letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Right or wrong come on Nick you are on about politicians and hedgefund owners here.
Mean while back in court (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter sotonskyblue
- Start date
Right or wrong come on Nick you are on about politicians and hedgefund owners here.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why did the council HAVE to bail out a private company at all?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
You can spin it all you like.
I will stick with what I am saying for me personally if I know the Government will be paying out not the Council I may strangely find myself wanting SISU to win. Only if it allows them to sell up and go or manage the club properly like they didn't when we were in the championship when they took over
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Well if you don't know that by now
Nick
Administrator
Personally whether the government or Coventry pay id rather the actual outcome wether they have done anything wrong or not. Whether that's it being thrown out or sisu winning, either way.
Surely you would only want sisu to win if that's what actually happened and it was wrong? Rather than just because the government would have to pay?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Very good question you know the answer to, because they and a local charity bailed out the football club in the first place.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
You don't seem to understand what I am saying. Whoever wins is correct either the council can use the money in that way or they can't.
If the compo in such circumstances is to be paid by the council I hope the judges find in their favour.
If it's the Government who have to pay up. I may actually finding myself wanting the judges to find in SISU's favour.
Not sure what you don't understand about what I am saying.
Nick
Administrator
Surely you want the judges to find the truth and if it was actually right or wrong no matter who has to pay?
You are right though, I don't understand. It's like you want somebody to be judged based on the punishment rather then if they actually did something wrong or not.
Samo
Well-Known Member
So you don't really give a shit about who is right or wrong... only who pays the compo.
Nick
Administrator
It's strange, as if it's anything as long as the council don't look bad.
Samo
Well-Known Member
It is... very strange indeed.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Or is it as long as Sisu don't look bad?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
What they decide will be the truth.
I am telling you what I hope they decide. Depending on what happens afterwards.
You probably won't admit this but I think you hope they find is SISU's favour. However if they find in the council's favour you will accept that.
I hoped they would find in the council's favour. However if they decide the council can't use the money in that way and the Government will pay up. If I could know that it will pan out that way ( which I can't) I may find myself hoping they find in SISU's favour
Samo
Well-Known Member
Grow a pair of bollocks man and decide who you think is RIGHT, regardless of the consequences.
Nick
Administrator
I hope the truth comes out and it's ruled on if anything was done wrong or not. If they haven't done anything wrong then they haven't done anything wrong, if they have they have.
If I thought sisu would get millions and get us to the champions league I'd be all for it, but I don't.
Nick
Administrator
Is anybody saying that?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I take it you know whether lending this money is state aid or not? Not sure why they are wasting their time with three lords??
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
It depends if someone wants to spin everything you say to make it seem like that's what your saying.
At least have the balls to admit you would like the three lords to say the council provided state aid. As you say if they say it, it will be truth but you can't tell me that you don't have a preference over what they decide
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
If the Government pay up why doesn't that make the Council look bad the decision still goes against them.
Spin spin spin. I have my own little Spin Doctor spinning whatever I say. I am privileged
Nick
Administrator
I'm not an expert on state aid so I can't say wether it is or isn't. I haven't commented on wether they are right or wrong about state aid because I don't know. I can still say I think the council have done wrong in regards to the club, wasps etc from things that have come out during it though.
I don't want sisu to get compensation if the council haven't done anything wrong by law etc with state aid.
If it's found it wasn't state aid it doesn't mean they havent done anything shady, likewise with sisu if it's found out was state aid.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well they clearly did and in most circumstances they would have an issue.
However the company bringing the case contributed to the decision to provide the aid.
That has always been the problem here.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That's an absolute crock of shit. If it's illegal state aid it's illegal state aid. SISU's behavior isn't on trial (so to speak) the councils is.
You're just clearly not going to accept the result if it goes the councils way so you're making up excuses as to not only why it will but also why it shouldn't. Basically you're not interested in truth and justice you just don't want to be proved wrong.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Do you mean in morality or on a technicality?
Morality both in the wrong. But one caused the other to happen. On the technical side then I lean towards CCC as the other judges have agreed with them so far. And I have a feeling that if the judges in this one were going to side with SISU they would have adjourned the case with central government maybe becoming involved.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
So big Balls who do you think was RIGHT?
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Nick they don't need to say anything.
Funny but the ones that believe Sisu are right are to ashamed to admit it.
Why is that?
I thought the Council were right, and yes I maybe wrong but at least I stand by what I think.
Won't be the first time I have been wrong.
Others just can't stand the thought that they have backed the wrong horse,
Will I feel bad if I am wrong.
Well truthfully NO.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
I guess not only would they have to prove that they lost millions but also that it was the fault of the council. I don't think they're going to find it easy to prove that they were forced to move us to Sixfields which would I suspect be a large part of a claim. I would be surprised if they could prove that they had no lower offers from ACL to stay at the Ricoh. I'm sure that offers will have been made and the council would just produce them if needed.
That then heads into would we have been better off financially accepting an offer and staying at the Ricoh. If we would have been better off at the Ricoh from a money point of view can they really argue convincingly that any losses weren't self inflicted? Financial projections for our stay at Sixfields proved to be a bit optimistic didn't they? There was the (much ridiculed) likely attendance in the thousands claimed by Tim at the hotel meetings. In reality we know that the gate didn't reach his lower estimate which must have put a dent in the bank balance.
I suppose they might claim that they didn't feel comfortable with staying in the Ricoh but again that still might look like their choice.
Specs WT-R75
Well-Known Member
Their argument is going to be based on CCC propping up a company (ACL) that would have had to go into Liquidation/Administration - and Sisu would have been the ones in the driving seat to take over - this is probably where JR2 comes in as well.
I think any claims that the points deduction cost them anything are spurious at best given that even with the 10 points back we wouldn't have got in the playoffs either year...
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Problem there is that history has proven that to be incorrect. They clearly weren't in the driving seat and there was more than one driving seat. Plus through their own actions SISU's vehicle was stuck in reverse. Everything they done took them further away from the Ricoh both metaphorically and in reality.
Win or lose I can't see them getting anything out of this and JR2 sounds like CCC would be better off saving the cost of lawyers and not fighting it because the recompense for them is getting more interest on the loan and central government picking up any costs (just the cost of legal representation would be my guess) SISU successfully claim.
Specs WT-R75
Well-Known Member
Didn't the judge question in the JR the fact that CCC didn't "pay" anything for ACL - Yes we know there was a shortfall from the project costs which were cleared by selling the lease to ACL for 21m. The council then lending back 14.4m to repay the mortgage... before taking 13m+ from Wasps, plus another 2.7m + 1m. Seems to me the council has done rather well out of this whole regeneration project.... Only the charity has actually lost money in ACL...
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It's a real shame for the charity on many levels. I don't doubt that they got involved with the very best of intentions and didn't deserve to lose a penny. But the biggest shame is that a bond between the club and the Higgs family going back generations that only ever tried to serve the club has been lost now presumably for ever.
Specs WT-R75
Well-Known Member
They _would_ have been in the driving seat if there was a Liquidation/Administration event...there wouldn't have been enough time for Wasps to get their deal together, and even if they did if it was a straight up bidding war between CCFC and Wasps I can't imagine there being ANY support for Wasps either in the city or from their own fans.
Regarding JR2 - I see your point of view, however Wasps probably have an indemnity clause against the council hence why they need to fight it. The JR2 stinks more to me than JR1, not from a CCFC point of view, but we have a stadium worth next to nothing washing it's face, that has 25m+ increase in its value for the price of a 1m lease extension. Whatever your stance in this whole sorry affair, it looks extremely poor value for money for the tax payers in the city.
Like I said above though, any "state aid" penalty wasps pay, is probably covered by an indemnity against the council...
Hobo
Well-Known Member
You won't be standing there alone.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
I knew I had something wrong with my thinking. Anyway there's Port Vale to think about today rather than this courtroom rubbish.
Specs WT-R75
Well-Known Member
It's looking awfully quiet at Vale Park... there's nobody here.......