Time to face facts (9 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

If you factor in the amount of money and effort put into training Maddison since he was a kid and bringing him through the ranks I think this is a pretty poor deal. The timing especially seems a SISU design to stop Mogga spending any of the cash before the end of the window. Yes there are loans maybe still to come but we are up to the limit now unless we just send Bigi back... Walsall have rebuffed offers for all their talent and their gates average a third of ours...

We are over the loan limit. Well be at the limit if we send Bigi back. Just one reason in many why it's such a terrible deal. I'd genuinely rather we sent him back and used the loan space for a position we need.

 

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[Otis]

How do we know we won't sign a free agent?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

We are over the loan limit. Well be at the limit if we send Bigi back. Just one reason in many why it's such a terrible deal. I'd genuinely rather we sent him back and used the loan space for a position we need.

There was me thinking we'd got 2 much needed defenders in on the back of the deal.

 

[Del Boy 82]

We are over the loan limit. Well be at the limit if we send Bigi back. Just one reason in many why it's such a terrible deal. I'd genuinely rather we sent him back and used the loan space for a position we need.

What about all these old cov players like moussa who's available on a free people were pleading for yesterday.
Might open up a deal for the Dutch winger we had on trial too. Other doors will open

 

[Otis]

What about all these old cov players like moussa who's available on a free people were pleading for yesterday.
Might open up a deal for the Dutch winger we had on trial too. Other doors will open

Wasn't he contracted to a club though?

 

[ClarkeZ]

If you factor in the amount of money and effort put into training Maddison since he was a kid and bringing him through the ranks I think this is a pretty poor deal. The timing especially seems a SISU design to stop Mogga spending any of the cash before the end of the window. Yes there are loans maybe still to come but we are up to the limit now unless we just send Bigi back... Walsall have rebuffed offers for all their talent and their gates average a third of ours...

While I understand the point, I think its a little conspiracist.

I highly doubt it was a ploy to stop the money being spent. Norwich only came in at the last minute so a fast deal had to be made. That happens on deadline day, but we got the loan back so it could have been so much worse. Yes we have too many loanees but there are some that can definitely be dropped! Lets not start that discussion just yet.

There's no secret the financial dealings of the club are rocky, we know it but just maybe we might get that to spend in the summer. We've had more given to TM than anyone expected from the owners so far, its looking better than it has done for many years in my eyes. We haven't lost anyone for the promotion push and gained the defensive reinforcements we were desperate for. Its looking pretty good to me.

 

[idm1975]

How do we know we won't sign a free agent?

How do you know we will?

 

[Del Boy 82]

Wasn't he contracted to a club though?

Deal was for a free transfer telegraph reported

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Might have been worth £5m had we kept him another season.

Personally I think it'd have been worth the gamble waiting to see but...

Thomas didn't exactly bump his value up, once we let Liverpool off the hook of not buying him.

 

[stevefloyd]

He was and is a prospect... he helped us in a few games as did Tudgay etc etc so now he goes at the end of the season. We have survived albeit at a lower level since Dublin Huckerby Wilson et al have gone so good luck to the lad and Pusb

 

[stupot07]

Personally I think it'd have been worth the gamble waiting to see but...

Thomas didn't exactly bump his value up, once we let Liverpool off the hook of not buying him.

True on the flip side we could have gotten more for Wilson.

Would have been worth the gamble, we've sold too early.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

True on the flip side we could have gotten more for Wilson.

Possibly, although I think at the time Wilson was sold, his value was fair. It's as much Bournemouth who made him better there to add value.

(If we'd kept Wilson to his current injury, then we'd have got less!)

Selling on deadline day does look like we *needed* the cash for Maddison though, rather than *wanted* it... otherwise we could have auctioned off in pre-season.

Trying the positive spin, maybe that would have had a negative effect on season ticket sales however, whereas if we sign Fortune on a long term deal with some of the cash, people will only see that and not the source of the funding, so will flock to sign up to a season ticket...

 

[Esoterica]

Jesus Christ, some of the stuff coming out on this forum in the last 8 hours is unbelievable.

He was going, end of story. If it was yesterday or in the summer he was gone. No ifs, no buts. We have been talking about it all season and most of us agreed he should go with a loan back clause. Which we got.
So we have lost nothing, we have our player, who of course will keep playing hard. He wants to make a premier league side next season, he has to impress! Plus we're his home town team, there is still a thing called passion in this sport if you look closely enough!

On top of that, we got exactly what we needed with 2 big, albeit young, defenders to solidify the back 4.


If you came to me yesterday morning and said Madders goes with a loan back and we sign 2 big decent looking defenders for the remainder of the season, id be pretty chuffed. People need to get a fucking grip and realise this is a business, Madders would have snapped Norwich's hands off for that deal (as would every single one of us in that position, don't kid yourselves), so the club have to get what they can for him.

Sorry to stir it up, but some people here need to grow up and support us trying to get back into the automatics. We have all the tools now.

I knew he would go, and wish him well. Couldn't care less if he wanted to go or where he's ended up. For me though, I really don't like the way it's been handled: Undisclosed fee, last minute of the transfer window, no comment from the manager and no indication as to how that money is to be spent. This just invites negative speculation and as SISU have just started to rebuild bridges is something they could well do without. Is the money paying for the recent signings? I can't say I'm very happy if we sell a home grown starlet to pay for Hunt, Cole and Ramage's swansong. Is it going into a transfer fund for the summer and how much of that will be left if crowds drop back down to less than 10k as a result of supporter malaise? Are we going to be signing people with that money now? Well not for a fee as the window's closed, we've already got too many loans and so that leaves the free transfer market - picking up freebies in February is hardly an exciting prospect when trying to gain promotion.

And I disagree that we have all the tools for the job - we have little pace in the team, aside from an utterly disinterested looking Murphy and only 1 striker in the squad worthy of the name. And he's 18 and can't be expected to be consistent enough to lead the line on his own for a whole promotion winning season. If he misses a month or two with injury or even when the next round of U-19 internationals come along, then we're screwed. Add into that a significant portion of our squad are either in their first full season or haven't played for half a season (RCC, Lorentzen, Cole, Hunt, Murphy, Armstrong, Ramage etc) then I think it's not me that needs to grow up.

 

[ccfc1234]

No he wouldn't.

If he performed in the Championship in a skyblues shirt next season and a Prem club wanted him the fee would be 10m or MORE.
He is English and 19. If Wilson continued how he started in the prem for Bournmouth what would your valuation of he be now 7m!!!!!

 

[ccfc1234]

At 2m for what he has actually achieved in the game is a very good price, the choice was for our club to hold on and see if that value would increase. We chose to cash in early and only time will tell whether that was good value or not.

Personally, I have no affinity with any player as perhaps many years ago, I cheer them on when they play, but after all, they are have to move on at some stage and then say the appropriate words about new job etc.

i think we have been poor since he has been back and would swap him for Kent any day as we moved the ball quicker, his pirouettes slow it down to much for Armstrong and Murphy and eventually at a higher level, players will just see through the trickery. Looks great at L1 level though.

Players under 25 are not brought on what they have done but what they might go on to do. That thinking strengthens the younger the player. Maddison is very good and has vision most dont and rarely gets caught on the ball. His game will look better with better players and like the club, you will look slightly misguided in the long run.

 

[ClarkeZ]

I knew he would go, and wish him well. Couldn't care less if he wanted to go or where he's ended up. For me though, I really don't like the way it's been handled: Undisclosed fee, last minute of the transfer window, no comment from the manager and no indication as to how that money is to be spent. This just invites negative speculation and as SISU have just started to rebuild bridges is something they could well do without. Is the money paying for the recent signings? I can't say I'm very happy if we sell a home grown starlet to pay for Hunt, Cole and Ramage's swansong. Is it going into a transfer fund for the summer and how much of that will be left if crowds drop back down to less than 10k as a result of supporter malaise? Are we going to be signing people with that money now? Well not for a fee as the window's closed, we've already got too many loans and so that leaves the free transfer market - picking up freebies in February is hardly an exciting prospect when trying to gain promotion.

And I disagree that we have all the tools for the job - we have little pace in the team, aside from an utterly disinterested looking Murphy and only 1 striker in the squad worthy of the name. And he's 18 and can't be expected to be consistent enough to lead the line on his own for a whole promotion winning season. If he misses a month or two with injury or even when the next round of U-19 internationals come along, then we're screwed. Add into that a significant portion of our squad are either in their first full season or haven't played for half a season (RCC, Lorentzen, Cole, Hunt, Murphy, Armstrong, Ramage etc) then I think it's not me that needs to grow up.

We always knew that the chances of the money going right back in are small. All we can do is speculate as to where the money goes. What are the chances the club brings enough in every week to pay the players' wages? Is the gross income over the year enough to be self sufficient to that extent. Possibly, possibly not. It might well be that the money is used to cover the existing wage bill. We may get it next window, they may pocket the lot and continue on the vain attempt at frees and loans which would be shit. But its all speculation.

What im trying to say, and have been all day, is that too many people on here are crying over the issue, saying the season is over, we have no chance anymore, and generally acting as if the club has just kicked itself over the edge of a cliff.
Whereas, from the way I see the situation, the inevitable has happened, the business heads at the top saw a late offer come in, multiple millions of £s on the table and made the decision to take it. I truly hope we see it, in the summer we can bring more in.

As for the rest of the season, if TM can get the team to gel again, we have as good a squad as anyone in our league. We have proven time and time again this season we can rip teams apart, including those at the top, wigan and gillingham come to mind. And all of those players are still here. Plus defensive reinforcements. I see no reason they cant do it again. We have a major form problem right now and a lack of some confidence, but that can change really fast. Hopefully the new faces will do just that. We have needed to bring players in to cover injuries and a lack of depth. It will take a few weeks to bring them together as a team, but thats what TM is paid to do. We need to get behind TM and the players and support them now, do what we can to help them start to push back up the table. A bleak, pessimistic group of fans who think our season is over and cant possibly get back up the table will do the sum total of fuck all to help the team.

 

[Gazolba]

<snip> All we can do is speculate as to where the money goes. <snip>.

It goes toward the wages of the seven players we just signed. Bigi, Ramage, Hunt, Lorentzen, Rose, Cargill and Stephens.

 

[Gazolba]

<snip> I really don't like the way it's been handled: Undisclosed fee, last minute of the transfer window, no comment from the manager and no indication as to how that money is to be spent.<snip>

From SISU's point of view it is none of your business how the money is going to be spent. When you buy a pair of pants from a store, do you expect them to tell you what they are going to do with the money you gave them?

 

[lifeskyblue]

But buying a season ticket is not like buying a pair of pants. I'm investing for a season. I would think if that money is not spent wisely or transparently then I would run the risk of that season ticket holder not renewing next year.
If they want support (and revenue) to grow then fans need a successful team and a company they trust.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[italiahorse]

But buying a season ticket is not like buying a pair of pants. I'm investing for a season. I would think if that money is not spent wisely or transparently then I would run the risk of that season ticket holder not renewing next year.
If they want support (and revenue) to grow then fans need a successful team and a company they trust.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also supporting CCFC is for life so they could just take the pi55 and we would still support. (They are and I am)
I can't suddenly support Villa like a mate of mine.
I can however still support and just listen on the radio.

At times like this, you realise we are at the bottom of the food chain and Sisu are just tossing us scraps.
They need to move on and let someone else have a go.

 

[oakey]

Speak for yourselves, not everyone is motivated by money.
Having said that I have no grudge against Maddison. Footballers in the modern era are money orientated. Just saying not everyone is.
My grievance is not with the player. I don't even mind us selling players for whatever amount. The grievance for me is twofold
1) Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we told the budget is based on income from gates and we have no need to sell?
2) 100% of the money should therefore be spent on the team. I get this all clubs are selling clubs line but not all clubs fail to REPLACE the player sold. We still haven't replaced Callum Wilson.
We are being lied to I suspect. Which is it, the club needs to sell to survive or we don't need to sell but our owners want to pocket some cash?

 

[Gazolba]

But buying a season ticket is not like buying a pair of pants

True, but when you buy a season ticket you are not ignorant of the fact that there will be changes in the squad over the course of the season. Whether you renew or not next year could depend on many factors.
Even without Maddison (who we still have till the end of the season) we now have a much stronger squad with the two new defenders than we had before the transfer window. What happens at the end of the season all depends on whether we get promoted or not.

 

[stupot07]

Speak for yourselves, not everyone is motivated by money.
Having said that I have no grudge against Maddison. Footballers in the modern era are money orientated. Just saying not everyone is.
My grievance is not with the player. I don't even mind us selling players for whatever amount. The grievance for me is twofold
1) Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we told the budget is based on income from gates and we have no need to sell?
2) 100% of the money should therefore be spent on the team. I get this all clubs are selling clubs line but not all clubs fail to REPLACE the player sold. We still haven't replaced Callum Wilson.
We are being lied to I suspect. Which is it, the club needs to sell to survive or we don't need to sell but our owners want to pocket some cash?

Assuming the current budget is using all or most of the allowable 60% we would only be able to use 60% of the fee received on the playing budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Gazolba]

<snip>.
My grievance is not with the player. I don't even mind us selling players for whatever amount. The grievance for me is twofold
1) Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we told the budget is based on income from gates and we have no need to sell?
2) 100% of the money should therefore be spent on the team. I get this all clubs are selling clubs line but not all clubs fail to REPLACE the player sold. We still haven't replaced Callum Wilson.
We are being lied to I suspect. Which is it, the club needs to sell to survive or we don't need to sell but our owners want to pocket some cash?

We've just signed seven players (Bigi, Ramage, Hunt, Lorentzen, Rose, Cargill, Stephens). Where do you think their wages are coming from?

 

[Esoterica]

We've just signed seven players (Bigi, Ramage, Hunt, Lorentzen, Rose, Cargill, Stephens). Where do you think their wages are coming from?

From the insurance money on Reda Johnson and the cash generated by being over the required 11,000 fans every home match

 

[ccfc1234]

Also supporting CCFC is for life so they could just take the pi55 and we would still support. (They are and I am)
I can't suddenly support Villa like a mate of mine.
I can however still support and just listen on the radio.

At times like this, you realise we are at the bottom of the food chain and Sisu are just tossing us scraps.
They need to move on and let someone else have a go.

Dont know him personally but the second word would head and the first rhymes with cobb

 

[pete212]

For me this transfer is not about Maddison.
It's about the club, and the ambition of the club.

Let's say we get promoted, and perhaps Norwich get relegated
How the hell are we going to compete in the Championship without the like of Maddison..?
Where's the forward thinking?
Or maybe it's just let's swim around in League 1 and hope for a miracle.

Same old SISU. Don't know what they're doing.
I predict Mowbray won't stick around too long

 

[clint van damme]

For me this transfer is not about Maddison.
It's about the club, and the ambition of the club.

Let's say we get promoted, and perhaps Norwich get relegated
How the hell are we going to compete in the Championship without the like of Maddison..?
Where's the forward thinking?
Or maybe it's just let's swim around in League 1 and hope for a miracle.

Same old SISU. Don't know what they're doing.
I predict Mowbray won't stick around too long

Mate. If Norwich get relegated they'll have tens of millions of pounds of parachute money, that's what the league 1 promoted teams will have to contend with. James Maddison is an irrelevance.

As for forward thinking, we were never good at that long before SISU came, they've just carried on the tradition.

 

[Gazolba]

For me this transfer is not about Maddison.
It's about the club, and the ambition of the club.

Let's say we get promoted, and perhaps Norwich get relegated
How the hell are we going to compete in the Championship without the like of Maddison..?
Where's the forward thinking?
Or maybe it's just let's swim around in League 1 and hope for a miracle.

Same old SISU. Don't know what they're doing.
I predict Mowbray won't stick around too long

Totally agree with your first two sentences. However, first we have to get promoted. And we needed to sell Maddison to be able to afford two England International Premiership defenders to shore up our defence, which has been leaking goals. Once we get promoted will be the time to deal with how we compete there. We may well not compete and come straight back down.

 

[chiefdave]

two England International Premiership defenders

Think that description is pushing it a bit.

Cargill has 0 PL appearances and 7 U20 appearances, Stephens has 0 PL appearances and 1 U21 appearance.