFC so the current deal could be left to run its course in a like it or lump it fashion.

 

[chiefdave]

Yes, but it always depends on price doesn't it? It is all well and good saying go and buy it, didn't they want £24 million just for the food and beverage rights?

£24m was quoted just for matchday revenues. The formula price to buy the Higgs share was in the region of £10m.

 

[italiahorse]

Have a read of the evidence Paul harris gave in that / higgs court thing about an offer being in the region of £2m.

Yes .... with conditions that we now know YB would not entertain.

 

[italiahorse]

You would think the purchase value would be cheaper to an established football club in the area wouldn't you? How can it be a joke offer that the club offered around the same price as a random team from London actually paid?

As for the second quote, is that serious? So it's ok for somebody to punch me in the face because I didn't praise them?

Are you totally ignoring the conditions that would need to have been met before they handed over the money ?

 

[Nick]

Are you totally ignoring the conditions that would need to have been met before they handed over the money ?

Have you got the list as well as the terms of the Wasps deal?

 

[italiahorse]

I imagine you would have everyone up in arms and thousands of people marching through the streets in protest.

No, we would not bother going if it was permanent.

 

[Nick]

No, we would not bother going if it was permanent.

It would be ok, you could slag off the locals who went to watch CCFC games in the new location. :claping hands::facepalm:

 

[torchomatic]

But you go to Wasps and that's permanent. What's the difference?

No, we would not bother going if it was permanent.