madders gone (28 Viewers)

[Nick]

Got to have the facilities for the Academy though it isn't just about the players. For instance Category 2 requires indoor training facilities. As I understood it the indoor facilities at the Higgs were worn out and needed replacing. Has that been settled, have we the finances to settle it if needed. Lose the Cat 2 we lose a chunk of funding and the spiral down continues

they will win the JR and turn the council house into a retro indoor training centre.*


*I dont think this will happen, just to clarify.

 

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[Warwickhunt]

What is the silly money that allowed this then. As if it wasn't agreed by Mowbray I see him walking. He doesn't need this nonsense we are used to. If Mowbray defends the deal, there's more to it than we can see now

TM knows his back was to the wall and had to shore up the defence and the only way he was getting what he wanted ( a big fuck off defender with premiership skills) he had to pay the wages they command and i think the sacrifice of Maddison was to achieve that goal. If you are like me I have been worried about our ability to defend in the last 6 games and it is getting worse. TM has been down this route before as Middlesborough fell away after Xmas and he could'nt get the players he wanted. If TM keeps us in the play off position to the season end then it justifys the means

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Mowbray will be off. No way can he work properly with people like Sisu!

Dunno about off but he won't be taken for a mug, he will want to know where every penny of that fee will be going

 

[Imissandywhing]

some great points.

Surprised that this has happened now. Thought it would happen in the summer...... but not to Norwich.

If it is £2m, then for a young lad who as yet has proven very little in L1 let alone higher, is a decent valuation. Comparing it to say Deli Ali is a bit of a stretch to be honest, that was £5m for a player of same age that had played 100 or so first team games and had influenced the results in a bigger percentage of games than Maddison. To expect £7m for Maddison right now or even in the summer is frankly fantasy in my opinion. He may become worth that but he isn't now. Yes he has potential but no real track record

There may of course be add ons so the overall fee might be bigger assuming he succeeds at Norwich. Transfer fees are usually staggered payments so the financial effect will be spread too. Unlikely there will be a big upfront payment I would think. Say it is £2m in value then in current circumstances TM gets 60% added to his budget at the time that each payment is made so that 1.2m increase in budget could/would be spread over two years or something like. However part of the value will include the value of the loan - its cost, so that reduces the budget available. Is that loan valued at his new wages, the old wages or some other figure

A club like Norwich probably does give Maddison a better opportunity to play in the first team than say Spurs or Liverpool so for him it is a better option probably , and in any case he is still young and the opportunity to move is going to be there in the future. Certainly the worst it could be is the opportunity to definitely be playing in the Championship if he is good enough next season.

I find the comments of Anderson a little troubling. A sale of Maddison at a guessed at £2m secures the clubs future ...... really ? It is not exactly big numbers is it and it will be spread over probably two years. Just how many proven players have we got signed on past 30th June 2016?

Seemed to be rushed through but was it? TM clearly didn't want him to go. Listening to his after match comments on Saturday then there did seem to be something going on judging by his comments about transfers. I might be reading too much in to that but I did wonder at the time.

Can we now put to bed this idea that SISU are backing a promotion push with extra funds? Personally I still think SISU have drawn a line under the finance and said get on with it sink or swim........ but still retain the final decision on the sales/purchases (as you would expect)

Bottom line is nothing in the finances has really changed, we are still in a mess, we still rely on crowds turning up and player sales............. but therein lies the conundrum we need to sell to fund the team but in so doing lose our best talent, which in turn puts at risk any success on the pitch which in its turn affects the numbers through the gates. TM has a very tough job

Can't help feeling disappointed by this however ...... seems to be the usual feeling connected with CCFC

 

[Hobo]

The two defenders seem good acquisitions. Madison is still with us until the end of the season. Fleck is still here and not sold like some predicted.

If selling Maddison helped fund the defenders coming in and it results in promotion it will have been good business.

 

[torchomatic]

The Observer tweeting that the fee was around £2.5M but will rise to £9.5M with clauses.

 

[Otis]

The Observer tweeting that the fee was around £2.5M but will rise to £9.5M with clauses.

No, don't say that!! We will have a reverse meltdown!!

 

[covcity4life]

The Observer tweeting that the fee was around £2.5M but will rise to £9.5M with clauses.

well done sisu lol

 

[Moff]

The Observer tweeting that the fee was around £2.5M but will rise to £9.5M with clauses.

No one will believe it as it will just be made out to be Les Reid bollocks yadda yadda yadda

 

[covcity4life]

with mowbray and venus calling shots all season, i would imagine they told sisu what hes worth

i cant iamgine its 2-3.5m . sisu have looked they turned leaf for a while, perhaps they have managed to get a good deal for maddison

 

[henry the wasp]

Rising to £9.5m? First goalscorer on the sun?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Wow...just seen this news later than others. Not sure what to say really....

Hmmm, he was always going to go...just a question of when. I thought he'd be off in the Summer and the fact that he's here until then doesn't really change anything. The fee seems to be bother some people...we don't know the ins and outs of it to be fair so it's all pure conjecture. That said, I reckon 12/18 months ago, many on here wouldn't have been able to pick Maddison out of an identity parade...not sure I would've to be honest. To get at least a couple of million if that's what it is, plus future add ons, might prove to be a good bit of business as he's only played a handful of games.

The Dele Ali comparison someone mentioned earlier is a good one...Spurs paid £5m for someone who had played approx 100 games, Norwich have apparently paid circa £2m for someone who has played about 20 games...

And one man doesn't make a team. Finding competent midfielders is easier than competent goalscorers (which I know we'll have to find in the Summer). Maddison, for all his talent, isn't irreplaceable. Arguably, our best run this season was when he was out injured.

Onwards and upwards...TM really needs to prove his worth over the next 4 months. Sink or swim time. If we get promoted (either via the play offs or autos), he'll have a worked a miracle and will deserve the keys to the City. If not, well, it was a good ride for 6 months. Then time to fear for our club I reckon...

WM (the one who used to be the positive one....)

 

[Speedies_Chips]

He won't be missed. Bigi showed on Saturday that he can take over the free kick duties!! Oh..wait a minute....

 

[Nick]

Looks like the telegraph have jumped on it, demanding CCFC reveal how much it was.

 

[torchomatic]

I like when they say that the club can't hide behind the confidentiality of the deal. I'd like to see the CT print something that has a gagging order on it.

Looks like the telegraph have jumped on it, demanding CCFC reveal how much it was.

 

[Nick]

I like when they say that the club can't hide behind the confidentiality of the deal. I'd like to see the CT print something that has a gagging order on it.

Or the details of the Wasps deal...

 

[tom.stephens.5]

hi everyone,
there are many threads on madders so i hope i have the correct one and i also havent read all of this tread so i dont know if this may have already been covered so i apologise in advance if im saying the same stuff that someone may have already said, but speaking as a fan and also a a sports lawyer i want to address a few things.

firstly for the fans that are annoying with the club or madderz for leaving. i wasnt around for the days where we were in the premiership and my life has been supporting the club through the championsip and now league one, and i think what people arent taking into consideration is that not only are we a selling club, but every team in our league is a selling club, if there assets have the right talent. its obvious that teams in the premiership operate at the highest level and can attract the spoils of every lower league club that at the moment in time cant offer the player what he is currently getting. and any lower club when hearing a view of £1m will take the bid into consideration. and you cant blame a club for accepting an offer of around £3m at least. regardless of who the player is, to rake in that much money as a league 1 club is good business.

secondly how can someone blame madderz or any football or sports player to leave a job when more money is offered, what needs to be realised is that the life span of a footballer is much lower than the reasonable person, if you ask the question to yourself, could you afford to give up work when you are around 35-40? obviously the level of football is much higher also, and every footballer wants to play at the best of their ability, and that is for most british player playing in the premier league, and its apparent to everyone that he has a much higher chance of doing that with norwich than coventry.

finally as to regard the price of the sale. many sources have indicated the transaction could range from £2m-£9.5. yet this is all speculation, there will be no way of telling how much money was earned on the transfer until maybe five years after the initial sale. this is because of contract clauses that as everyone in football knows can vary to many different things, the club may never confirm all the clauses that was set in the contract, what seems most likely and happened in the deli ali transfer with spurs, is that there will be an initial fee of around 20-40% of the Net Price. and add ons that could include payment in money instalments over the span of 2-5 years, and other clauses such as, appearances, goals, assists,international call up, POTW, POTM, POTY, team finishing position and so on. therefore it is impossible to claim that the club have 'sold him for cheap' or £2m is ridiculous.

sorry again if everything ive said has already been discussed

 

[Ccfcisparks]

hi everyone,
there are many threads on madders so i hope i have the correct one and i also havent read all of this tread so i dont know if this may have already been covered so i apologise in advance if im saying the same stuff that someone may have already said, but speaking as a fan and also a a sports lawyer i want to address a few things.

firstly for the fans that are annoying with the club or madderz for leaving. i wasnt around for the days where we were in the premiership and my life has been supporting the club through the championsip and now league one, and i think what people arent taking into consideration is that not only are we a selling club, but every team in our league is a selling club, if there assets have the right talent. its obvious that teams in the premiership operate at the highest level and can attract the spoils of every lower league club that at the moment in time cant offer the player what he is currently getting. and any lower club when hearing a view of £1m will take the bid into consideration. and you cant blame a club for accepting an offer of around £3m at least. regardless of who the player is, to rake in that much money as a league 1 club is good business.

secondly how can someone blame madderz or any football or sports player to leave a job when more money is offered, what needs to be realised is that the life span of a footballer is much lower than the reasonable person, if you ask the question to yourself, could you afford to give up work when you are around 35-40? obviously the level of football is much higher also, and every footballer wants to play at the best of their ability, and that is for most british player playing in the premier league, and its apparent to everyone that he has a much higher chance of doing that with norwich than coventry.

finally as to regard the price of the sale. many sources have indicated the transaction could range from £2m-£9.5. yet this is all speculation, there will be no way of telling how much money was earned on the transfer until maybe five years after the initial sale. this is because of contract clauses that as everyone in football knows can vary to many different things, the club may never confirm all the clauses that was set in the contract, what seems most likely and happened in the deli ali transfer with spurs, is that there will be an initial fee of around 20-40% of the Net Price. and add ons that could include payment in money instalments over the span of 2-5 years, and other clauses such as, appearances, goals, assists,international call up, POTW, POTM, POTY, team finishing position and so on. therefore it is impossible to claim that the club have 'sold him for cheap' or £2m is ridiculous.

sorry again if everything ive said has already been discussed

Due to the fact you have called him "Madderz" i'm going to assume that you are less than 15 and therefore disregard anything you say

 

[Gazolba]

you cant blame a club for accepting an offer of around £3m at least. regardless of who the player is, to rake in that much money as a league 1 club is good business.

Whether it is 'good business' or not is debatable. It might have been better to hold on to him until the end of the season. His value can only go up unless he suffers a serious injury. And he might have been in the Championship next season - and so might Norwich.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

and you cant blame a club for accepting an offer of around £3m at least. regardless of who the player is, to rake in that much money as a league 1 club is good business.

So if we sold Lionel Messi for £3m that would be good business?

 

[tom.stephens.5]

he calls himself madders, and he is 19 so that ruins your theory. and also the £3m good business point was referring to a league one club. you must not understand football if you think that messi or someone with the football ability of messi would play in league one

 

[Ccfcisparks]

he calls himself madders, and he is 19 so that ruins your theory. and also the £3m good business point was referring to a league one club. you must not understand football if you think that messi or someone with the football ability of messi would play in league one

You don't get money based on what league you are in, you get money based on the quality of the player you are selling, you must not understand football if you think otherwise.

 

[tom.stephens.5]

that isnt true. yes the amount offered will be based on the quality of the player, but what league they are in is a seriously substantial part. refer me to a case where a league one team have turned down offers of over £5m. every league one team will be reluctant to accept bids in that region, like i said before for a league one club even a bid of £2m may be an offer that cant be refused. lets say the net sale was £5m. if he wasnt sold, when will be the next opportunity to make that much money? even promotion wont scratch the surface of that figure. football is a business and you must understand that

 

[Ccfcisparks]

that isnt true. yes the amount offered will be based on the quality of the player, but what league they are in is a seriously substantial part. refer me to a case where a league one team have turned down offers of over £5m. every league one team will be reluctant to accept bids in that region, like i said before for a league one club even a bid of £2m may be an offer that cant be refused. lets say the net sale was £5m. if he wasnt sold, when will be the next opportunity to make that much money? even promotion wont scratch the surface of that figure. football is a business and you must understand that

Gillingham turned down £4m yesterday for dack

 

[tom.stephens.5]

i think youll find the net price was around £2m. if you had an offer for john fleck (lets say he had a 2 year contract left, bradley dack is with gills till 2018) and the offer was

initial pay £500,000
monthly instalments over three years £1,000,000
addition payments £500,000 (appearances and so on) (which also may never be recieved)
would you take it?
i know this is all hypothetical and i have no idea on the clauses of the bid made for dack, but i highly doubt it would have been a straight up payment of £2m

 

[coop]

To be fair since maddison has come back from injury we have struggled only winning 3 games not blaming him just saying that maybe something changes in our style of play when he plays ie to many touches slows play down.But I would of prefered him to of just left giving us the chance to bring someone else in bigi is also a waste of a loan player send him back early.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Apologies I haven't read all 24 odd pages, but we are where we are and though I'm really disapointed that he's gone, I'm assuming he'd have been a free agent in the summer and would have jumped ship anyway...I can't see our lot ever being able to offer him a wage comparable with Norwich. They are, as much as it pains me to say, a "bigger" team that us at the moment.

We will always be a team that cashes in unfortunately, until we reach the promised land. It's a shame our owners keep pressing the panic button though, because it's catch 22 and we'll never get there if they don't take a chance and keep our better talent. We berate Robins for pissing off, but perhaps a similar lack of commitment behind the scenes was a big factor...if TM decided to leave, would we blame him at the moment?

I'm annoyed that Waggot and Fisher set a budget based on crowd numbers - we've exceeded that, hell TM was told he could increase the staff a bit, so its not as if we need to cash in to balance the books. I mean, we're still cash flow positive aren't we?

 

[rob9872]

I don't see us losing tempo, I think the bad run is more connected to turner getting injured and teams having watched the shelf utd gameplan of how to bully us out of games. Maddison imo is one of the most talented players we have seen at city. I rarely go overboard, in fact the reverse when there was hype on here over Connor Thomas, bigi, Gunnarson Dann and Fox. I genuinely believe this lad is special. If I'm honest I felt the same about Westwood who I thought would go on to be a great keeper and has done OK but been average realky, can't always get it right, but I see maddison going right to the top.

@Londonccfcfan @Evo1883 you're right mate