Supporters' group tells Coventry City FC owners to clarify stadium plans (16 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Sorry. I should have said a serious bid.

Clearly it didn't match the Wasps bid which is also further proof that they wouldn't have done the Wasps deal. Which is the deal I was talking about.

So the bid that included paying off the whole loan while still allowing the council 50% ownership wasn't serious?

 

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[Astute]

It was in a letter dated 13 November 2013 referring to a proposed deal in 2012 of paying off the entirety of the bank loan and buying 50% of ACL on the proviso the lease was extended to 125 years.

What was the offer to Higgs and what were they going to offer YB then?

 

[Monners]

Can we change the bane of this thread please to "History being re-written"

 

[Astute]

Can we change the bane of this thread please to "History being re-written"

I prefer it when Grendel rewrites history

 

[skybluetony176]

So the bid that included paying off the whole loan while still allowing the council 50% ownership wasn't serious?

This is the one that a judge said neither party had an interest in moving forward with? Well unless the judge is a liar or doesn't understand the ruling he was making then no. It wasn't serious.

I wasn't actually talking about that I was talking about the likes of you claiming that SISU would have taken the Wasps bid if they'd been offered it. FP has just highlighted exactly why they wouldn't have and you change the subject. No surprise there.

 

[Monners]

I also quite like rish tea bicuits

 

[Captain Dart]

Snap. Similar to CCC letting Wasps having the Arena for 250 years for a fraction of its value.

You're missing the point, the issue was paying off that £14M debt, not the lease length as that was obviously negotiated up to a point where it was effectively forever.

 

[Grendel]

What was the offer to Higgs and what were they going to offer YB then?

The offer is known. It was described as well over what the Higgs share in isolation was worth - by senior councillors.

As for the loan you again seem to be overlooking the fact that the only evidence we have of a reduced loan offer to the Yorkshire bank was actually from CCC not sisu who on at least two occasions contacted the bank with a reduced offer on the basis the business was not sustainable at the full amount.

 

[Astute]

The big difference is the £14.4m loan. Once the council had taken it on it wasn't something that could be distressed like the one from the YB perhaps could have been. Why would you buy a loan that isn't really worth anything?

I agree. But the only problem is that it means Wasps paid too much for the arena. And some won't agree with that at all.

 

[Astute]

The offer is known. It was described as well over what the Higgs share in isolation was worth - by senior councillors.

As for the loan you again seem to be overlooking the fact that the only evidence we have of a reduced loan offer to the Yorkshire bank was actually from CCC not sisu who on at least two occasions contacted the bank with a reduced offer on the basis the business was not sustainable at the full amount.

What offer?

 

[Captain Dart]

They made a bid including the paying off of the loan.

But I'll bet they never provided any security to guarantee that the loan would be paid off. That was a big issue in earlier negotiations, they simply could not raise the money but Derek Richardson could & did, then of course got it back with the bond issue.

 

[Grendel]

I agree. But the only problem is that it means Wasps paid too much for the arena. And some won't agree with that at all.

So under £6 million was too much - incredible.

 

[Nick]

But I'll bet they never provided any security to guarantee that the loan would be paid off. That was a big issue in earlier negotiations, they simply could not raise the money but Derek Richardson could & did, then of course got it back with the bond issue.

Was it ever said that he paid it and then repaid the debt with the bond? Or did he pay the Council directly with the bond?*

*Not saying you are wrong, just didn't know.

 

[Astute]

So under £6 million was too much - incredible.

They paid off the loan that you said was well over the value of the RICOH. Incredible.

And what about this offer you mentioned?

 

[Captain Dart]

What offer?

An undocumented, unaccountable, untracable offer made in the full view of all media outlets. Contents unfathomable, some positive sounding details leaked of course.

 

[skybluetony176]

So under £6 million was too much - incredible.

And a loan that isn't worth anything remember.

Although I do agree with you that they still got it on the cheap it is clear (IMO) it still wasn't a price that SISU were willing to match for the reasons that you keep ignoring from FP's original post.

 

[Grendel]

But I'll bet they never provided any security to guarantee that the loan would be paid off. That was a big issue in earlier negotiations, they simply could not raise the money but Derek Richardson could & did, then of course got it back with the bond issue.

Well no because we know that the council had already approached the bank in 2012 and advised the bank that CCC will never deal with sisu - it was at that point they advised the bank they will pay the loan off on full and at that point decided to work on an "exit strategy" that included isolating the football club.

It should be observed also this was around the time there were rumours that Dereck Richardson was trying to talk to CRFC before he had even purchased wasps.

 

[Nick]

An undocumented, unaccountable, untracable offer made in the full view of all media outlets. Contents unfathomable, some positive sounding details leaked of course.

Sounds a bit like the wasps deal

 

[The_Coventry]

Surely people can see the reasoning why CCC could not take a risk of putting all their eggs in one basket and wait for Sisu to buy the stadium?
They had only just returned after removing the club to Northampton and at the time said they could not afford it.
They were still talking of a new stadium (and still are) effectively saying when we move CCC you can pick up the pieces.
As for representing the people of Coventry I would guess that most of them would say they did.
Sisu gambled with our club, for 'their' gain and lost.

Sometimes we need to see the bigger picture by taking off our sky blue tinted glasses.

Even if SISU had the money I think it's become quite apparent that the council had no intention of selling to them.

 

[Astute]

An undocumented, unaccountable, untracable offer made in the full view of all media outlets. Contents unfathomable, some positive sounding details leaked of course.

Hold on a minute. Grendel is trying to think of a way of making it sound like a decent offer

 

[Captain Dart]

The big difference is the £14.4m loan. Once the council had taken it on it wasn't something that could be distressed like the one from the YB perhaps could have been. Why would you buy a loan that isn't really worth anything?

Do you think that maybe the Wasps offer was in negotiation already when the decision to take that loan on was made by the full council in camera? I don't know but is that plausible.

 

[The_Coventry]

There's people on here who had a clue about Wasps before it was announced. Do a search and you'll find posts.

I was told months before but put it down to a ridiculous rumour.

 

[Captain Dart]

Sounds a bit like the wasps deal

That offer was accepted, this wasn't. Why not? Maybe it was no where near as good or maybe it was simply far too late & brinkmanship backfired.

Only the negotiating parties know & they can't disclose details.

 

[Astute]

Even if SISU had the money I think it's become quite apparent that the council had no intention of selling to them.

Many of us didn't want them to sell it to them either. They wanted it to make money and not benefit our club. But we didn't want Wasps to get it either. We wanted it to be kept until we had decent owners.

 

[Grendel]

That offer was accepted, this wasn't. Why not? Maybe it was no where near as good or maybe it was simply far too late & brinkmanship backfired.

Only the negotiating parties know & they can't disclose details.

It was because CCC made a strategic decision to refuse to engage with the club and look to dispose to anyone else who was interested.

 

[Astute]

I was told months before but put it down to a ridiculous rumour.

And SISU didn't have a clue?

 

[Astute]

It was because CCC made a strategic decision to refuse to engage with the club and look to dispose to anyone else who was interested.

Absolute bollocks. SISU wouldn't negotiate. They got offers to meet. It was a take it or leave it offer. And they wanted the freehold.

So what was this offer you said about?

 

[tisza]

But didn't Fisher say afterwards (maybe to the SCG amongst others) that the Wasps deal was a bad one for Wasps and one that SISU wouldn't have done?

 

[skybluetony176]

It was because CCC made a strategic decision to refuse to engage with the club and look to dispose to anyone else who was interested.

This is the same CCC who after making the announcement that they'd listen to any serious offer refused to engage with the club by sending the council leader down to London on the train to meet JS at SISU HQ to discuss their "serious" bid? Talk about writing your own history. You're not Spanish by any chance are you?

 

[Astute]

But didn't Fisher say afterwards (maybe to the SCG amongst others) that the Wasps deal was a bad one for Wasps and one that SISU wouldn't have done?

I'll beat Grendel to his normal reply.

So you choose to believe when Fisher is telling the truth when it suits you

 

[Grendel]

Hold on a minute. Grendel is trying to think of a way of making it sound like a decent offer

Considering you actually think that the purchase price included a loan debt to the company then there is little point in discussing it.

I'm not saying it was a good offer. That was Mr West - a point you conveniently ignore, or in all probability goes over your head.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I agree. But the only problem is that it means Wasps paid too much for the arena. And some won't agree with that at all.

They didn't pay that for the arena as such. They paid it to the council to pay off the council's debt, albeit without the "small profit" the council used to justify taking on the debt originally.

Imagine buying a house where the current owner has decided to remortgage and now owes its lender more than the value of the house. You wouldn't want to take that debt on would you?

 

[fernandopartridge]

An undocumented, unaccountable, untracable offer made in the full view of all media outlets. Contents unfathomable, some positive sounding details leaked of course.

We've not seen that detail from Wasps either remember

 

[fernandopartridge]

Do you think that maybe the Wasps offer was in negotiation already when the decision to take that loan on was made by the full council in camera? I don't know but is that plausible.

Maybe. Nothing would surprise me.

 

[Grendel]

This is the same CCC who after making the announcement that they'd listen to any serious offer refused to engage with the club by sending the council leader down to London on the train to meet JS at SISU HQ to discuss their "serious" bid? Talk about writing your own history. You're not Spanish by any chance are you?

Well of course she did and made it very public - even though the other side wanted confidentiality.

Fairly obvious why - so gullible morons like you can come to the conclusion you have.